JHRover

I see Birmingham have avoided further sanctions for FFP breaches. So they've broken the rules by a country mile, failed to follow a transfer embargo imposed as a result and failed to then stick to the business plan and restrictions imposed by the league but only had one points deduction, timed for when they were comfortably mid-table with little chance of promotion or relegation. Still no news on Sheffield Wednesday, Derby or Reading for fiddling either. Remind me why anyone takes these rules seriously or worries about compliance?

Forest are doing the same, but theirs are 20 quid and they've already sold 500. I suspect we are watching and copying them seeing an easy way to make a few quid. Normally I'd applaud that but in the present circumstances it doesn't sit right doing that to fans already out of pocket. I suspect we'll sell a handful and it will look daft on tv.

Does anyone know anyone who has a box or place in Jack's kitchen/Premier Suite? Just wondering what the policy is towards those people who pay thousands a year to entertain guests. Are we really going to upset them too by giving them a password for I Follow? Could be corporate suicide.

Ok so I've had a productive day reading through the various options offered around the Championship and thinking about how Rovers compare to our rivals. As far as I can see only Preston and Reading come into the same group as us that being they are only offering one option of exchanging season tickets for access to IFollow. Nevertheless Preston have said that they are planning on rewarding fans next season for their loyalty which is more than Rovers have done (strange as Waggott himself suggested in May that he wanted to reward fans with discounts towards renewing season tickets yet there's absolutely no mention or suggestion of it in the club statement last week). Other than that every other club is offering a range of options some which completely shame us and our treatment of fans. Wigan are offering three options - a refund, I Follow access or credit for future purchases Stoke - every season ticket holder has been credited with pro rata club cash to use how they want - towards online games, future purchases, donation or cash refund. WBA - 3 options - cash refund, I Follow access, club cash for future buys or a donation Derby - 5 options - cash refund, donation, 4 home game vouchers next year, 10% off next season ticket & I Follow access or 20% off next season ticket Forest - cash refund, 10% off next year + pair of tickets for 2 cup games, I Follow access including digital programme or donation Birmingham - I Follow access, donation or 21% toward next season's ticket Sheff Wed - donation, pro rata refund or credit to club account Barnsley - donation, any 4 games next season, discount on season ticket or cash refund Huddersfield - 4 options - default is IFollow access but can change to refund, donation or club credit Leeds - donation, pro rata refund or 'bundle' including I Follow access, programmes & £50 retail voucher Hull - refund or discounts for next season Middlesbrough - refund or credit on future purchases - either way fans get free I Follow access Millwall - I Follow access but can request refund Fulham - I Follow access, pro rata refund, credit to club account or donation Brentford - I Follow access, refund, credit to club account or donation Charlton - I Follow access, refund or credit for future purchases QPR - Free access to I Follow and either a club credit or refund Swansea - can select either a refund, online streaming (with 70% off club shop & 50% off ST if promoted) or 'lucky dip' with 70% off club shop and 50% off season ticket if promoted Cardiff - cash refund, ticket office credit & I Follow access or donation Bristol City - refund, donation to academy or ticket office credit Luton - either a refund or donation to the club. If donating to the club you receive pack which includes I Follow access, programme, teamsheet and your name on next season's shirt. So in view of the above i hope nobody thinks we are just doing what everyone else is doing. We've made a decision and it is going to cost us. Dreadful treatment of supporters and that's before we compare the wording of club statements, many of which treat fans with compassion, honesty and respect. Sadly we aren't even capable of that. I think everyone can understand it is a tough situation and needs to be carefully managed. But to not offer any options or alternatives and basically say 'tough' to anyone unable or unwilling to use online streaming is terrible.

Barnsley get promoted from League One and harness that momentum and goodwill and use it to grow their fanbase. We get promoted from League One and somehow manage to reduce our season ticket base whilst upping prices by nearly 20% across the board. One club might be struggling on the pitch but at least knows the importance of treating fans with respect and the proof is in the numbers through the doors. Waggott will argue he has done his job on the balance sheets but the numbers of fans turning up suggest otherwise, and it is only going to go one way from here.

