They did all that stuff at Ewood when we played them and lost earlier this season. Either Mowbray and his staff failed to remember it or they think they and the team are too good for that sort of stuff. Either way it worked yet again for Luton and cost us a result. One day we will have a team of winners prepared to use the dark arts to win games rather than a team of nice lads who 'do it right' but are also rans every year.

Anyone observing Mowbray's body language tonight would see that as a man who had at best a passing interest in the game, perhaps a pre season friendly attitude, and certainly not a man desperate for a win. Contrast to that cretin Jones who spent the entire evening like a rabid dog on the touchline, whereas Mowbray was slouched over the advertising boards and benches like he was on his holidays. Did he even stand up? Was Venus even there? The most exciting point of the evening was David Lowe's skirmish with Jones at the full time whistle. At last someone showing some passion and anger. Sadly it just isn't good enough. Fair do's to Hayden Carter, a good young prospect, but i find it a mixture of bewildering and embarrassing that we are turning up for Championship fixtures with no option but to chuck him into the side. We aren't playing Tosin because we are saving on his wages and we aren't playing Mulgrew because we are trying to force him out (even though the manager handed him a lucrative contract until 2021). Ridiculous. As for Derrick Williams the 'solution' to our CB issues - where on earth is he and what injury has he had? I don't know where we are going next with this operation which is a shame. I believe we have the ingredients for a play off side - some quality in Dack, Armstrong, yes Gallagher, Trav, Evans, Lenihan, Nyambe - but massive gaping holes in the squad that are here because the manager has failed to fill them. Some canny dealing, organisation and discipline and this group could quite easily be a top 6 side, but that appears to be beyond this outfit, partly due to the owners but also Mowbray living in fairy tale land with his philosophies and beliefs. 'We need to give these young lads games to get them experience' is the cry from the terraces. No we don't. We need to get ourselves a squad good enough for promotion. Either you are good enough or you aren't. We don't sacrifice our objectives to enable individuals to get game time.

If that claim is successful then just about every other club with financial issues this summer would have the green light to go into admin, clear their debts and not be punished. It would actually be daft not to go into administration. It would open the floodgates to carnage in the divisions. Can't be allowed.

For all the 'he's a great bloke' stuff he's actually used clubs to his own advantage with regularity and shown very little loyalty. I suppose some call it ambition and knowing when the time is right but if you look at his decisions - walked out on Stanley, walked out on Chesterfield, walked out on Portsmouth - I'd be amazed if he wasn't testing the water to see if he can jump to a richer Championship club. He doesn't strike me as the sort who will want relegation on his CV nor want a rebuild in League One. He will want to enhance his reputation.

Recent history is relevant history. Man City, Chelsea, United, Arsenal. Leeds and Forest have done nowt for 20, 30, 40 years. Forest haven't even graced the top division this century. Winning stuff 40 years ago given all the changes in football is obviously better than nothing but fairly irrelevant in today's world.

What recent history do Forest have?

Even if they don't relax the rules, no club is going to be able to comply after having no fans for minimum 6 months. So I don't see why we should worry about that when everyone else will be in a similar position. Its not as though the rules are enforced in any event. If we do get charged just slap in an appeal which takes 9 months to resolve like it has with Sheff Wed. I don't see any use to Rovers of making drastic cuts to comply with unenforceable rules and in doing so jeopardise our League status whilst Derby and Forest carry on regardless. Next up are Bournemouth. They should be nailed big style after their spending to get promoted. But we know nothing will happen. Last time we cut to comply we ended up with Wes Brown and League One.

Jason Lowe signed for Salford.

Probably not, but just imagine if our best players were out of contract. Nyambe will need a new deal for starters.

Yes I thought so. I don't expect Mowbray will have his budget in time for the meetings with players. I've also seen on Instagram that one or two players have holidays booked for the end of the week which suggests they will be off straight after tonight's game. In terms of those out of contact I'm not going to lose sleep if they depart but expect Mowbray to basically say: "Sorry lads I can't offer you a deal at the moment, maybe I will in a few weeks but if not you're welcome to come to Brockhall and train until you get a deal elsewhere" is pretty much what I expect. Then Mowbray will offer them new deals if India approves or if we free up some cash to allow it.

