Middlesbrough are an advert of what to do with an Academy (McClaren gets some kudos here). West Ham have years of tradition and a massive catchment area. Club size is irrelevant. The academy system is the better option; nice pitches, gym, food, kit, opposition, location. But if we don't have local players able to fill it we will have to eo elsewhere and gamble.

This is the system that has ruled English youth football for decades. This is the reason why England are woeful during major championships. Sparky, if you are correct United are doing it the right way. It is much easier to teach a kid to kick, turn, dribble and shoot at a young age than when he's a malcoordinated adolescent. Rovers don't get the cream of the youngsters in Britain. The local population isn't big enough to find stars and we don't have a real history of producing youth players, so we are having to go elsewhere to get "quality". It looks like we are scouring Europe for players now and that has the same risks as the 1st team does. When I was young if a Crewe scout spoke to you it was like Man U were asking as their reputation was top notch. Rovers? It didn't have quite the same ring. We do have first rate facilities but it seems like we are getting second rate players. FLB: funding wise, I've no idea but paying for all those players and facilities costs a bundle and would compare to most other clubs. Staff wise they seem pretty consistent. Bobby Downes has been there for years, Martin Glover the head development officer recently left after being there for nearly 10 years. Rob Kelly was there for a while until he went to Leicester to manage them. The staff have been pretty stable especially since above them has changed much more in the time period it's been running. Bring through youth players takes lots of luck and patience, I think it is still profitable thansk to Damien Duff and will be for a while.

Cheers Den, I could go on about this for weeks. BB there is now evidence out there that players who "graduate" from academies (ie. get pro terms) played more unsupervised football (see playing in the park with your mates) in their formative years. This playing without restrictions backed up with professional instruction is now believed to be the best method for churning out Wayne Rooney's by the boatload. Training only makes you better if you are being taught the right stuff. Gaz, Scholes and the Neville brothers would have been on associate schoolboy forms as it was illegal to offer other terms until they left school.

The FA Academy system was started around 1998 (FA Academy rules) and was designed to incorporate the complete youth set up of a club by allowing them to sign up kids from u-9 upward. When if first began full time players were offered 3 year scholarships once they left school and the club fielded 2 teams: u1-7 and u-19. This season it reverted to a u-18 only youth team. Teams have to apply and pass certain criteria to host an academy and there are currently 4 leagues geographically split between the South, Midlands, North West, and North East. Before the inception of academies clubs had Centre of Excellences and the government sponsored YTS scheme. Before that was a basic apprenticeship that old timers harp on about. The YTS scheme was set up in the early 1980's as a by product of Thatcher's unemployment cutting/hiding policies and trainees were given 2 year YTS terms from 16-18. At the end of their 2 year stint they were either offered pro terms or shown the door. Centres of Excellence governed u-12 and up and had very restrictive rules about contact with young players or how long they could train with the club coaches. Damien Duff came through the aforementioned YTS scheme; so strictly speaking he was not an academy product as the was already a professional when it kicked in. Academies wanted to address the rounded education of footballers by teaching them the way of the club from an early age and offering improved scholastic options. The YTS system only really got hold of kids once they had them full time, they had no extended contact with the club prior to that. Both systems have +'s and -'s but if the player is good enough they will make it in either system.

I think we all agree that it was an absolutely shocking performance from BRFC. I only saw the second half but apparently that was the better one. I'd hate to be forced to watch the first. I lost count of the number of times Rovers players passed it to the opposition. It was like watching Sunday League. I would like Hughes and his management team to publish their ProZone results from that game to give us actual numbers. As soon as Henchoz body checked M. Bent for no reason I knew it was curtains; our wall was 4 yards too far over giving them an open goal to shoot at. Brad Friedel has to be blamed which takes the gloss of another of his excellent performances. Gallagher is plainly not up to it. Would he garner the same support if we'd signed him from another team? I doubt it. The lad has skill but not the application. We will not go down, nor will we be sucked into the relegation battle. We will be one of about 8 teams come March/April who could finish anywhere between 17th or 9th depending on if they put in a good run toward the end of the season. This is where it looks bright for us as we will have a full team playing then. Hopefully. I agree that we may have to revert to the 4-5-1 circle wagon formation to help us get over the winter fixture pile up. Put Mokoena in there battering anything that comes close to our box. For people vaunting the return of Matteo; What are you thinking? Who posted that if a player is not playing his quality increases 10 fold? This applies here.

