JHRover

Of course Hughton will try to win the game. That doesn't mean he will send his team out gung ho like headless chickens to try and outscore us. He will have a plan of how to deal with our threats and keep a clean sheet knowing if that works then at the very least they are getting into good habits in defence and have stopped the rot and if they nick one up the other end then they're up and running for the season. He's a clever manager and will adapt his approach to teams depending on being home, away, and who they are playing. Start with the basics - stop the rot, stop conceding goals and go from there. All the best managers do that. Being cautious and focusing on not conceding doesn't mean he won't try and win the game. His employers won't give a stuff if it moves them up the table. Lamouchi was as dull as they come but he had them chasing promotion all last season so they were happy with it.

Do you have a pavement outside your house? Or an alleyway behind it? If so would you be happy to allow rubbish, weeds and whatever else to pile up on it making your house look like a dump and do nothing because it isn't on your property? Or would you show some pride and civic responsibility and either get someone to shift it or move it yourself? I'd be embarrassed to be honest. I also know that if I were a potential sponsor, investor etc. considering whether to put my money into the club I'd want to take guests without walking through filth and rubbish on adjoining properties. Its the little things in life. Having some pride in our home and the impression people get from it is important. Excuses matter not.

Dack isn't going to get Premier League interest full stop. If he was they would have picked him up by now. As it is he's what, 27 and spent most of his career in League One. Obviously a huge player for us that we need to hope comes back fine and picks up where he left off. But I think expecting any serious interest from top division clubs is pushing it. He is good but is he that good? The biggest worry is selling him off to a Championship rival. That must not happen but is in my view the most likely. Someone like Derby or a relegated Fulham would pay him double what we will. Invoking the 12 month extension in our favour should be nothing more than an emergency measure used to protect the club in the worst case scenario. Before that time comes we should be securing him, with his agreement, to a proper new contract. I'm not sure such things are on Waggott's agenda here though. Forcing him to stay on his existing wage for 12 months having failed to offer or agree a new deal wont be good for the player nor Rovers. It will lead to resentment and a wasted season as he ticks down the days to being sold or released.

Yeah I agree. Come January the project will be to get him shifted for a reasonable fee. That will then go for running costs. Before then they need to hoodwink supporters into believing that he has been offered a fair deal but isn't signing it. This will shift any culpability in the eyes of fans away from Mowbray or Venkys and onto Nyambe or his agent. 'Not our fault, we offered him a fair deal but he turned it down under advice from his agent' Of course the question will be whether he has been offered a deal and what sort of offer that is. By the sounds of things nothing has happened on that front.

Why are we chasing top 6? What's the prize for that? I'd rather we chased promotion and to guarantee that we need top 2. Very much doubt Chris Wilder or Neil Warnock aimed for the top 6 at the start of their promotion seasons. Think 'aiming for a top 6 push' is setting the target too low. Two clubs go up automatically - the aim should always to be one of them.

Us, Stoke, Birmingham, Derby, Bristol City, Cardiff, Swansea, Reading, QPR, Sheffield Wednesday and Middlesbrough will ALL be in breach of FFP. Most were pushing their luck to start with, having lost millions through reduced income over the last 7 months they will be in breach. I'd be surprised and very impressed if all have overheads like they do and could remain compliant without any fans for 7 months. You may well be correct on Norwich, Luton, Wycombe. Perhaps Brentford and Forest may keep their heads above water after a couple of big sales although I seem to recall that a few people were saying we couldn't possibly sack Mowbray and co. last season due to Covid and FFP yet that is precisely what Forest have just done with their manager. I'd love to see the EFL try to push sanctions through on all those clubs. Firstly if they succeeded it would ruin the league, secondly there is no way given the government restrictions and refusal to allow fans in that they can punish clubs for something they have had no control over. You can't severely restrict club incomes through government legislation at a moments notice and then turn around and sanction clubs for spending too much over their income. I suspect the barristers would eat that up for breakfast. Imagine trying to sanction say Derby after they have lost income from 25,000 fans a week and their commercial and corporate departments through no fault of their own, whilst allowing outfits like Luton off with nothing just because they've lost a fraction of the amount due to having a smaller fanbase and stadium. It can't work. I think it is foolish to adopt a strategy based upon something that is almost certainly not going to happen.

