JHRover

Talk about moving goalposts - we've gone from me saying we can compete in the Championship to me apparently claiming that we are a 'big financial powerhouse'. Lol More than half this league would love billionaire owners willing and able to write off £15 million a year. I detest Venkys but I accept that the money they put in should at least put us a notch above many in this league. You seem to think even though we are burning up £15 million a year in losses that we are neck and neck with the nobbers and the rest.

OK. Still bought them though. And Venkys are still putting £15-20 million a year in. So that makes income quite irrelevant. If the owners can and will pump millions in then we can compete. Your theory appears to be done on the basis the owners don't put more in here than most every year. Of course without external investment we might struggle to compete. You can apply that to everyone. Without Sky money the relegated clubs couldn't compete.

Pretty much what I've been getting at all day but seems I'm preaching to the converted. Ah well, some can look forward to a future of struggling to compete with Wycombe and Luton. I expect more and with owners pumping in £20 million a year I hope they expect more too.

Interesting interpretation of what I've been saying. Still, I'd rather have high expectations and views on my club than convince myself that we can't even compete in the 2nd division.

Probably yes. That would be normal of an agent to do. I was questioning who at Rovers told Sharpe about it and why when the deal wasn't over the line.

We've seen how the snowball effect works with transfers both in and out. I've long criticised the Telegraph for spreading rumours about our prized assets which seem to be based on little other than national tabloid or twitter gossip but then spread to bigger stories. But this time around I'm sure someone at the club will have had a word with Sharpe and confirmed the Kipre deal. I dont believe that the Telegraph story will have suddenly made Bilic put a bid in for him. But i do wonder who at Rovers will have fed Sharpe that info and why they allowed him to release it when they did. We know from experience that Sharpe will only run with these sort of stories if Rovers give it to him or give him the go ahead. So why would they do that this time if the deal was still to be done?

Not something I've ever seen before, was wondering if it would be new merchandise for sale or just something Umbro have made for marketing

I didn't think our income was 'poor'. I thought it was competitive. Not big but certainly no reason why it should be lower than many others in this league. I've been over many times that these owners are at least in part responsible for our income levels due to their mismanagement and neglect, which includes years of not taking commercial and sponsorship seriously and allowing thousands of fans to become alienated. So I suppose in a way I accept things aren't great, but I don't believe that is natural but rather created by poor management and shouldn't be an excuse. It isn't that this club cannot compete at this level as history shows we can. It continues today with us being one of a small number not to sell tickets. Either way for whatever reason Venkys appear comfortable pumping £15 million a year in. Whether you like that or not or want it to continue or not as long as it does this club can compete in the Championship. I find it ludicrous that anyone would argue 'we can't compete' whilst surrounded by Barnsley, Wycombe and Luton and owned by billionaires

Can anyone work out what that is on the left which appears to be a flag with a different red rose over it?

Wow. The voice of optimism. Our wage bill, losses and income all suggest otherwise. End of discussion from me. I'll be wondering why we don't just shut the club down if that sort of talk carries on

Reading? Brentford? Give it a year and you can add Huddersfield, Swansea and Cardiff. Give it 2 years and you can add Norwich and Bournemouth once they've adjusted to life at this level

The false claim that we can't compete with half the division.

Thanks. You've just confirmed what I've been saying. They can't compete because they would never have been able to spend that sort of money on players like we have. Nor would most teams in this league.

But we are different to them. We have a larger income, richer owners and losses far greater than theirs. Last time I checked they were losing around £6-7 million per year. So with losses of triple that despite bigger income that means we should be at a sizeable advantage. If you think we are equal to them then why are we losing so much more money?

I'm not playing anymore. I've made my thoughts on this clear. There are 8 clubs in the league getting parachute cash, several of which are in trouble financially. Other than Derby and Forest the rest we can compete with on wages and income. Mind you the way things are going here we will soon be looking up at Wycombe, Barnsley and Luton as clubs with bigger gates. Maybe that's the plan.

We could if Venkys wanted to. I don't expect or demand them to. But if they were serious about it and prepared to chuck the cash in they could do what they did at Leicester and Wolves. FFP won't stop that. But they clearly can't or won't do that so we have this hybrid approach of massive losses and a competitive wage bill but inability to sign certain players. I do not accept on what I have heard and read in the accounts that we cannot compete with half the Championship. When losing nearly £20 million a year we can compete with most in this league.

Proper blue

I was asking you to identify the clubs you thought we couldn't compete with, in response to the suggestion that we couldn't compete financially with half the division.

Where did I say that we should be able to compete with everyone in the league? I disagree with the claim that 'we can't compete with half the teams in this division' We can compete. If we can't there is something seriously wrong with our income/wages ratio and our annual losses, which are massive for this level. Let's not get onto reasons for income being low at the club refusing to sell tickets and without a shirt sponsor.

So why are we losing £20 million a year to not even be able to compete with half the second division? Seems like a mystery to me.

Your source for this wage cap and how it compares to others? Care to name me the 12+ clubs in this league we can't compete for on wages? By my count there are 8 clubs receiving parachute cash. Including Middlesbrough who are in their final year of it and Swansea and Huddersfield who are struggling financially. Cardiff are another who don't spend big. I would hope we can compete with everyone else in this division. If we can't then what exactly do Venkys bring to the party and why are we losing the neck end of £20 million a year whilst all these other clubs lose a fraction of that?

Not necessarily. Parachute payments are there to soften the blow of adjusting to much lower income, not to blow other clubs away financially. Bournemouth's parachute cash will be all earmarked for existing players on big money that they need to be rid of before making signings. Even if it did, how many of those clubs are there? Watford, Norwich, Stoke and Bournemouth. Swansea and Huddersfield are skint. Who else?

Thursday afternoon the Telegraph headline is that a deal is almost done and Sharp was on twitter denying any issues or West Brom bid. By Friday morning they are in pole position and Rovers might struggle to match his personal demands. That's a U turn. When did I say we should have gone in early with a £2 million bid? Patterns emerging here. Interest in players leaks out via the Telegraph and then the deal doesn't happen. Assombalonga, Bauer, Kipre, Darlow, Atsu. I'll reserve judgement until the first game of the League season but we havent done anywhere near enough as yet and excuses won't earn us points next year

I agree with parts of this but I'm curious as to why we cannot compete with the 'top half of the Championship'. Our own Chief Executive is on record as saying we are mid table on wages in this league. Our owners are allegedly billionaires eager to invest in the club hamstrung only by FFP. Derby have demolished those rules opening the doors to clubs to ignore them. We've just slashed £100,000 a month off the wage bill. So who in the Championship can we not compete with?

Let's not make up stuff about finances to soften the blow of missing out. Nobody knows what WBA are offering or how that compares to Rovers. Obviously they can and probably will be offering substantially more. We don't know if that is 'double' what Rovers are offering. West Brom are run by businessmen and I very much doubt will simply chuck double your money at a Championship player. Just like they could have gone in weeks ago with £2 million for Kipre and got the deal done early but have waited. We had similar stuff last year with Bauer and the frankly ludicrous suggestions that he was demanding £40k a week to move here. That was absolute drivel fed to try and make people feel better about a missed target and not getting a proper defender on a contract yet many accepted it as the truth. He later turned up at PNE. I just hope that the alternative isn't another last gasp loan deal. Season starts tomorrow and no defensive reinforcements yet.