That's not true. There's no arguably about it, Walton must have been the worst keeper in the league. He was beyond terrible. Absymal. Words struggle to define how bad he was.

If anyone thinks Walton and Williams are as good as Raya and Bauer I want some of whatever they are having! Williams at centre back only looks decent in comparison to his shambles at left back. He is probable top league 1, bottom 6 championship standard at centre back. Whilst not doing any of the terrible stuff he does at lb he doesn't do much good. And as for Walton? More errors since lockdown than Raya in an entire season, and that's not counting any of the pre Christmas clangers. Nor does he produce worldie saves like Raya. No way is he remotely near Raya's class or ability. Which isn't bigging up Raya but saying how poor Walton is.

Of course we need a centre mid. Outside of Travis our choices are - an aging has been who plays well one in five and atrociously the rest, can only last 60 minutes at best, and is comfortably the wrong side of 30. - an absolute sick note who can get injured from a nasty stare, who only plays well when a new contract is needed and has often replicated the invisible Man with his performances. - an unproven 20 odd year old who has missed much of the last 2 years with injury. Regardless of what that says about him being a sicknote it can't have helped his development at a key age. Downing may or may not also sign but again at 35 (36?) is not the long term solution and has to cover a myriad of other positions too. So yes we need a midfielder. Problem is we need a keeper and defenders more. The midfield options are poor but at least there are people who can play there. Whereas we literally have no keepers (although there were question marks over whether we ever did this season!) and we have very few defensive options. So much as we need a centre mid the needs defensively, especially a keeper, is an even greater priority. As an aside it shows what a load of bull this whole slow build is that we need so many players three seasons in. Worryingly an argument can be made for.needing a striker in much the same way as a centre mid. What an absolute balls up of the last year or two for us to need so many players!

Can't really add to this really. Had he been used better in the championship as a squad player I think people would remember him more fondly.

Saw the lad break onto the scene at Carlisle who raved about him. Had to say from what I saw he looked promising but nowhere near our level. Turns out I was wrong on both counts. Admittedly a lot of that is down to Venkys damage to the club, but a lot of that is also credit to Graham who made him a good championship level striker. Some of his play for us was really intelligent and he always looked and played like a "proper" striker. He held the ball up and brought players into the game and was a focal point for our attacks. For the majority of his time with us he played well and was crucial in us getting promoted- so thanks for the quality and consistency Danny! This season age may be catching up with him but given some of the dollopers we have played up front I can't help but think we didn't give him a fair crack at the whip and he would have offered more. Perhaps enough to make those extra few points up... Thing is despite knowing his age we haven't really replaced him £12 million on, albeit Armstrong has moved central which has lessened the blow somewhat. Given we need to replace him and being lumbered with two expensive donkeys its no surprise he has been let go. We need all the finance we can to replace him and address the other squad issues. All in all during Venkys reign of terror one of the more positive memories and one of the crown jewels of our promotion season. I'll remember him positively which I can't say of too many players of late.

Agree with this. To not have Brad on the list would be daft as he was immense for us for many years and a model pro. Don't begrudge him leaving for financial difficulties or dislike of Ince as he didn't move prior to this and gave many years good service. The second tier list is a more interesting conundrum. What would any modern player have to do to get it? Unlikely to be trophys anytime soon or good players giving us lengthy service. Hughes would perhaps get on the second list for me albeit more for his management of us. Think had Berg done better as a manager he would have been definite on the list - involved in both our successful periods as a player, and a decent run as manager may have been enough to make him a legend rather than soured his legacy.

Having recently got back in touch with a friend who is a Rovers fan but not on here i was shocked by how he and his other Rovers mates like TM. Decent football being cited as one thing, honest man of integrity another. Mind you they were also grateful for Venkys support the last few years! I do wonder if we generally lost those fans who are critical/demand higher standards from the Venkys fiasco. The Facebook group and my conversation the other day seem to bare this out.

That Rev is the key question. Anyone decent and TM has to pack his bags. If they don't- and the last 3 incumbents don't make me confident that they do - then we are royally stuffed.

I think 3 years and it always being a problem suggests the common denominator is with the manager. You are criticising our previous keeper after the season that Walton has had??? Don't get me wrong I think Raya had his faults but Walton has proved Raya is 10 times the goalkeeper Walton is. That's not necessarily a statement on Raya's quality but Walton. Seems odd for you to lament our previous keeper when the current one has proved infinitely worse. That said I agree a more solid defence helps. Don't disagree with any of this. Sounds like a good shout. I'd keep Downing if we can afford him but there are some much more pressing needs.

Luton, Barnsley, Huddersfield, Stoke and Boro all stayed up. What they all have in common is they changed their manager. Four of them went for ones with recent success (unsure on the Barnsley chap). Don't get me wrong I thought Wigan and Charlton were unfortunate to go down, so I am not saying that a new manager is the only factor by a long shot. Luton were massively helped out by playing us last and a couple of the teams had a lot of quality in the squads. But a few of these teams did look dead and buried until they changed the manager and that shows the impact that the right man can have. It shows the importance of a new broom and fresh ideas and not letting things go stale. That said as far as I am aware none of these clubs were limited to a single agency when appointing managers and have owners who at least vaguely know what they are doing/care, so the comparison isn't perfect.

