Well it can't be under wraps and known can it? Under wraps means not known and people don;t have the information, known means people, well know and have that information. They either have it or they don't. Either its accessible or it isn't. It can't be both. As for transfers there's a lot of work needed unless we want to rely on our youngsters which seems very risky imo. Chapman and Warton are very unproven at this level. We've lost a ton of players of varying quality and we are badly short on numbers. Some positions aren't filled, some positions are an injury away from not being covered. Sure, there's time to rectify it, but it doesn't fill you with confidence. An injury to any one of our best players leaves us in a lot of trouble. How we are in this situation after three year's of building a team is beyond me. The lack of medium term planning is appalling.

You were doing ok at putting your point across until this. I mean where to start with it? For 7 million you need more than something we are starting to see. 7 million should buy you a good championship quality player. 7 million was the majority of our budget and pushed us towards FFP. He has had 2 seasons of failure. 2 goals, both in dead rubbers, is an absymal return. His performances have been poor too. And what are we starting to see? Again it's not top championship quality or even a solid championship player. Just someone who might not be absolute dross. Also when are we seeing this? Friendlies Vs lower league opposition and Doncaster (where he also missed an open net.) I'll be honest I'm not seeing much. I get you wanting to defend TM and highlight the positives he has done, but to use Bereton as one of them is plain daft. He's been a terrible signing in any sense of the word - cost, performances, goals. In trying to defend TM you do what you accuse others of, not being objective. Heck, there are a number of good things TM has done, but Bereton isn't one pretending he is does come across as ill judged and lacking objectivity and appears from your perspective that TM can't do any wrong.

That's a good point, thanks Joe. I think my point was based on seeing a few Gally horror shows wide right and the false 9 experiment (and crossing issues in general). You are right the demand for him to go forward is there, and perhaps more opportunity than I thought. However I still don't think the set up at times has matched up to the demands - linking up with Gally, who to aim for in the box etc.

Well I'm not sure about the logic behind ignoring/dismissing a point that illustrates the weakness of your argument because it has been regularly used. (In fact this debate has probably in part added to it's usage, but there we go...) Two key reasons why I think you are way off the mark on this, aside from the assist nonsense. Think it's clear as day you can contribute to goals without making the final pass and it is churlish to ignore that. Firstly the team isn't set up to help Nayambe improve offensively. Let's say he gets to the byline and whips in a cross, who will be on the end of it. Armstrong is small, Bereton is poor in the air, as was Samuel. Loads of our players don't really attack the ball in the penalty area. And when we played with a false 9 then there's no one even vaguely meant to be in that position. You could have Duff and Ripley whipping them in and it would be to no avail if there's no one to get on the end of them. Not only that but a key part of an offensive full back is working well with your wide midfielder/wide attacker. Again, Nayambe has little support here. The best example I can remember of this is Emerton and Bentley. When Bentley got the ball Emerton would bomb past on the overlap, stretching the defence, leaving the opposition vulnerable either to Bentley cutting inside further or the pass out wide and cross in from Emerton. Can remember getting excited every time those two got the ball in those dangerous areas. Anyway the point of this is it only works if you have a solid wide midfielder, one who can dribble, cut inside, wait for the overlap and exploit the situation. In the likes of Gally, Samuel and Bereton last season out wide, that clearly wasn't the case. Whether it's lack of ability or nous is debatable, but there wasn't anyone who linked well with the right back offensively. So it's a bit harsh to blame the lack of attacking ability all upon Nayambe. Like TM it seems he is a convenient scapegoat for team failings. The second reason even more crucially is that being able to attack well is a bonus for a full back. Before you say agree to disagree - which really is saying let's forget the relative merits of different positions - considering for a moment most of Rovers full backs over time. How many of them have been attacking? Not too many that I can think of bar Emerton. It's not their main role. Further evidence of this can be seen when Bennett plays right back (something I distinctly remember you championing because he was better offensively). All that offensive "prowess" is offset by his defensive weaknesses. Why, because defending is a bigger part of the job. First and foremost a defender has to be able to defend. If they can't do that then they will do more damage than they will benefit. It's why Amoruso (admittedly a CB) was such a liability. He would get us a goal but cost us a fair few too. Or Steven Reid at RB. Great engine, cracking shot but not the positional sense to play there. Defenders bread and butter is defending and that is their first responsibility for them. Just look at who is trying to stop the wide forwards when they attack and you see it in practice. Actually, I said two things but there's a few more, sorry. You also need to consider we ain't in the market for the Robinsons and Alexander Arnold's of this world. All championship players have weaknesses and limitations, the manager isn't going to find the next Carlos and Cafu at full back. And like with all championship players a manager needs to maximise their strengths and limit their weaknesses. To suddenly change this reality for Nayambe seems a little unusual. You aren't crying out for Lenihen to go because he isn't a ball playing centre back or for Armstrong because of his lack of defensive work. Dack can only really play in the hole effectively and these are our best players and they have limitations. I haven't even started on our strikers! But given this is the reality for championship players why does this criteria go out the window for Nayambe? His main strengths are much greater than his weaknesses, so he is worth his place in the team. Given you defended Walton for so long, whose weaknesses outweighed his strengths I do wonder how Nayambe gets such a poor deal. It's also worth on a final note recognising our key issue is leaking goals not scoring them. It surprises me we can have such a collection of misfits and Armstrong up front and yet score a decent number but we do. The issue is keeping them out. Surely this again dictates we need defenders who can defend and this is where our priority lies rather in more attacking threats. So yeah, in short I think you are judging Nayambe way out of line. Outside of following TM I can't really see any reason to have him as a scapegoat.