How does it feel being one of the four teams to have won the Prem? Great at the time. Now a feeling of nostalgia at the bygone days because it will never happen again under present market conditions. What do you think of Mark Hughes? Great manager, tactically astute, gets the best out of his players and will do well at Man U once Ferguson retires (hopefully after he's won a cup or 2 for us). UEFA Cup – Heaven or Hell? Heaven if we win it. Why has your season started so indifferently? Injuries to key players; Reid, Nelsen, Roberts, and getting used to a new strike force after Bellamy's departure. Who has performed above expectations for your team? Bret Emerton; he came back from the World Cup as a quality right back. And who not? Most on here think MGP. I would have to somewhat agree as his goals have dried up, although his work rate is still good. Why do you not sell out the ground? Price, quality, catchment area, disaffected local population, Sky TV proliferation, greedy local pub landlords. We are suffering more from the general disease that has affected football as a whole. What do you think of Reading? Tidy outfit with a good manager. Will do well this year but will probably suffer the second season blues as the squad won't be able to cope. Score Prediction? 4-1 Rovers. Any finally - tell me some Interesting fact about your club? Margaret Thatcher is an honorary director or something.

Don't you love this messageboard? For the record I agree with Scotty; Bentley played very well - albeit aganist a poor Fulham. The rest did well including the much maligned MGP. I thought he did a decent job apart from missing a sitter (as did McCarthy). This comment probably came from someone who read it on here. It's just a convenient conspiracy theory. Pure tripe. He plays every game "bar serious injury" because he is by far our best left winger, Sergio Peter is not up to it and never will be.

I'm not sure where to add this so I'll stick it here. Everyone's favourite football comic Sepp Blatter has actually come out with a few good statements: Sense from the FIFA bigwig? Not in the article is an idea where he wants a 6 + 5 rule for all clubs. I can't remember the details but a club will have to field 6 home grown players for each game. I don't know if home grown means from their own academy or the nation in which the team plays. I think it's a good idea as it will stop teams buying cheap ready to play imports rather than nurturing local (but maybe substandard) talent. If this was to happen the likes of Mokoena, an average Premiership player, would not get a sniff in England's top league. It may also even up the league a bit, but probably not as all the big 4 would do is buy up all the homegrown players and stockpile them.

I saw highlights of the game (it was on PPV over here but I certainly was not paying to watch England play a friendly). It looked boring, and yet again our mighty defenders can't defend a simple long ball into the box from out wide. England make me mad, Rovers don't. England has all the resources they need yet they continually ba!!s it up. I too wonder why Keiran Richardson gets a game for his country when he can't nail down a game for Man U. Yes, Giggs is a better player than him, so why have him playing then? Same with SWP. He made a major error moving to Chelski yet his reward for being greedy is a automatic England squad berth. Tripe. McClaren is on a hiding to nothing and if we lose our next qualifier he should a a gonner as should the idiots at the FA who appointed him. Another FA classic is their stance on the U-21's. McClaren wants a full time coach to develop them and provide a natural production line to the first team. The FA are stalling due to money. Typical FA, they have wasted 100 managers salaries in just 1 year of the Wembley disaster so they want to save money by harming the future. England has always neglected its youth teams, the current boss wants this to change as he views it as a vital part of the future. You only have to look at recent France, Portugal, Spain, Argentina, and any number of African teams to know that a strong youth set up will reap rewards. But not the FA, they want to do it half-ar$ed as usual. Wake me up when we qualify, or when the witch hunt gains momentum.

Charlton's comments regarding Dowie: Ouch! A few select quotes from the article; 'This is not just about results,' said Varney If they were in 6th place do you think they would have done the same? There is an element of what Iain said in his interview which didn't happen in reality Accusing him of lying are they? Varney also admitted the fact Dowie is being taken to court by Palace chairman Simon Jordan over his switch to The Valley was also a massive problem. Did they not think that was going to happen? Especially after what Jordan said when Dowie left. It looks like something dodgy went on behind the scenes. I think Charlton have ball$ed up this one. It stinks of typical football club directors getting on a power trip and blaming everyone but themselves for the situation they find themselves in.

I thought Newell's comments were funny but stupid. Referees have a thankless task, giving them grief because your team lost won't help matters. They lost 3-2, obviously the team has to take the blame for conceding 3 goals, she wasn't in goal for them. It really does my head in that people have a go at referees, it also does my head in that referess do not/will not exlpain themsleves afterwards. He could be in bigger trouble for slagging off his board, they are not very happy with him.

Monday morning reading comments after a loss always brings a smile to my face. No matter what happens there will be plenty of posts made by people with blue and white specs on, and a couple of idiots ones thrown in for good measure. As far as the game goes, we were beaten by a very good side. We didn't help ourselves by playing far too much long ball on a slippery surface, but we worked hard and kept United at bay for long periods. They are a very difficult side to play against: Rooney, Ronaldo, Giggs and Saha are all flyers with or without the ball at their feet, stopping them can be near impossible. Unforutnately their skill may never be appreciated by many as they are blinded by the fact that they play for United. They are great to watch, but not when they are tearing past Rovers players. Couple those 4 with Scholes' passing and any team will be in trouble. Why did they buy Carrick? We have 3 certain 1st teamers out, a left back playing with an injury, our left winger now has a broken rib, we've lost 4 in a row, we're not supplying anything to the forwards; it's all pointing to us beating Spurs on Sunday.

