People seem to be inclined to credit Venkys for continuing to pay the bills as though they are happily doing this because they are kind and benevolent people. They are meeting their responsibilities as majority shareholders for meeting running costs, the vast majority of which they have increased through their decision making and ineptitude over several years. The alternative to putting that money in is clear. Option one is that they put the club into administration, option two is that they liquidate the club. Either of those means that they lose control of it and either way they will never get remotely close to recouping the money they've lost to date. Its like me buying a house, leaving the property to go to rack and ruin for 5 years, but meeting the mortgage payments, and then going back after 5 years and coughing up some more money to repair it and make it habitable. I'd have little to no choice but to do it and shoulder the cost of doing it. The alternative would be handing the keys back to the bank or being left with a house that was worthless and uninhabitable. What Venkys are doing is basically that but on a much larger scale. Meeting the bills and mortgage costs (which they've little choice about) and then allowing a bit more in when persuaded to do so to try and build up some more value in the club and improve its condition moving forward. I accept that they are putting their money in and it is a substantial amount each month, but I'm not grateful to them for doing it as I don't think they've much choice and I also think the majority of losses even now could be reduced if they had put a more competent structure in place some time ago. For example our revenues are relatively small yet the commercial side of the club has been woefully short of the level required for some time. I'm also not particularly worried about the debt situation that people at other clubs seem to obsess about as they've no chance of getting that money back.

I could see it coming when we sold him that he would come on leaps and bounds and that it would prove to be a foolish decision to let him go so easily. And that is how it has transpired. Plenty of people on here at the time saying it was the right decision to let him go or saying that the money we got was too good to turn down, which was nonsense. The only mugs here are Rovers who allowed such a talent to transfer to a rival club for a low fee.

Promotion missed for Boro after £50 million spend last summer. Not to worry, Steve Gibson is a great bloke so no chance of an embargo.

Source?

I'm still not entirely comfortable with it being the manager of the team who has to fly around the world to 'humbly' request funding from the owners to improve the squad following promotion. It goes without saying that investment of some sort is required if we are to survive, even if that is just additional wages to bring in loans and free agents along Championship lines rather than League One. Things are done in reverse at this club. It isn't really the manager's place in a club these days to go cap in hand to try to persuade the owners to invest money. The owners and their advisors should already have a budget and plan moving forward, this plan should remain regardless of who the manager is or how 'humble' he is in his meetings with them. I do worry that perhaps our entire short to medium term future hinges on how Mowbray comes across in his meetings with them. If he impresses them and they like what he says then some money should be made available but if they aren't convinced then we're knackered. Venkys should have a plan and a target and they should work to that with the manager, an employee, tasked with delivering targets from that. Nothing wrong with face to face meetings with the manager but it seems each year he doesn't have the foggiest idea until he gets to sit down and talk to them.

I don't like Fulham fans or the 'culture' down there with their neutral end and clappers. Saying that I expect they'll go up. They went close last year and have benefited from keeping hold of all their best players and decent manager despite not getting promoted (what a strange concept) rather than selling all their quality players and not replacing them. Shows that it isn't inevitable that you sell all your assets if you don't go up. They've had Premier League clubs knocking for Cairney and Sessegnon but have resisted and will probably now reap the rewards of that.

I've no idea what wages he will be on, only that if fit and anywhere near his form in his first spell here he would solve a lot of problems up front for us. Surely Boro cutbacks are inevitable if they don't go up? We had to slash and burn our squad to achieve FFP compliance, they blew a large chunk of their parachute cash on transfer fees alone last summer (rumoured £50 million). Not forgetting a considerable spend last time they were here under Karanka. Getting that one rule for us another rule for everyone else feeling again. Lost count of the number of times I heard Rovers had an unsustainable wage bill and had to make cutbacks when promotion was missed and yet other clubs who go way beyond what we did manage to avoid sanctions.

https://www.rovers.co.uk/news/2018/may/rovers-confirm-retained-list/ So discussions ongoing with Conway and Graham, Ward and Feeney no deal. Surprised with the Graham one as I was sure that when he signed it was a 2 year deal with the option of a 3rd year, so it seems they are negotiating a new one rather than invoking the 3rd year on his existing one. Unless they need Venky approval to do that first.