Great post. Now sometimes you have to have a player with a dicey record injury wise to get a talent who would otherwise be out of your reach. Bellamy was one of those players for us. But it's all a question of balance - one or two is a manageable risk especially if adding otherwise unattainable quality but 5 or 6 and it's very worrying, especially with a thin squad. It's the aquaddies who are like that who I would move on. We were miles better with Lenihen in the team so wouldn't get rid despite his record (plus we have no defenders) but the likes of Evans and Williams who are only mediocre when they are playing at their best can do one imo. Waste of wages and a strain on the squad.

What I was trying to say but said much more eloquently. In any walk of life I'm not sure this is an employer/situation you want to be in!

If I were Kipre I wouldn't be wanting to join West Brom. Sure the money will be much better and that is a factor, but the fact they haven't snapped him up, even as a squad player speaks volumes. It should tell him that he really isn't that wanted there and even if they don't get other targets then the lack of enthusiasm indicates they probably want someone else and will keep looking so his playing chances at West Brom don't look good at all. Of course modern players take the wages then get loaned out when they can't get games so it probably won't worry him too much. But this way round does stunt your career and have periods of inactivity and a lot less stability. It would be much better for his career to have a solid year or two with Rovers and then move on to bigger things.

No, but not sure knowing a schedule is a prerequisite for posting. And thinking talking about players and who should play is tenuous in a match day thread is a tad pedantic at best, obsessive at worst.

Conversation moved on to talking about one of our players - one who should have played in the game - and their merits. It's hardly a major digression into the state of the economy or how to play chess. It's almost as if they are linked...

Again I seem a tad bemused by this done to death on strikers thing so move on, as am fairly confident you mention the Nayambe attacking issue every time he is dropped or treated shabbily by our infallible manager. The corner you are backing yourself into is totally daft. Wilcox only played 27 games - terrible stat which ignores how many whipped in crosses resulted in goals, even if there was a bit of a scuffle first. You totally ignore the point being made. Everyone saw, the team even said ,the plan was get it wide then cross it in, yet you try to wiggle out of the assists aren't that accurate issue by saying how few games Wilcox played. The reason people keep bringing up the strikers not scoring issue is because you focus on a minor part of Nayambe's role and are comparatively less critical of a major part of our strikers game. It comes across as hypocritical.