I expect that such a plan is at least 6-7 years away from coming to fruition. They haven't even nailed down a location on the university site yet. Then they need to draw up all the plans. Given it is going to be near the countryside they will have to jump through multiple hoops to get permission on it. They want a rail link to it which will add to the timescales then actually getting it built will take years. I suspect this is all strategic. It keeps the League off their back for a while as they show they are working to address the stadium issue. They can't stay at Birmingham long term. It will also apply more pressure on Wasps to do a deal for the Ricoh.

I'm not being funny Chaddy but where have Venkys or anyone said that Mowbray will get his budget after the season ends? All I've seen is an assumption that it will happen because it needs to and because Mowbray will be having appraisals with players including those out of contract. The assumption therefore is that Mowbray needs to be able to go into those appraisals knowing if he is able and willing to offer those players new terms. I think it is just as likely that in the absence of answers from India that Mowbray will simply tell those out of contract that he is unable to offer any of them new terms and as such they are free to look elsewhere. The lower cost ones who will struggle to get deals may hang around at Brockhall and train using our facilities eg. Ben Gladwin in the hope of landing a contract when India finally provides answers or if not a sale or two frees up the cash to offer it without needing Venky approval. Mowbray has already seen off Tosin. I suspect to save a few weeks on his wage and has said that Walton is off. I suspect that is because he cannot discuss a new deal with Brighton without his budget rather than not wanting him back. If I've missed the announcement that Mowbray gets his budget after tomorrow's game then I apologise and feel slightly better about things if true.

I hope we win and in doing so hit 66 points, finish 8th and above PNE. If that happens I will consider it a decent season's finishing position. Normally finishing there you would think a reasonable summer of transfer business would put us in good stead for next season, needing to add 5-10 points to the tally for the top 6 and perhaps 15-20 for automatic promotion. What actually comes next is anyone's guess but its a shame we can't build from a position of relative strength. I'd actually have some confidence provided Mowbray could properly address GK, LB, CB and replace Graham.

He'll want a break until someone comes along and offers him and his brother 3 year deals and another multi million pound deal. Bit like when Allardyce retired for 6 months until Everton offered him huge money to save them.

If you want to grab a bargain then taking advantage of the situation at Wigan or even Charlton would be a decent place to start, but to do that we would need to be quick out of the blocks and decisive. Mowbray will be lucky to have an answer from Indian before next season starts in September.

Fair do's, I don't think anyone expects us to be going out splashing cash around in the current climate and with Mowbray running recruitment I'm not sure id be comfortable even if we could. If the plan for the summer is wheel and deal, keep our prized possessions unless big offers come in and fill in the gaps using loans then thats more or less what we've done the last two summers other than the odd deals with Brereton and Gallagher. It's when we start taking knock down bids from tinpot clubs for prized assets e.g. Raya and Cairney that people start getting fed up.

We don't have £30 million in players to sell. The only one who might attract Premier League bids is Dack and that won't happen until he is fit and firing. The others aren't ready. Between them Trav, Armstrong, Lenihan and Nyambe might fetch £15-18 million on a good day. Given the lack of money around at present I'd say that is highly unlikely. It also means certain relegation to League One next year with no keeper, no defence and no goals in the squad and no money to spend.

Given the current state of the squad and work to be done on it the last thing that we should be doing is entertaining bids for those five. The rest aren't a problem but the above we should be building on for the next few years.

That's when the club PR machine kicks in to turn the player into a villain and ensure that there isn't a future here for him. Players like Cairney weren't keen to leave either but when the club starts courting interest and makes its intentions clear its obvious how things will end up. E.g. manager dropping hints in public that we need the money, suggestions that he has refused a new contract or isn't committed to the cause (Ben Marshall) or promises about it being a sacrifice worth making to generate cash for reinvestment (Raya). Double edged impact of turning the fans in favour of it whilst also making the player feel unwanted. Not saying that's what's happening here but I wouldn't rule it out.

