bluebruce

I seem to remember that was just in one area? Could be wrong. But as Bigdogsteel said, there are lies, damned lies and statistics. Bennett played in multiple positions for starters, so if his stats include his time elsewhere it's hugely misleading. Not that all stats are bollocks, you just can't hang everything on them. They're a handy guide if you know how to read them, and use your actual eyes too. I was trying to see if I could find the stats you were talking about on that optasportspro site. Interestingly, what I did see was Lenihan was 6th in the league for winning the ball back and starting a play sequence. 4th for just centre backs. I had a look at just full backs and Bennett wasn't there. It only shows the top 10 though for each position, so not necessarily any shame in that. Liam Cooper and Pontus Jansson, both for Leeds, were the top two centre backs for this stat. Jansson's tackles won per 1000 opposition touches was head and shoulders ahead of everyone else, at 3.21. Cooper's was closest, at 2.28. Seems like Brentford have played a blinder there. Would've been very happy if we could've made that one happen. Edit - just found Bennett by searching for wingers instead. I'm sure it's conflated his stats with his time at full back and centre mid too though, but it has him at number one (for the same stat, of winning the ball and starting a sequence of play). Tbf, as a defensive winger, he does a good job, my eyes agree. Just doesn't offer enough going forward, generally. I find him an odd one...effort wise, he is NEVER found wanting. But his quality with the ball at his feet varies wildly. Sometimes he does genuinely excellent things, other times...well.

Do you also believe in Bennett? And do you want to run with 'there's a player in there' all season at LB, with Derrick 'A Player Is Nowhere To Be Found At Left Back' Williams as the backup? I can stomach us running with potential weakness on one flank, but not both. There's also the issue that whilst you and I believe in Nyambe, it's under serious question whether TM does. He does, however, believe in Bennett, whose other positions have seen competition arrive since January. It seems likely Bennett will be first choice at RB at the start of the season and possibly much longer.

It's probably unrealistic now, unless there's a lot been done in the background and more budget than we think. But it should have been a goal to bring in at least 2, I'd say 3, defenders this summer. This isn't a new expectation people are springing on the manager, it's what they've wanted all summer. It staggers me that some people truly think just one centre half and a different goalie will fix the woeful defence we had last season to a degree where we can expect playoffs. The vaunted new system may ease some pressure but I think people are forgetting just how many atrocious goals we conceded. At this stage, we are probably going to have to accept one CB (having lost two). As long as that's a good centre half (and the goalie is good) I think we can expect around mid table to top 10. Then we will be lamenting our defensive options by the January window. Maybe we will reinforce there at that stage and kick on. Someone who can effectively play either full back position would be ideal, but I accept they're very rare. Or a CB who can do a good enough job in one of the full back slots, to act as cover almost wherever for when injury or form necessitates a change. Like a better Williams. Another problem with signing only one defender - what if they simply aren't as good as we expect, or they get injured? Yes all signings carry those risks, but it would leave us with last year's defence effectively, who weren't effective.

Never heard that one before! He was so good that most of us were shocked we were signing some Liverpool reserve called Friedel (lord forgive us, we weren't to know). I suspect you might be thinking of, or conflated Filan with, Fettis. Who was utter dog shit.

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/news/17773682.expected-feature-rovers-mansfield-rfiendly/ This LT article mentions Carson is one of a number of options being considered. It also says we could sign two keepers, and are considering going overseas, getting a premier league loanee, or a young up-and-comer.

Hmm that can be a recurring problem for pacy players, as young Chapman is finding out. Hope it stays gone.

Yep, although injuries can be a concern sometimes, especially for players who use pace as a key part of their game. Any idea what kind of injuries?

So basically, you don't want anyone called Scott.

The u-23s have now had their friendly with Southport called off due to pitch resurfacing issues. Not saying there is some odd conspiracy (Southport have also cancelled their Blackpool fixture for starters) but this is weird. I can't remember this ever happening to us before? Now it's happened to our first and second team, at two different clubs. Maybe the same pitch consultant referred to in today's LT article about it advised both clubs?

Obviously. But I was asking you about actual defenders, not a goalie. Yes they're a unit blah blah but so is the whole team. When I asked if you agree our defence needs more than one reinforcement, I'm talking about defenders. I think we need two.

True, but with the idea of utilising Graham's excellent hold up play and Arma's pace behind the lines. There were times we used it effectively, and times where it was poor and mind numbingly predictable.

Not if he concedes a bunch more from shots. Wouldn't mind him though.

He absolutely wasn't the best of a bad bunch with Yakubu. He was awful for us in the Prem. I remember him, Lowe and Hanley being the 3 players I felt were most responsible for our relegation (on the pitch anyway, obviously off-field causes were worse). He didn't get to stay in the Prem, he had one and a half seasons with us in the Championship. Like Hanley, he steadily got better in the Championship and started looking good. Once he did, he was off. He earned himself a move back to the Prem rather than getting to stay because he was good in it. Done very well since by all accounts.

I thought that. Probably the last thing he wants when he's tired.