I was using my mobile. When I tried on my desktop it worked. Cheers though.

I've tried multiple times to register or login to My Rovers using that link and no matter what I do it claims the email address is invalid (it isnt because I use it every day and havent changed it in years). There are no spelling mistakes. Anyone else experience similar?

Nice football, constant improvement despite regularly losing best players, healthy finances. Let's face it, everyone wants to do that. Easier said than done. No owner is going to say "we're taking a short term approach and will appoint an old school manager and use whatever style of football gets results. It might be dull but all we want is promotion". Productive academies, profits, young coaches and nice football are all the rage these days. Not many with a better record in League Two on a tight budget than Keith Hill. Two promotions with Rochdale against the odds. Bolton would have been well placed at that level with him. Not a Championship manager though, despite the bizarre clamour for him to come here.

Yes, but those people haven't already paid for something they now aren't getting. If you live too far away then you don't buy a season ticket. Simple. If you don't have a laptop or internet you don't pay for IFollow. Simple. What the club are trying to do is transfer something that was paid and signed up for last year into something completely different with no alternative for those who cannot or will not adopt it. Proof will be in the pudding. If Rovers are doing it right then how come so many are offering refund options?

Amazing that Antonsson is still in this top 10 despite only being at the club for 1 year out of 3.5 under Mowbray and even then spent a lot of time sat on the bench.

https://www.nottinghamforest.co.uk/news/2020/june/letter-from-the-chairman-120620/#NFFC Now that's a professional, honest and reasonable statement from a rival club. Admission that cash refunds are not desirable but nevertheless offering the option to those who want. Alternative options to reduce the immediate impact on the club.

There are a couple of other admittedly smaller issues here that I will be asking the club about that can't be exchanged for a password to stream matches online. I bought a programme subscription at the start of the season, so I'd like to know if I will be getting money back on that. In addition, the terms and conditions of a season ticket clearly state that it also entitles fans to access to all home u23 matches, and I would go to them all work permitting. So I'd also like to know what will be happening there as there's been no mention of u23 games resuming and probably no prospect of online viewing. Much smaller issues agreed but I dont think it is reasonable for the club just to ignore it and hope nothing happens.

I agree, my suspicion is that all the season ticket money has already been spent and accounted for. The only chance of a refund scenario would be if Waggott went cap in hand to the owners and asked one of them to cough up the cash to allow that to happen. I don't think anyone at Rovers, certainly not Waggott, would have the balls at this moment in time to ring the owners up and ask for such a thing. It is less hassle just to tell fans they aren't having it and ride out any negative reaction. As I said earlier, I don't expect any mutiny on the terraces about it. There will be grumbles online and a few complaints going in but most will either just accept it or give up altogether and disappear from Ewood. A fair few will be unhappy but end up going back anyway (myself probably one), a fair few more will probably stop due to the virus irrespective of this but I also think some will simply see this as another reason not to return at a time we cannot be upsetting those fans we have left. I honestly fear for the future of our support base and I don't think the owners or their representatives have the slightest interest or understanding of how decisions like these can upset people and how people remember these sort of things when deciding whether to renew.