If Wigan avoid any sanction for entering administration and are allowed to stay on 58 points and in doing so survive in the Championship then somewhere along the line there will have been an advantage. That is the idea of administration. It enables clubs to work through their debts and clear them usually at a loss to their creditors. It is for this reason the League introduced the automatic points deduction. The aim being to deter clubs from simply entering administration whenever they wanted, and being allowed to continue uninterrupted in the League without sanction. Ultimately as you say Wigan rely upon a benefactor model as do Rovers. For whatever reason the bloke in Hong Kong has pulled the plug on that but the end result is the same - that Wigan currently have a cost base too high for its natural income and now an owner not prepared to cough up the difference. The likes of Luton and Barnsley have smaller wage bills and losses and less reliance on owners. At the end of the day at Rovers we are fully aware of the reliance on Venkys for funds and the risks to the club if they suddenly decided to stop. But if they did plunge us into administration then I would fully expect the 12 point sanction. If I supported a rival club I would expect it do. Without a sanction we could effectively wipe the slate clean, pass the club on in reasonable health to new owners and be no worse off in the table for it. Meanwhile a Luton or Barnsley could, in theory, go bust if they go down to League One because the mandatory deduction isn't imposed. You actually have my sympathies especially if something dodgy has gone on. I know all about potentially sinister foreign ownership and what can come with it. You are right that Venkys have allowed the show to continue so far but we are only a recommendation or board meeting away from disaster here. But looking at the League overall there simply has to be a consistent enforcement of the rules. It is the failure to enforce rules that has meant Ffp has failed before it even started as Derby and Sheffield Wednesday have been able to ride over it all without punishment.

What the fans want or what the player wants are immaterial at this club. I agree that for what Travis is worth none but a select few Championship clubs should be able to afford him. I'm not going to give it credence by discussing what appears to be a baseless story. General point remains - nothing is off the table with these owners. Let's suppose Waggott needs the cash for July pay day. The phone to India is dead. Venkys are silent. Not beyond the realms of possibility that in desperation Waggott would accept a cheeky bid of a couple of million from somewhere to keep things ticking over for a month. Should it be possible? No With Venkys it is.

Hmm. I'm not sure i agree on the figures but yeah, the general point remains. I wouldn't trust anything at Rovers and the noise coming out of Ewood at the moment are not good ones. If the tap from India is turned off then ANYTHING is on the table. These are the people who ushered Tom Cairney out the door for a knock down fee without even consulting the manager It could be a fire sale but surely even they know the consequences of selling our few prized assets.

At the end of the day Wigan have gained an advantage by going into administration. Their owner might not have passed that advantage on to the club but entering administration enables a club to avoid paying all its dues. Why should Wigan be allowed another year of Championship football, the income and profile that comes with it, whilst a Barnsley go down instead who have paid their debts as they fall due? There's a bigger issue at stake here than 'poor Wigan fans'. Its about the integrity of the division. Same applies to Sheffield Wednesday who have clearly fiddled the system deliberately to gain a financial advantage. Their sponsors don't even exist!

Without checking is that commercial director or Head of commercial e.g. replacing Greg Coar? Wasn't he leaving? Dave Biggar was the last commercial director and he was above Greg Coar. Either way 7 months on I'm not aware we have a commercial director at present so what has happened?

Rovers should never need a third strip. I don't know why it is so difficult to alternate away strips whilst avoiding blue or white. Red, black, yellow are obvious away colours, but if you wanted you could have gold, orange, green, pink anything but blue or white. I wouldn't mind having third kits if it was a commercial decision to generate extra income and shirts were marketed as such. But the fiasco this year with the stock 3rd kit which arrived on the eve of the season and wasn't available in sufficient stock to sell shows that to not be the case. Umbro are not a good technical supplier and their kits have been dull and unimaginative. The range we get in the shop is limited and overpriced. Other clubs have stock including hats, vests, gilets etc. Hopefully we will get something better soon but I won't hold my breath in the absence of a proper commercial director