Thing is we've struggled with this for 3 years now. It was a challenge even in league 1. We can't break teams down but that's not at all just down to Dack's absence as the last 2 and a half seasons prior to his injury have shown.

Even then I feel it would take Venkys a few months to notice...

There are a few phrases in here when you are defending TM that expose his weaknesses. Needing the majority of a back line suggests TM has messed up his recruitment and isn't building at all. Walton being listed amongst the likes of Fettis etc as a defence indicates how bad he must be to need this to garner a positive comparison. (And I'd say he is just as bad as those listed but either way damning with faint praise.) Plenty of room for improvement - the squad is either massively underperforming or we have brought badly. Either way it doesn't reflect well on the manager. See even when putting the case forward as to why he is a decent manager it highlights his deficiencies. That said I spoke to a couple of Rovers mates who aren't on here who are both pro TM "our football is much better to watch," and Venkys (?!?!) "they haven't let us go into administration" so I do think the majority of the fan base is still supportive of him and the current set up.

They're letting off fireworks round our way celebrating Leeds promotion. Perhaps I can return the favour in 12 months when Leeds drop back down. Play offs very hard to predict. Brentford are on a downer. Fulham don't have the manager for me. And Cardiff and Swansea are pretty average sides (heck we beat Cardiff recently which shows they aren't all that...) Very hard to call. And all teams will feel they have a decent shout of doing it - making it more frustrating that we aren't one of those teams...

That's them knowing the plan? My word, them not knowing it is going to be mighty scary. I'm not exactly senior in management (in my field), however I'm fairly confident that it's management 101 that when your employees/subordinates are arsing it up you say or do something...

Yeah. I mean I couldn't help but look at the Swansea and Cardiff games thinking that could have been us. It's eating me up a bit. TM as you say doesn't seem bothered by how badly we are doing whatsoever. Not answering to someone in any job is a guarantee of problems occurring and it's one of the many reasons why Venkys are still killing the club. The other thing that annoys me about it, is knowing he has the job till kingdom come, he isn't using that to his advantage at all. Most managers have to scrap the long term vision for more immediate or at least medium term results. TM doesn't and yet we still seem no further forward then when we first came up squad wise. We need the best part of a back line. Our striking options are generally poor. We've a number of aging players. There doesn't seem any building whatsoever.

Madness is the word. I agree about the best league btw. I am however a bit saddened that the ugly side of football ended up relegating two teams. I don't really get what's gone on at Wigan (nor looked too deeply tbf) but it seems like any sort of fit and proper test, and such a situation doesn't happen. Likewise had the Charlton key players not decided to down tools to protect moves in the summer, they would have had a better chance of staying up. So selfish players and corrupt owners and a negligent EFL seem to have had more influence than I am comfortable with in determining the table. All that said it was a fantastic night of entertainment. Every game practically and every goal meant something. Even the "meaningless" games had plenty of goals in them. When was the premier league was that exciting?

If he can survive no wins in 11 or 12 then there's no way he is going after 3 wins in 13. Poor do. Have to say TM hasn't looked convincing at all of late, and if a few key players go, it's going to be a rough one next year.

The annoying thing is neither looked that good and both started at the restart in a similar place to us (U think). That they've got playoffs and we faded away is so frustrating.

All change again with Brentford and Stoke getting goals... Great to see Gally in the goals. It's almost as if when he's in and around the penalty area he does better...

Yep, Same playing of favourites, faffing about with formations and players out of position. Mulgrew and Graham a shadow of their former selves, needing 3 of the 5 from the back line, having 3 strikers who couldn't score in a brothel, as well as a number of other aging players needing replacement. Cracking progress that is. .

Tons of unpredictability. Forest equalise to strengthen their hold on the play offs. QPR equalise to throw 2nd place into doubt. It's a crazy unpredictable league, and best for excitement. In fact the most predictable thing is Rovers rolling over against lower ranked opposition. Who didn't see this coming? And it's terrible that this is such an obvious outcome.

Blimey didn't realise how tight the play off situation was either. A goal for Swansea and Forest are out of the play offs. Shows that there were a couple of catch-able teams had we kept plugging at it.

Half of it is. And that's our biggest problem...

Think you can see it two ways really. On one hand we are solidly mid table and have been in no danger of relegation. And that is with obvious redeemable errors, such as picking favourites rather than on form and shifting formations and playing players out of positions. And we have some utterly crap players, such as a keeper who has cost us games we weren't looking like losing. If we are mid table with those handicaps, without them you think we should be looking up, The flip side is we do all these errors repeatedly, have 4 non scoring strikers, and will need 7+ players replacing due to age and loan returns before anything else is done to the team which doesn't at all bode well for next season.