Well done South Africa. Good job going down 3-1 in Burkina Faso.

Chill out. He basically said that people can do what they like as long as other people are taken into consideration, which I don't think anybody here can disagree with. He then named a few chants he didn't particularly liked but didn't say they were the problem. The only problem comes if people feel uncomfortable at a game as a result of other people.

This thread only serves to reinforce the stereotype that Chesh is ace. How anybody can actually fail a GCSE is completely beyond me.

That wouldn't prove whether or not you were a chav though, would it?

|I'd like to point out that lots of people like to have a beer, a laugh and a sing at away games without throwing things at other supporters and having things thrown at them.

That's a point I made before the game as well. Mokoena has always been excellent at protecting the defence when we have been under the cosh away from home. Plus, this was Tugay's third game in a week. He's an excellent outlet at home where we need to break down defences but away from home we could do with that added steel in midfield which Mokoena provides very well.

If every appeal had to be referred to a computer umpire then the bowling side could appeal every bowl to completely slow down a match if they were, say, looking for a draw. I don't think they'll ever do away with two human umpires. I've been impressed with how well they've done all summer. Bowden, for example, could have easily given us a bad decision with so many close appeals at Old Trafford under the pressure of the crowd and the situation of play, but he was justified in his not outs. I think Australia will come out all guns blazing at The Oval. Despite the way we've performed in the pressure situations of the last three tests, this will be our greatest examination. I refuse to believe that Hayden and Gilchrist are going to play an entire series with such a pathetic whimper.

Pedersen is an excellent header of a ball. He's got to be one of the most dangerous people to have in the box from a corner at that side. He was doing nothing being stuck in the corner giving Savage an extra yard to cross from. I don't have so much of a problem with that type of corner if it's worked so that we've a two-on-one trying to dribbline into the box and get close to goal but it wasn't. It should have been abandoned as soon as Savage hit the man ten yards away.

I don't have a problem at all with the singing inside the ground. All power to them. I didn't sit with them but I've been near them before and they always sing for the team. We also sang in our little section and supported the team. We went for a drink beforehand and had a sing in the pub. There's not a problem with that at all. The only problem is that they didn't know the line between having a good time and getting everybody into trouble. For one, we were at an away ground, heavily outnumbered, and penned into the carpark with nowhere to go. I was sat on the coach and we could see it coming a mile off. Antagonising that amount of people was stupid because somebody will react. And when people react then others get involved. Of course they were outnumbered, they were at a bloody away ground. As I've said, I could care less if Wez etc sing all game long because we're all supporters. I do care, though, if they provoke what they did on Saturday and start lobbing things around. It wasn't one-sided at all - the traffic cone was going forwards and backwards and the Villa fans were not the only ones to throw things. Birdy stopped a few people getting an absolute kicking. The sad thing is, if the people involved actually believe that they were completely innocent and simply the victims of this all then they're deluded. If they'd hung around waiting to get onto the coach in a sensible manner then nobody would have got a brick in their face. Both sides have to accept responsibility and have to accept that people were kept back for an hour after the match as a result of their actions, which made a lot of people unhappy. I'm willing to bet some people will think twice about attending away matches as a result of this. And that's a situation we just don't need. And it doesn't make them crap fans because they don't want to be involved in being filmed by the police and having things thrown near them. It just makes them human.

Great decision. Was clearly hitting the top of middle.

Fair play sing through the match and have some pre-game banter in the pub. Doesn't bother me in the slightest. But after the match I was ###### off and wanted to go home and I couldn't because two sets of fans were playing silly buggers. It's the fault of both sets of fans and that's what people are taking exception to.

The gangster wannabes are usually good for a laugh but when it means we're sat behind on the coach for an hour then it's annoying. If you want to prove how hard you are, join a boxing club. See how far standing there with your arms in the air taunting people then trying to run away gets you there.

Vinjay, why don't YOU build up a multi-million pound fortune and buy the club yourself?

Just got a world class download. Premiership, Division One and Scottish teams available and pretty well uptodate. The only problem is that the stats are back to their original selves, which means a few hours of tinkering to make the good players good again.

I imagined it going like this: Vinjay: I think the Walkers should give us more money. JW: Me too.

Not going to churn out a long match report this time because a lot of people have done a very good job. Just want to point out that the turning point was, IMO, the Savage booking. Beforehand he was throwing himself about, making West Ham uncomfortable and getting the crowd wound up. We were up for the fight and West Ham were a bit startled. His senseless booking meant that he had to be on his best behaviour from then onwards and they slowly got themselves a foothold in our midfield and went from there. By the second half, they were overpowering us in that area with ease. Hughes did sense this and the 4-5-1 was the right call. We immediately looked better, albeit less likely to score a goal with a half-fit Bellamy on his own and lacking physical presence or decent srevice. It was the slack marking for Reo-Coker's goal which undid us because we could no longer use the 4-5-1 and had to gamble on 4-4-2 to get us another goal.

If Bell keeps going and Flintoff keeps his head then 450 is definitely achievable. However, the Aussies have a new ball and they will be fired up this morning. They very rarely lose two days in a row. More patience required. Freddie can bat. Bell can bat. Geraint can bat. Harmy and Simon can have a thrash. We aren't in a bad position here - we have runs on the board and bowlers who can bowl at anything. I just hope we don't get skittled off early and then be forced to watch Australia bat for two days.

Did any of you Aussies believe before the tests started that you may contemplated hoping for rain?

166 for Vaughan. Can't complain because he's had more lives than a cat. Great innings for the lad and he has given England a platform for a big first innings score.

Pressure's off now Well done Michael.

I cannot believe you said that. You're totally responsible if he doesn't get one now.

I remember when Veron and Beckham played at Old Trafford. One of them would stand on the goal-line and the other would stand on the halfway line and they would volley the ball to each other without it ever hitting the ground. It was so demoralising as a fan watching that and thinking "there's no way our players are capable of doing that".

Excellent news that we've won the toss. Bad news about McGrath and Lee. We can't afford to be afraid of Glenn now. We can't rely on winning in his absence - the Aussies have to be shown that we can beat their best team.

The general rule is that a lot of people vocally disagree with Scotty, even though he's an excellent poster IMO. For example, thenodrog. Manchester Blue does it a lot too, but that's a marital thing.

That could open the world's biggest box of frogs. Just spend a bit of time around here and it will become very apparent. If you're that interested, look at any thread in ICBINF with political connotations, and just wait for a few of the big issues to get re-discussed on here. It tends to cycle every few months.