44 minutes ago, speeeeeeedie said:

The moral argument that top level footballers earn too much money is strong. Yet from an economic point of view they are paid on the principle of scarcity therefore the market decides. 

Are they "demanding" it? Maybe, maybe not. Are they greedy? Some probably are, but all of them will take what is offered after negotiating. The club has info, the player has info, the agent has info. That all comes together and a price is set.

I've no idea how true it is but I do like the old Seth Johnson transfer story. He was going to Leeds from Derby. He and his agent were going to ask for £20K per week. In walks Ridsdale and says; "How about £30K per week Seth?" He was hardly going to say no was he?

Clubs are in it to win trophies, therefore they need the best players who cost more.

The sheer amount of money washing around the game due to billionaire owners, massive TV deals, merchandising and the like is allowing this to happen. If the money is contributing to cheaper tickets, better facilities, nicer grounds then great, but it doesn't seem to be.

Of course this will be happening from a load of different angles. In some cases players will demand more in some cases clubs will give players bumper contracts without being asked. It's in no way all the players fault but they're not entirely blameless. 

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

But are we shareholders of the club, if the government introduce fan ownership law then we can became part owner in the club we love. 

Its down to each club to run the club financially viable and if their owner that is willing to invest in the club through their own money and not loans from banks than I all for it. Just look at Manchester City owners and the investment they have made in the club, training ground facilities, academy and local area. We shouldn't be against people investing money in their clubs. Just look at Jack Walker and the amount of investment he made in his club. Without that we wouldn't have won the PL or the league cup. 2 of my greatest days as a Supporter of this club. 

Do Wage caps work in league 1 or 2?

I'm not against investment at all. But if you have e.g. man City paying players whatever they want, that drives everyone's wages up (look how much I could earn at City, pay me that or I'm off) and this affects everyone even those outside of the PL. Wasn't Tosin, a youth player on more than most of our squad? We had to pay that because the citys of the world have driven up wages. Clubs like us have had our wage bills driven up by a lot more than our revenues have risen. 

A wage cap won't work unless it's universal across the major leagues. There's no point putting a wage cap on league 2 if all the financial resource is in the PL. That just means better players are unaffordable for league 2 increasing the quality gap. Likewise it won't work if only the PL have a cap because all the talent will sod off to Spain/Germany/Italy etc. 

Nothing against people investing in club, just the wage inflation that comes with it. A salary cap wouldn't have stopped Jack buying the club, spending on players and investing in the training facilities etc. 

20 minutes ago, speeeeeeedie said:

Docking points punishes the players

But you could argue that players demanding more and more money has in part driven the owners to look at new, drastic ways of bringing money in.  

Edit: guess my point is that greed is the underlying cause of this and many problems in football and its more than just the owners who have greed. 

26 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Also any sanctions will affect the clubs players, managers and fans who have no part in these plans

I had no say in the running of rovers but had to sit through us being under a transfer embargo. 

27 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

If Clubs can afford those wages then fair enough

Nope. Player wages have forced up the cost of running a club which has pushed them into forming a breakaway league. 

Also it creates huge wage inflation which the big clubs and the big revenues can afford but that inflation trickles down the whole football pyramid. 

5 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

If they want to sort out the problems facing them, the big 5 leagues need to come together and agree a universal salary cap.

Paying De Bruyne £400k a week isn't sustainable.

Absolutely agree. Money to an extent improves football through the improvements to infrastructure, coaching etc but KDB will be just as good to watch on £100k as he would on £400k. 

Apart from being nice for him. It just puts the price up for fans in every way. Owners could maybe turn a profit if they have the same broadcast revenue but a fraction of the wage bill. 

Even supporters of the 6 clubs are fed up. I know a few fans of those clubs calling for points deduction / champions league ban. 

None of the excuses should be taken seriously. This isn't something they stumbled on by accident and made a genuine error or judgment in the heat of the moment. This is something they've been cooking up in secret for months. It's a 100+ page contract. It's been fully thought out, they just didn't anticipate this level of back lash. The fact they were doing it without supporter consultation says it all. 

Woodward gone. 

A lines been crossed, this is not over. Proper reform is needed to club ownership, player wages and agent regulation.

Absolutely agree there needs to be sanctions. This isn't some spur of the moment thing they misjudged this was a conscious premeditated attempt to seize the game to which they didn't anticipate this level of opposition. 

These clubs now realise that they cant just do what they want, that needs reinforced with a strong punishment. 

Rumours on twitter that one of the big 6 is getting cold feed and starting to wobble. Wonder who it is. 

Ruling out Spurs and Arsenal, they need the money and the status. Utd have ridden out worse so between city Liverpool and Chelsea for me. 

I'm thinking on the same lines as Dreams. It's the nuclear option, nuke it and start again. The alternatives are these 12 leveraging more money and power somehow whether it be the ESL or concessions by UEFA. So cut them off. See how they cope without the rest of the pyramid to poach players from or send their academy kids on loan to at a cost. 