I think it's because Chaddy has an aversion to not towing the party line rather than trying to be right. It looks like TM doesn't rate him (and has treated him.absymally for 3 seasons now) so to support the club he rips on Nayambe. Have to say basics first with defenders - they need to defend. The clue is in the name. Assists etc are all well and good - even if they can be counted - but first and foremost keeping the ball out of the net. Nayambe has athleticism that cannot be taught, is defensively canny and any other manager would be delighted to have him in a championship team. Problem is he is a scapegoat for all our issues - wide strikers who prefer to be inside and Mr Bennett who can't hold down a position. If we lose him as well for a minimal fee it will be another TM cock up.

Didn't see the game so hard to comment but there are a few worries to me from the game - what I have heard and read. Firstly no Nayambe bothers me as he is a good championship full back. Sure defensive only but that's first and foremost what we need. Shame if he is forced out as it makes the defence even weaker. Needing to score 3 to win and Bereton missing a sitter seems all too familiar. JRC really should be further forward than full back. He can do it but not his natural position imo. Not sure how that formation accommodates Dack. Not am I convinced we shouldn't be building a team around him. The squad seems really thin and weak. A decent first 11 but after that it gets a bit grim. Nothing ground breaking in this and I appreciate it is still early days and still chance to make signings. And perhaps my thoughts are a bit of an echo chamber to others views. But all of the above did fill me with a sense of unease and disquiet. I guess a little like how I felt under Ince pre season and at the start - a nagging sense of impending trouble under the surface. I hope I am wrong, and it's me being overly worried but it all feels a little too familiar.

I know. And I think this is what irritates me even more about the situation. Most managers have to be pragmatic and have some focus on short term as otherwise they won't remain in post. Our guy is safe as houses and can rely on being here long term and yet somehow.despite this advantage cannot see beyond the current season.

Great post. And why I am seriously worried by his transfers. Last season he had a 50:50 ratio which was his best yet and still poor. However 4 of the 6 aren't here any more and a 5th looked over the hill when he came. Long term solutions and planning is not his forte.

You whenever we suggest we need players you don't think the club will buy...

"I feel like I am doing well"??? Blimey. I mean 2 goals in 2 years is in nobody's book doing well. And even under the circus of Venkys we have still seen some excellent championship strikers like Rhodes and Graham as well as great seasons from Armstrong and Gestede. That's doing well. Bereton is a million miles off that. Not sure when he's refering to but he hasn't done anywhere near this and until he does vaguely more then turn up for his annual dead rubber game then he should keep comments like that to himself.

Agree a new left back is key, but don't agree that is enough. A good quality centre back will also hugely help. Don't get me wrong I agree totally that sorting out left back would massively help and stop a lot of attacks. I also agree better protection from midfield is a must. However having seen tons of bad centre backs at Rovers over the years, the damage that they can cause is huge. Factor in too that we got a lot of clean sheets despite Walton because of the Tosin Lenihen partnership, and how we did when that partnership wasn't present and I think it shows how crucial a good centre half is. Don't get me wrong I don't think they need to be a ball playing centre half - that's a luxury we can't afford with our budget - but they have to be defensively solid. To me it's an absolute must, utterly crucial. As for the rest up front I disagree that it's enough. Not convinced on Gally or Bereton and it's a lot of risk with the youngsters, though I have high hopes for JRC. However whilst there is a need here, I agree that there are bigger issues at the back. It's a poor do that there are so many tbh.