I'd love to have him. Although I've satated mroe than once that he shouldn't be playing for England he is still a very good player; one of the best England has produced in the last 15 years. His attitude is great, his workrate and fitness are phoenomenal, and he's not had many injuries (metatarsal aside). He would be Tugay's ideal replacement. He started off in central mid, he can finish there. He can sit in and pull the strings, score free kicks, and look like the continental. He will end up in the MLS, his academy is in LA and his wife is a big fan of stardom, but at 31 he still has too much to offer for a two bit league. If he comes to Ewood he will be the star and can prove to the whole country that he's still got it. He likes Mark Hughes, and I think I read in his book that his wife and Posh are good friends; she helped Posh settle in Manchester and was really nice (not my words). Wages wouldn't be a problem. Lonsdale would go out of the window and Adidas would make our kit whilst chipping in. We'd be on TV worldwide each week. Sign him up.

Academies rely on the strength of talent they bring into the club. You can have all the facilities in the world but if the players using them are not up to scratch in the first place it's pointless. There is some recent research saying that players kept on after they've finished their academy years more than likely played more unsupervised football (see street football) growing up than the ones that got released. This backs up some arguments. Rovers find it hard to attract the top tier of youth player because of who we are; Dunn was easy because he was a local, as was Beattie. Duff is one of a long list of Irish players who started to trickle into the youth system once Jack Walker's money came around. After that, or even before, our youth set up hasn't been the best.

They also got rid of Rino Gattuso becasue he was deemed no good. Then they couldn't function without Bazza Ferguson the free kick taking average player. Very strange indeed.

I saw some selected highlights. What a farce. Drogba falling everywhere, Carvalho booting everyone in sight, Marquez acting hard. The biscuit goes to Deco; he dived, feigned injury, got booted then squared up to Terry. He should get a 10 game ban.

More logs for the gate debate fire: Article on falling crowds. Just a summary of what everybody says really. We get a mention as do the usual suspects of pub TV, standing, high prices, and overzealous stewarding.

Would we have seen comments like this about Emerton 2 months ago? I doubt it. What was the thread; "Bad news - Emerton signs". How fickle we are. I do like the mark II qualifiers though every time Emerton is now mentioned. We are also atop the lack of discipline league if Sunday's commentators are to be believed. Do we get to keep that too if we win 3 in a row?

I think corner taking is bad across the league. I put it down to players trying to be too fancy with their delivery. If you watch Henry, Lampard, MGP and Co. take one, they try to strike a ball to give it as much spin and curl as possible, like a free kick. However just like a free kick they frequently go anywhere but where they should. What happeend to the days when players put the ball in a dangerous area and let others attack it. They can all put a ball where they want to, why try to be fancy?

I watched the game on Fox with Sky's boxing commentator giving us a history of West Ham for 90 minutes. It was bad to listen to, but they were the story not Rovers. The vast majority of us predicted a loss, probably the most accurate total ever, but it's still a kick in the teeth after watching it. As usual I have my own views that conlfict with some on here. Michael Gray was very sub par, defensively he was very shaky and never helped our attack with his constant long ball tactics. Peter worked very hard but didn't look to have that bit extra a winger needs to make it at the top, maybe a run of games could help (it was said on TV that MGP wasn't injured just dropped- it sounded like someone had been reading the MGP hides thread). Tugay wasn't up to scratch either, probably because Mokoena didn't give him much help. I'm not blaming Mokoena for Sheri's goal. Watch the reply, Teddy's run was great, he completely took Mokoena out of the equation. He might be 40 but he's a clever sod. The second goal should be the one we are complaining about, not because it should have been a goal kick; that doesn't excuse bad defending. It's now 3 goals in 3 games conceded off corners, that smells of either a lack of coaching or a lack of application; most likely the latter. We have lost 8 points because of it. (I didn't read Capt's post before writing this). Zurab needs to grow an inch, it glanced off his head backwards to create the first and he flicked it on for Mullins to score. Ooijer played very well.

A couple of friends of mine went to watch a Durham cricket match shortly after he missed the penalty in the playoffs that kept Sunderland down. Gray was there pie eyed causing allsorts of problems. Allegedly. Could that miss still haunt him?

Please translate Bob. I can only finds snippets but it does look like Ray Stewart scored 76 penalties, and missed 10, in his West Ham career. In 1981-1982 he scored 10 alone.

I'm English. Or was that a joke?

Do I not get any credit here? From the BBC: Ray Stewart Hard-tackling Scottish international who made 431 appearances for West Ham and scored 84 goals(76 pens) before joining St Johnstone in 1991. Managed Livingston and Stirling Albion before moving to Forfar in February 2003. Sacked in 2004, has recently been working as a chauffeur.

You'd think that there would be plenty of bandwagon Billy's jumping on this one. We are playing the current league champions in a knockout game with loads of tickets available. If we were closer to London would they bring thousands? How many would Man U bring in the same situation? What about us? Is it me or do Rovers fans not really care about Chelsea. They are fast becoming the team of choice for fans over here.