Yeah, just that something changed massively in that summer. One minute things seemed to work quite nicely with Bowyer going to India to speak to Mrs Desai, the next he isn't going to India, communications break down and they start selling his best players. This all seemed to coincide with Pasha's arrival. Which one(s) of the family decided to increase his presence whilst culling the board down to just Cheston. I suspect it all comes down to trust. Whether they lost faith in Bowyer after he failed to get us promoted, or one of the family took control of things and didn't like him, who knows. But that summer was the watershed when the chaos began again, and I'm not particularly confident a similar thing won't happen again in future when they get bored or fancy a change.

Gestede would be an ideal signing. Middlesbrough will have to make cutbacks this summer if they don't go up (unless they are allowed to spend £50 million and miss promotion under FFP rules?).

I think the chaos was less the presence of Coyle and Lambert but more the removal of Bowyer. Let us not forget that they got lucky in some ways with Bowyer, who stepped in at a crucial time, picked up enough points to ensure survival and following that went straight out to India to speak directly to the owners - following that Shebby and Agnew were removed and the club appeared to adopt a more conventional approach and things settled down for a couple of seasons (as they seem to have done in the last 18 months). For the 2 full Bowyer seasons complaints about the owners went quiet as most people focused on an ultimately doomed push for the play-offs. My interest is in the period between the end of Bowyer's 2nd season in May 2015 and then the sacking of Bowyer in November 2015, which ushered in another period of instability as unsuitable managers were brought in by persons unknown. Also during that period we saw the departures of Shaw and Myers with Cheston stepping in to do everything himself. Lambert unsuitable because he had ambitions beyond what these owners were prepared to match and Coyle because he was inept and should never have been anywhere near the club. Strange goings on with different people involved throughout and mysterious behaviour from those in India.

Again, nobody knows that. We might not think it is likely to happen, we might not like the idea of paying 2nd division players that, but that might be what Venkys make available or what is deemed to be necessary. If we want to get back to the Premier League the likelihood is at some stage we are going to have to pay wages in that ball park. One thing Venkys have generally been good it is paying wages. It's transfer fees they seem to dislike. I don't know but I wouldn't be surprised if Evans, Graham and Mulgrew are getting towards £15k a week a piece in the Championship, so is £20k a week so ludicrous to expect?

Its more of an achievement than getting relegated to League One. Cairney has been attracting Premier League interest with reported offers of £20 million. I think people are becoming distracted by our success in League One. After we sold those players we plummeted, and they would all improve our squad should they return.

Nobody knows what budget we have. Not even Mowbray and possibly not even Venkys yet. Pointless discussing merits of financial outlays when cash available could range from none to millions. If Sheffield Wednesday can pay £10 million for Rhodes and a reported £40,000 a week I'd love someone to explain how we couldn't pay half his wage on loan, if we wanted him.

Again not strictly true. Numerous clubs in the Championship have had players attracting Premier League interest, for whatever reason it doesn't materialise, and the player then knuckles down and gets on with it. One example off the top of my head - Hugill at PNE - went as far as submitting a transfer request last summer but PNE stood firm as they weren't prepared to let him go and so he stayed until January and played for them - then West Ham came in and he was sold for good money in a deal that suited everyone (rather than selling him to a rival for less).

Hmmm. Hanley was part of a Newcastle squad that won the league the season after leaving us and has since become a regular at Norwich (mid-table side). Marshall last seen at play-off chasing Millwall where he earned rave reviews. Cairney has become captain and most important player at Fulham who have been in promotion contention for 2 years. Rovers have suffered a lot more than those players we sold who have at least remained mid-table Championship players if not improved.

Yet they are in the 3rd division and are a shambles. Having parachute money got them nowhere last season. So definitely not higher up the food chain.

Depends on what you class as the 'food chain'. Premier League clubs yes, and I'd have no problem with departures to those, but which Championship clubs are we considering as 'higher up the food chain'? In my view none of them should be. Yes some are armed with parachute money but that doesn't inevitably mean we will lose our best players to them. I worry we're getting into a 'them and us' mindset of us being smaller fry and others as 'bigger fish' who can come along and pluck our best players. Of course it all comes from what approach our owners take, if they want us to be a selling club who loses better players to rivals then that's their decision, the alternative is we fight tooth and nail to compete with these clubs and don't entertain approaches from them for our players. The evidence of recent years with Rhodes, Cairney, Marshall, Hanley and Duffy is that they will entertain such attention, but i don't accept it is inevitable or unavoidable. Plenty of non-parachute clubs fight to keep their talent and succeed in doing so. Sunderland aren't higher up the food chain and if people running this club believe that to be so then we're in trouble.