My thoughts on Rovers transfers, for what it's worth. Kaminski - undeniably an upgrade on Walton, but then a corpse would likewise have that distinction. Pedegree seems solid Europa League and some decent teams in smaller leagues but there is an element of risk that this isn't English experience and the Championship is an unforgiving league. The main question is, is he better or the same as Raya? Not sure but he has the potential to be, so let's see. There's also something about kicking cocks. Not sure what that's about??? Wonder if TM can manage such a character although we need a bit of attitude. It's also a handy skill to have against some of our opposition. Williams leaving. On the face of it a huge fan of him going. He ranged from.crap to barely adequate at best, so is no big loss as long as replaced. If we get a better couple of centre backs in its an astute move, but numbers wise if he leaves we really need at least 2 in. And as the Mulgrew fiasco last year showed no matter how poor a player is somebody is better than nobody. I await with baited breath to see if we turn this plus into a negative. As for the rest. Defenders needed isn't rocket science as the cupboard is well and truly bare. And that's before you factor in Lenihen's injury record. I think its fair to say that objectively speaking (ie based on what we need not what we think the club will do) a few other positions need strengthening. We lost 2 strikers and two of the strikers we have look lost, so there's definitely room for another body or two up front. We probably need a wide midfielder/attacker too as even if all our strikers were Messi-esque they can't cover 2 positions simultaneously. Hopefully Davenport pushes on and claims a spot as otherwise Travis is struggling for a midfield partner. Evans is often injured (and imo often invisible when playing too..) Johnson blows hot and cold, mainly cold, with no stamina and Downing is no longer here so it looks a bit scarce there too. So plenty of work to do although all other wishes for the squad have to wait until we can at least field a defence!

A great player? I mean if not s plant, a realistic view would be he becomes decent for us, a championship standard player. To say he will become great is in the realms of fantasy. On what basis? He has no discernable strengths and 2 goals in 2 years - both, imo not coincidentally, in dead rubber games. Looked better? Well he couldn't look worse. But did he really look good? How many chances did he create? How many defences did he bully, how much end product was there? Not much and nowhere near what you would expect from a championship player. Put it this way compare him with any decent forward we have had in the championship and his performances post lockdown are still majorly inferior. A great player??? I'll settle for decent or better yet off the books.

I know, I know. I keep posting a list of their crimes past and present but the past is forgotten and the present ones ignored. Don't get it really. I mean watching the Sunderland documentary, stuff on protests elsewhere, West Ham from a couple of years ago - our fans seem a hell of a lot more tolerant than any other bunch I can think of. Back to transfers and I wonder if we will hit the 300 page mark before a transfer. Not like there's an urgent need for anyone or anything...

I may be heavily influenced by seeing the lad at Carlisle (I think it's the same one?) but back then he seemed to have bags of talent and would be happy with him. Agree questions surrounding whether he can get back to what he was but in terms of talent it's most definitely there.

You know if that's how high your standards are then ok but it does seem a tad hypocritical given how much we have botched it. More to the point if that is your standard then not sure how you defend TM so much given he falls way below what Frank and Brentford have done. Again it seems double standards. Really? Generally the reports from Brentford have been pretty positive. And Raya has made nowhere near as many errors as the clown we've had in net. I think your ire at calamity keepers may be better suited to closer to home.

Let me get this straight. You are criticising Brentford who finished multiple places ahead of us and with a lot more points? You are criticising a team for getting in the playoffs which we didn't do at all, and for narrowly missing out on automatic promotion which we were nowhere near? You are criticising them for bottling it where we fluffed it to get into the playoffs on numerous occasions? You are criticising them for buying a keeper who made a couple of mistakes when TM brought in a keeper who dropped clanger after clanger? Talk about double standards.

I have to say we are the only build I know that goes backwards!

It's a poor do, no it's absolutely criminal, that you can have a sneak preview couple of months of a season, six transfer windows, not have to sell any players, have a youth academy pumping out stars, spend £15 million on strikers, not have to worry about results, have the nucleus of a decent team and STILL need a rebuilding job after 3 years. I mean I really don't understand how you get to that position. I'm not sure it's that easy to do if you deliberately try to do. I mean this is beyond careless and incompetent, it's inexcusable.