Every club is going to break FFP. Except maybe Brentford with the Watkins sale. As you say - no income coming in for 7 months = FFP failure Are they going to waste their time trying to deduct points from 23 clubs or focus on ensuring there is still a football league for fans to return to next year?

But if the owners allow it and Mowbray decides to spend it then we can afford it. How can you say you'd be against a potential signing because 'we can't afford it' when we clearly can afford it if we are doing it? You might not agree with the price but that's Venkys business. Overall we are talking about a lad who has spent his career in the middle of League One at Doncaster Rovers. Not exactly paying Messi's release clause and wages. Something seriously wrong if we are unable to sign such a player if we really want him.

Great if true. I just worry that without Mowbray there may be a void in which chaos could thrive. As you say under Allardyce and Hughes we did well at identifying these players and bringing them in. The owners ruined that with their running of the club and fair play Mowbray has worked to address it I just hope that it isn't contingent upon Mowbray being at the club and hope it will be a permanent fixture regardless of which manager is in the dugout.

That all may be correct, but I'd like to know how this investment and structure compares to other Championship clubs before hailing it as some sort of masterstroke. The fact that it has required Mowbray's input over 3 years to get to a stage where we have this network having not had one for years is worrying. Hopefully we are now catching back up to other clubs but for a club of our size and league we shouldn't have been in that position.

Hughton in the Championship 1 season at Newcastle - won the league 1 season at Birmingham - play offs with a decent European run 2 seasons at Brighton- play offs and automatic promotion. Also kept Brighton and Norwich in the top flight. Mowbray in the Championship 1 season at WBA - won the league 3 seasons at Middlesbrough- mid table 2 seasons at Rovers- mid table Relegated comfortably in his only Premier League season, also spent 18 months struggling in League One at Coventry. Hughton is a better manager. Good for Forest. An owner who knows what he wants and will do what is needed to get there.

If you or Waggott seriously believe that a 9 point penalty this season for FFP issues is going to happen then we've no hope. It isn't going to happen. And it certainly won't be the reason we will lose players on free transfers. Infant quite the opposite. Our biggest shield against FFP issues is to ensure our promising homegrown players are secured for the long term. Our failure to do this will cost us millions of pounds and contribute more to FFP risk than anything else.

When Steve retires we should look at ex employees of Coventry and Middlesbrough because I'd wager that's where his successor will be selected from. Then again they might just not bother with a CEO like they did before Waggott.

But it isn't an aeon away. We haven't got zero income coming in. We are still getting the media money which constitutes the majority of our income, we've got similar merchandise on sale to previous years and are finally selling season tickets. Granted we don't have matchday revenue (or overheads) and sales of season tickets are currently around a third of last years. But let's not suggest there is no money coming in. Also remember we are currently around £70,000 a week down on wage commitments from last year which will go a long way to covering lost ticket income. We've got to get these deals done and quickly. A club in our position cannot afford to lose prized assets on free transfers through dilly dallying.

Yeah but the point i was making was that whether the players are world beaters or dross the moment they head through the exit door they need replacing. Many of those e.g. Bennett, Evans, Rothwell, whilst arguably dispensable, are still experienced and competent players to call upon when needed. This setup and manager simply isn't capable of bringing in a dozen players in one window. Which is the sort of number we would need if all those left. Dack I also worry about. The 12 month option for the club, whilst a safety net, I feel if activated rather than him sign a new deal, is simply going to be a countdown clock to him leaving the following year. If we can't get it sorted by next summer we can't get it sorted.

sometimes the club and owners have to see the bigger picture. Short term savings or medium term massive losses through contract expiry. Like saving a few quid on avoiding Neil Warnock and getting Coyle. Good for the short term balance sheet. Ended up in League One instead of the Premier League. Not the brightest here is the lesson to learn.