It would be great if the gov would put up funds to help the pyramid restructure and downscale to get back to a new normal. It would be a huge vote winner so not something to rule out, imagine Boris being able to boast about saving football. Excluding the prem it would be peanuts in the scheme of things. It would be chaos but everyone would be in the same boat. One club having to slim down is bad but if every club has to, that puts a massive downward pressure on wages and other costs that hopefully we'd come out relatively unscathed. 

Personally I'd rather reform the major leagues as outlined above. Put salary caps in place etc and then maybe the likes of the SPL and the Dutch league with big names clubs could get somewhere close to being competitive. I'd rather not dismantle what little is left of the SPL by bringing them into England. 

If the ESL goes ahead it needs to be separate to domestic football. If these clubs are getting 300m a season that drives up player fees, and will create huge wage inflation that trickles down the pyramid, it'll kill the game. 

Reform is needed and for me there's three things that need to happen 

1. Follow the German model of being 51% fan owned. 

2. Salary caps

3. Regulations placed on agents. 

It's a viscioous circle, as football gets more money, players and agents demand more which means owners want more money. 

Money in football is a double edged sword. On one hand we can improve stadiums, do outreach work, invest heavily in coaching and training infrastructure and this all improves the game. Pogba demanding 500k a game doesn't. 

I get there's a business side to it as well but I think football clubs could be profitable if you limit what you spend on wages and agent fees. You're not going to ruin the game by limiting what players can earn (as long as all the major leagues adopt it). 

James Milner post match interview "I don't like it, I hope it doesn't happen" 

He made a valid point its not just these 6 clubs. Uefa and fifa have all been pushing their own competitions with money the mian object. 

For too long the game has been all about the broadcasters and the money and this I'm afraid is not just a toe over the line but a giant leap and I hope it's a catalyst for change 

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Bruno Fernandes is the first one. Wonder how many more will today or tomorrow?

Dunno Im holding out for Klopp or Pep to absolutely rage about it. They've both played the game and achieved everything they need to as managers they don't have to worry about saying something their employer doesn't like as neither have to work again really so I'm hoping it comes from them. 

I think a lot of players will be up in arms about this. Yes there will be the ones who only care about money but there are others who are also football fans who won't like where this is going. All it takes is one or two to speak out first and I think the flood gates will open. 

I know hes not everyone's cup of tea but he speaks a lot of sense I find. 

What is with the timing of spurs sacking Jose. I totally get the view that you might not want him to manage your club but if you wanted someone in charge for a one off cup final surely he'd be well up there. I know that he's not what he was but I still think he's capable of pulling off a decent result every now and then. Now they might get a manager or a care taker who can play the nice football they want which will get torn apart by City. 

They've literally thrown away their best chance of getting a trophy in ages. 

50 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

It makes me smile if fans think they are going to have any say in this or try to stop it. The wealthy have made their decision and the plebs will have to go along with it 

You're absolutely right. The only way that this won't got ahead is if there is some kind of player / manager revolut and it needs to be the big name glamour players. 

I can see players like Jordan Henderson not agreeing with it and potentially speaking out against it but it needs your A-listers to not want to play in it. Imagine if it was shunned by the likes of Pep. You'd hope that enough of these players are not THAT far removed from what the game means and what the fans want. 

5 minutes ago, davulsukur said:

"The Europeansuper league is an excellent idea Steve, not sure about the new housing estates though?"

I've got images of him salivating at the prospect of turning nou camp into a shopping centre "Barca can stadium share with one of the Madrids and we can move Lidl into the North Stand" 

Was thinking the same Dreams. As soon as you have ESL appearance you are unable to play in the regular league. You'd hope it would put a lot of people off going there because if the move doesn't work out you either play for Arsenal or no one at all. Either way your career is over. 

There needs to be a hard stance on this and if it sets football back 30 years that might not be the worst thing in the world. 

7 minutes ago, riverholmes said:

I hope, globally, fans oppose this. An international campaign is needed

From what I've seen across social media, I can't see much if any support for this but I don't think it'll be down to the fans. I think everyone in football including players and managers need to speak out against this. 

3 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

They will sanction the clubs and ban players from World Cups and playing for their country. Plus no official body has sanction this league to happen at all. So can't happen. 

I really hope they do but I don't think they will. 

I don't see how this can end well now. If it goes ahead, the bodies have to call their bluff and follow through with their threats but if we go down that path I think we'll end up with two footballs like we have two darts and two rugbys. If it goes ahead and threats aren't followed through, more money and power sits with those clubs again. 

If it doesn't go ahead the only reason it won't go ahead is because all these clubs have been given massive concessions in terms or money and power which they already have. 

It'll be interesting to see what players and managers say about it. They tried to get ole last night but he hid behind the "I haven't seen it, we were preparing for this game". However they've announced it when there's Premier league games through the week. It'll be interesting to see what the likes of Klopp say tonight when the emotion is still running high.