So due to FFP we screw our own loyal season ticket holders, in turn likely resulting in a significant drop in buyers next time and for years to come, in turn reducing revenue. See what i am getting at? Even if FFP has played a part in this decision - which isn't mentioned once in the statement (infact the club actually goes further and suggests the club's future and existence is at stake if people get refunds) - it is an extremely short sighted approach - which may well have no relevance in any event if FFP is suspended as surely clubs will demand - but even if it helps us comply by the skin of our teeth this year it damages the club longer term. How are Leeds going to go about refunding 20,000+ season ticket holders if we can't manage less than 8,000? How are Wigan doing it when at risk of the financial strife from relegation? It's about how you see and treat your loyal fans. Once again, and not for the first time in recent seasons, loyal longstanding season ticket holders are taken for granted and are treated poorly by the club. The idea that we should be grateful for access to the remaining games online (even though Sky have done a deal with the EFL to do this and the clubs are receiving their full media income as a result) doesn't sit well with me. As our season ticket base drops away further below 8000 down to 5000 or 6000 at least Waggott can collect his full salary and crack open the bubbly because we didn't break FFP rules and saved some cash on refunds. He's already seen one drop despite promotion after deciding to up the prices on our return to the Championship - good for the balance sheet but bad for bums on seats. A wage deferral, whilst admirable, is not a reduction, cut or loss. The players will still be entitled to that cash, expect to receive it and almost certainly will unless the club is liquidated. The PFA would see to that. I've seen no mention at all of 'short term deductions' from anyone at Rovers - can you tell me where this was stated?

So Covid 19 results in redundancy or wage cut to minimum wage yet a father struggling to make ends meet shouldn't expect £100+ back for him and his sons tickets because? Money that would pay the rent or shopping bills Meanwhile a director takes home £300k salary and we've another 12 months on Charlie Mulgrew's deal for him to sit around not playing because Mowbray doesn't like him any more or giving Ben Gladwin 6 months wage for nothing. Money is there when the right people ask for it.

FFP really is the excuse that keeps on giving at Rovers. People seem to forget that numerous rival clubs have already confirmed refunds will be given to their fans. How do they afford it? Leeds are doing it despite having far more tickets to refund at far greater expense. Their owner has his head screwed on though. The likelihood is that FFP rules will go out the window or at least on ice for the foreseeable with the chaos Covid will bring to clubs and budgets. Even if it doesn't the cost of refunding 8000 paying ST holders is a drop in the ocean compared to our losses and wage bill. Not that guilty clubs are punished anyway. Whatever happened to Derby and Sheffield Wednesday? The same Derby now refunding their 20,000 or so season ticket holders. Good job they dont hide behind FFP excuses and tell their fans to forget about refunds.

I wonder if Waggott has discussed this policy with the owners or instead has pursued it on his own. I wonder because if he is being judged on reducing the burden on the owners it perhaps then indicates why he hasn't gone cap in hand to them to refund supporters, as it would earn him no credit upstairs actually probably the opposite. It seems he gets brownie points for avoiding using their money so probably feels entirely justified in taking this approach. Like with everything at Rovers these days it's all about the short term rather than one eye on the long term state of the club.

All clubs are going to have to be very careful over the coming months to try and keep their core support on side or risk a horrific decline in attendances when this period finally passes. Looking at the Rovers season ticket holder demographic you will have a lot of people in there who will be financially harmed by the virus and lockdown - people who would benefit from 50 or 60 quid back from their season tickets - and who might be unwilling or unable to cough up £350 for another season ticket and simply not renew. You'll have a chunk of people who will get out of matchday habits. If this goes on for many more months people will just realise they are quite content with not going to watch football, habits have changed and once you go down that road it becomes so difficult to get them back into it again. Then you've the supporters in the higher risk category, significant in numbers, who even if football resumes will think twice about putting themselves at additional risk by going to a crowded football match. We aren't in good shape crowd wise as it is. We need to do everything to keep those here happy and give them a reason and incentive to return when this is over. Another chunk of cash to watch boring 2nd division football isnt enough. Unfortunately Waggott as ever is more concerned about short term balance sheets and cash flow as that is what he will be employed on. Whether he knows it or not he's running a steamroller through an already delicate situation. I expect the results to be horrendous. Then he will question loyalty and commitment.