I'm of the view that the step up isn't massive. If you look at how ourselves and Wigan have run away with this league, reaching 96 points+ each, winning games on a regular basis even when not playing well, that tells me that we've been a level above in this league, thanks partly to retaining the core of squads from the Championship. I think even with limited additions and investment we should compete in the Championship. It might take significantly more to think about threatening the top end, but again there's plenty of evidence to suggest that money and investment is a side-issue - Norwich, Hull, Forest, Sheffield Wed, Sunderland - all struggled last season despite big budgets or parachute money whilst Brentford, Millwall, PNE, Cardiff all performed well without.

I'll give you McCormack but then again Fulham themselves signed him from Leeds for £11 million a couple of years earlier. Malone joined Huddersfield after they were promoted - higher division = fair enough. Doubt Fulham would have sold him to Bristol City last summer.

Yes, to Leicester a team a league above them. Brighton massively in debt to their owner who poured fortunes in to get them promoted and admitted himself they'd have probably failed Ffp rules if they missed promotion (though would have probably fought an embargo rather than accept it as we did). Fulham owe £100 million+ to their owner. They finished below us the season before we decided to sell our best player to them for a knock-down fee without even consulting our manager. An extra few thousand through the doors every week won't account for millions on new players. Every club in the Championship loses millions a year. We aren't a special case on that front. Thanks to these owners we're one of a very small number who decided to try and solve it by selling everyone decent. The direct consequence was relegation and millions more lost. Anyhow, I think we're getting off track. My point was that some (Chaddy) are convincing themselves that these owners won't dream of selling Dack or others to rivals for a fee like £3 million. My point stands that they've a very recent record of doing exactly that, so i wouldn't be surprised at all if they did it again when it suits them.

Is it a different situation? You tell me. I thought it was a different situation when Bowyer was manager, then he was sacked and Coyle happened. We had a CEO in place when Cairney was sold. Derek Shaw was his name. Didn't stop a player being sold behind the manager's back. Every Championship club is a selling club? Tell me when the last time Fulham sold a key player to a Championship rival? Villa? Derby? Preston?

Default setting of any Telegraph reporter is to say 'nothing in it'.

Surely you're not still falling for that old chestnut that all those players had their heads turned by other clubs and pushed to leave? It was the club who wanted them gone and they went. Not the other way around. The evidence for that is the way the £30 million disappeared not to be seen again. Clubs that reluctantly lose their better players generally follow that up with a signal of intent by replacing them, not pocketing the dosh and replacing with trash. The club wanted them sold. By the time Marshall, Hanley and Duffy (our last 3 decent players) were bundled out the door to Championship rivals the club and owners had made their intentions abundantly clear by getting shut of Cairney, Gestede, Rhodes and Olsson with no reinvestment along with the Lambert fiasco and appointing a clown like Coyle as manager. Those decent players left knew full well the club was going one way and the owners wanted the £30 million that came with it. I recall people making comments about 'grass being greener' when Ben Marshall left Wolves to go to Millwall in January yet last time i checked he went on to play a central role in them rocketing up the table and nearly making the play-offs. Millwall and their fans very impressed by his contributions to a team that finished in the top 10 of the Championship last season, so another one who I'd class as 'decent'.

Perhaps worth bearing in mind that both Fulham and Brighton (clubs we actively sold our best players to) posted losses on a similar level to ours and owe similar amounts to their owners as we do/did. Difference with them was they were/are serious about getting promotion. So sales weren't inevitable, they were optional as a means of clawing back lost cash. The fact those players went on to be successful and worth a lot more than we sold them for goes to show what a shortsighted and flawed policy it was. Had we kept them, built around them and seriously gone for promotion the chances are we'd have gone up instead of those clubs or if not we'd have had Cairney etc. worth 5 or 6 times what we actually sold him for. So we got the triple whammy - selling best players for less than they could have fetched - weakening ourselves massively - strengthening rivals massively. My view is that if you ignore or try to justify their behaviour between 2015 and 2017 and instead focus all your attentions on what they did from 2017-present then you're leaving yourself open to major disappointment. Every club is a selling club insofar as a bigger club in a higher league wants one of your players then you're going to struggle to keep him. But when you're actively following a policy of selling all your best players to whoever wants them from the same division then that isn't acceptable. To my knowledge no club in the Championship has embarked on such a firesale of quality as we did to league rivals. Plenty sell the odd player or two mainly to higher divisions but that isn't what we did.