Be fair. It's the Mowbray is thick/useless/deluded/flipflopping/perfect/infallible/saviour topic. Some on the board sit in the middle, looking for balance, picking fault where we see it and giving credit where we see it. To us, both camps frequently look ridiculous (constant negativity or constant positivity) but also make some good points. But that's life, people like to characterise things in extreme terms or morph everything they see to fit their preconceptions (even the balanced ones from time to time). Not trying to say I'm perfect btw, I do try to stay balanced (I imagine most like to think they do). But I know I've, at varying times over the years, been branded or taken for an apologist for the club/manager or a doom-monger depending on which views on a particular subject I expressed at the time. I think the place becomes so polarised that people end up fitting others into either camp based on them saying a particular negative or positive thing. Don't get me wrong, some people have consistently shown they belong in a given camp (not naming names).

Hmm, so the talk of shunting him onto the wing got me wondering, did Brum shunt him there? According to the stats I found, they did on 4 occasions. So if you write those off (yes goals can be scored from the wing but it's a lot harder) he scored 7 goals in 30 appearances as a striker for them. That's just under 1 in 4. Not great, about what you expect from an averageish or slightly poor striker perhaps. However, in his season with us he notched 12 goals in 46, which is just over 1 in 4. Point being, not actually too dissimilar so he may not have fallen off as badly as suggested. Changes in system or just a bit of bad luck can sometimes account for that level of discrepancy. One thing with those stats though, transfermarket says he only played one game at left wing for us that season? I thought it was more though. Maybe he moved around during games? Also 4 assists for us and none for Brum in either role. Still, it has made me feel slightly more upbeat that he might not have regressed as much as we think in the goalscoring stakes. Maybe the right team, environment and system for him can bring more out of him, as I do expect a bit more than 1 in 4 really. He does also have a bit of a nuisance factor.

Yeh I've argued the same thing. My only reservation about the Gally signing is whether it swallows too much of the budget to get the best we can in the areas in dire need. If there is loads left in the kitty then fair play. Cheap recruits though will imply they used the bulk of the budget on a less urgent area before seeing if it'd be needed elsewhere, hamstringing our options. That would be bad planning (though obviously cheap recruits can still work out great, and can also be the best available...yes it will only imply the planning was bad - unless they're clearly subpar - as we'll never know the target priority). Decent money recruits will mean they knew what they were doing with the budget all along. Will just have to see how it all shakes out.

Just the usual for the most part, and we already knew he wants more faces...at least he is saying 'a few' though, which has to mean at least three. Personally I hope even if it's 4 that they are all goalies and defenders. We are amply stocked everywhere else.

I already explained why I would be unhappy in detail, so why are you asking me why I would be unhappy? Treat my question there as rhetorical, you're obviously happy for us to go through the whole 'our defence needs rebuilding' saga again next year, I'm not, so there's no point us discussing that further. Would you at least agree our defence needs more than one player as reinforcement?

I think you're completely misunderstanding me. I was also talking about how, if all we get is a loan, it won't be an overreaction to be unhappy with that.

It won't be an overreaction to be unhappy and concerned with not signing any defenders permanently. It will just be a reaction. It's the weakest part of our team by a country mile and we really don't want to be back to square one on it again next year because we only loaned someone, and with Mulgrew even older and slower. If we end up only loaning it's because we misallocated our budget. I don't know how you could think otherwise. Loan to buy, on a good centre half, will be grudgingly acceptable to me. Could still end up in that same position I described though. We need at least two defenders anyway.

No. If we don't fix the defence it will be on his head. I keep seeing quite a lot of people talking about whether we will sign a goalkeeper and centre half. IMO it's super obvious we will. I'd be beyond shocked if we didn't. Simply signing a defender and a keeper isn't what concerns me. It's imperative we sign a better keeper than Raya, and a bare minimum of one centre half better than anyone we've got there now (possibly except Lenihan). Between them, they'll also need to be able to marshal our defence better. It's also important that we own both of these players. If we sign players that don't fit these criteria, the window has been a fail for me. Tbh I think we need two defenders of the stated quality. Don't mind if we loan one as long as we own one too. Don't mind if the second is a CB or fullback. Don't mind one goalie on loan as long as we own the other (otherwise we will have to do this all again next year). I really hope I don't see us sign some keeper who doesn't improve on Raya and one CB kid on loan from the Prem and see people herald it as a big 'we told you so'. If that is the outcome we get, it will mean the budget has been mismanaged, and no amount of spin will convince most of us otherwise.

There's a huge difference between 'it's getting out of hand' and 'bigdog doesn't like it'. He HAS backtracked on some things. Most notably, how badly we need defenders, and the expected efficacy of the European scouting network. I'm not accusing him of lying. Backtracking isn't even inherently negative in my eyes, depends what it is. The European scouting network? A shame, a little worrying in terms of potentially delaying our progress and whether it is good enough to deliver in future, but ultimately just a case of overestimating how quickly/well it could be implemented. Not the end of the world for now. The remarks on defenders, switching from 'I don't have a defence and defenders are coming' to 'not a bigger priority than other areas'? Deeply, deeply worrying. If it isn't just barter talk, it could seriously hamper our prospects this year. Look, all people backtrack from time to time. Not doing can simply be a sign of being stubborn and refusing to accept reality. Much like pretending TM hasn't done some.

Behind closed doors win vs Rochdale Apparently the u-23s also played, beating Leeds (u-23s I expect). Adam scored one and assisted one for them.

Hmm ok maybe I'm misremembering and it was the scouting network in general he was talking about last summer.