Derby have done

It also implies that the club's future is not secure and that refunds would potentially put the club at risk. So much for kind generous billionaires who care deeply and never say no to writing a cheque. Club isnt at risk through bad management, obscene debts or an astronomical wage bill but is at risk if fans ask for some money back which they should be entitled to. Pretty slimy and underhand stuff here from Waggott. Very much a 'them and us' mentality. Players are great for agreeing a temporary deferral on mega money wages but evil fans wrong for expecting their money back to help pay bills. Quite sick really.

Where is the offer of a refund and how do people go about claiming one? I couldn't see any mention in the statement.

Access being a password for an online stream which Sky are paying them full whack to do. Bit different to hosting a match and allowing fans admission as per the contract they signed up and paid for. Appalling attitude from Rovers and I'll say now (heat of the moment) that unless there is a change or promotion for the next season ticket then I will be giving very serious thought to not renewing. I'm tired of having the mick taken out of me by people who have no affinity to the club on 6 figure salaries only interested in the balance sheets. People wondered why I went mad at Ben Gladwin being handed a 6 month contract to do nothing. Well here we are and I'm out of pocket with the club pleading poverty. Top paid director salary doubled in last set of accounts. Can be he won't be picking up a loss. Take season ticket holders for granted at your peril. So far we've had freebies by the thousand in the BBE upper and now refunds for match ticket holders but season ticket holders can forget it. Roll up for the next 1875 membership just to ensure I can get away tickets which regular buyers should get anyway. The true shame will be when most rivals do offer refunds. Pretty sure Barnsley and Wigan have already confirmed it. Waggot's modus operandi is to use guilt and comments about loyalty and 'all in it together'. Corry Evans is committed because he's signed a new 4 year contract. Are you committed?

An entirely predictable approach by Rovers which has been inevitable since the season was curtailed. It will be interesting to see how many simply accept it and how many take it further and demand their money back. I'm not sure on the legalities of it as the terms and conditions and customer charter dont appear to address circumstances in which paid fans are unable to be given access to the ground. There is clearly something unfair and wrong when those who bought single match tickets can claim a replacement for a future fixture whilst no such benefits for loyal season ticket holders. I thought season ticket holders got the benefits and best value? Seemingly not. They havent even answered their own questions. No answer to what happens if you don't have internet or computer despite them asking the question. Very disappointed with this approach. I suspect our Championship rivals will put us to shame. There will inevitably be a backlash. It might not be an avalanche of people with pitchforks demanding money but instead a sharp decline in future renewals. Reap what you sow I could buy into the community spirit stuff if I could see sacrifices being made by the very well paid players, coaches or executives. I don't see that though.

Every division should be treated the same and adopt the same approach. That's the idea behind The Football League. Member clubs big or small each have a share and a say. If one division cannot conclude due to Covid then none should conclude. If 3 can conclude then they should pool their resources (vast) to ensure the rest can conclude. If it was 1985 the whole lot would have gone. The only reason the top 2 are continuing is due to the obscene amount of money on offer that clubs are now utterly dependent on, meaning they have to do as instructed by the media companies or risk them pulling the plug on funding. Anyone who thinks the top 2 divisions are carrying on because they want to do the right thing, boost morale or whatever excuse they come out with needs to get a grip. Sky want like football and they will make sure they get it to their captive audience sat at home with nothing else to do. Good news for those who enjoy their football on TV but bad news for the league pyramid and its future. A frankly laughable situation with different leagues doing all different things. It is a disgrace. Once again the governing bodies nowhere to be seen allowing clubs to make their own minds up on what happens.

I expect there will be some sort of rescue package put in place using some of the media and Premier League money to at least give the impression that the rich clubs have 'done their bit' to try and avoid disaster for the minnows. Unfortunately this may not be enough, and it will also probably come with caveats that the small clubs will be unable to resist. Expect Guardiola's desire for B teams in the Football League or feeder clubs to gain ground. Expect rule changes e.g. permanent mid season breaks, more power for the Prem clubs etc. All sold to the public as a necessary evil to stop clubs going bust.