Not really. If the transfer budget and wage budget is impacted by the number of season ticket sales who in their right minds would sit and do nothing until mid September and then complain by early October about numbers sold? Why set a transfer and wage budget and then wait 3 months before starting sales? Doesn't add up and you were the one who brought season tickets up. As I say, doesn't actually matter. I'm more interested in the precipice of next summer. I just hope nobody has the audacity to complain about limited money if those players walk for nothing.

And whose fault is that?

That's ignoring the estimated £70,000 a week shaved off the wage bill since last season. So extensions/wage increases should be coming out of that pot. As I say, doubt this 'pot' will be used for either new contracts or permanent additions. End of the day it doesn't matter. What actually matters is the fact that half our burgeoning young squad will be able to walk away for nowt in the summer. Unless we act quickly and decisively we are going to lose millions in assets and face a mammoth recruitment job next summer. Not interested in excuses. I just want it sorting and quick.

Where have I said that our academy isn't a success? It clearly is a success with the number of players in our first team. There's a difference however between the academy being successful and default relying on it all the time when better options are available externally. Keeping Category 1 is not a miracle. A third of Championship clubs have it and as you say, given our productivity it would be senseless to get rid of it. Its more than covered itself in the last decade with Jones, Hanley, Lenihan, Travis etc. Sunderland, Wolves, Leicester and Norwich all retained Category A status in that division without billionaire backers. If you aren't going to secure these players down to long term deals then you lose millions in fees and never get anywhere. Its madness but further evidence of the approach these owners have. If they had an ounce of interest they'd have instructed staff to issued new deals to these players. Instead it seems Mowbray is trying to persuade them to do it. It's like a parallel universe. I notice last week Mowbray said contract extensions may have to be paid for from his transfer kitty. Ludicrous. Yet if I were betting now I'd put money on neither happening before January.

And that's good enough or acceptable?

I'm not giving them stick for not doing it. Just pointing out that there are ways and means for those owners determined enough to get where they want to be. Nothing ever happens here other than this 'developing' players routine (which we risk losing for nothing due to the contract situation). It's a bit like the Wolves one - their owners came in with a determination and a plan of how to do it and rolled with it. It involved all sorts of shenanigans with the Portuguese players and Jorge Mendes. Might not be what the nice folk want to see with an agent running the show but now Wolves are changed beyond recognition for the better whilst we kick around skint in the Championship. It worked for them and they beat FFP.

No, but there would be nothing stopping the owners doing that for future windows if they wanted. They could have done it last year or 3 years ago had they been determined to beat FFP. Of course they won't do it, because they don't have the interest, desire or wherewithal to do anything about it. Much easier just to trot out the 'woe is us' routine every time a window comes around. Plenty of ways to skin the FFP cat, you can either tackle it head on - see QPR, Bournemouth, Leicester, Derby, Forest, Watford - or you can get left behind and spend the rest of your days whinging about it - see Waggott and Rovers.

Good for Forest. Bad for us. That's what owners and clubs determined to beat the system do - find clever ways of getting round the rules to bring good players in despite FFP. Do I like it? No Should it be banned? Yes Is it in breach of any rules? No, and if it gets them where they want to be they'll be happy. We'll just sit on the sidelines shrieking about how unfair life is and how much of a struggle it is. Derby were another lot with their dodgy Rooney deal. Got away with it.

So we have a lower matchday revenue than Preston, Millwall, Reading - something seriously wrong down at Ewood if that is correct. Mismanagement of the highest order. Why is it pretty good being ahead of Preston and Sheffield United? As a club we are far ahead of Preston in stature and size and probably about the same as Sheffield United. Either way I'd like to know why, what, how, when outfits like Wycombe, Reading, Luton, Brentford, QPR, Millwall, Preston, Rotherham, Barnsley, Huddersfield, Middlesbrough got themselves into a higher bracket than us on revenues, attendances etc.