Andrew Pickup.... "where farming tends to be more ethical".....Have you even heard of Foie Gras? "nor is it expensive" ......Do you know that the French farmers have historically have consistently and continually taken the giant's slice out of Eu agricultural subsidies? Small wonder it's cheap is it?

In what way?

I don't expect you to know this of course LeChuck but for the benefit of others it's fact that the worlds population has DOUBLED since Nov 22 1963 when Kennedy was assassinated. Thats less than half a century! So accepting that as fact then how tf do you think they are all going to be fed without employing modern farming methods? I'd gladly read your thoughts on the subject if you care to offer them rather than simply gobbing off indiscriminently. I won't be holding my breath though. btw adopt total organic / free range production in the UK and 50-60% would starve given the scenario that I outlined.

I've no argument with that other than humane killing should be practised at all times in this country. Rather than employ diversionary tactics please outline your objections to that Colin. As for those diversionary points consider the situation ........ 1. The great British housewife demands cheap food (btw food is too cheap by far in the UK.... it's so cheap that approx 30% goes direct from supermarket trolley to wheelibin uneaten! Hows that for a spoilt society?) 2. The supermarkets demand huge profits and don't care how they are made except to put stipulations in place so that should any food scares / human issues arise they can always pass the buck and wash their hands of the issue. 3. The Government is scared sh1tless of inflation and will sanction anything to avoid it. 4. After all these snouts in the trough the farmer and his family need to make a living from the left overs or there simply won't be any farmers. And that would lead to very very dangerous ground for any nation. Please rem Colin that should the Third Reich be resurrected and we find ourselves surrounded by U Boats intent in cutting off imports that 40% of the nation would starve to death! Simple fact and a sobering thought eh? In fact a Doomwatch issue if there was one. Despite all this factory farming which you object to so readily, and taking into account the millions of immigrants that you defend so readily the simple fact of the matter is that our agriculture simply cannot feed our population without cheap imports from overseas! And from frequently unregulated factory farms (and sweatshops)! Good job that we are snuggling up so cosily politically and militarily with Uncle Sam across the Globe I'm sure you will agree. Now in future I'd like you to change the habit of a lifetime and try to employ a modicum of thought before you post so glibly and irresponsibly.

Quite right too. It seems that the French have more about them than us these days. The French wont be bullied and duped like we are.

Bloody hell mellison! "Blue serge and a funny hat" AS was a PC Plod in his past life not effing Noddy!

I like Winner. He's a wum but he is very funny with it. btw He's right about pretentious restaurants too. Dining out should be a relaxing experience not an uncomfortable stuffed shirt affair.

Could you explain how you came by that notion? The current diversion is about a religion (not a race) which specifies ritual slaughter involving needless and pointless suffering and forbids modern humane slaughter methods. It is about hallal and kosher slaughter methods not bushmeat! Please give that some thought before commenting so flippantly in future.

Equally primitive. But then Judaism and Islam are from virtually the same stable aren't they?

Is it? Well..... One is currently necessary albeit to feed an irresponsibly growing population whilst the other is most definitely unnecessary. It is completely and totally indefensible and is a pathetic reminder of a backward and primitive religious custom, and one which even the most fervent follower of that religion could never logically justify.

KFC hallal ffs! Should be banned. Colonel Saunders will be spinning in his grave.

Correct. But often the threat of mob violence deters such actions. Maybe the club should send it's own stewards to away matches to monitor and identify the culprits and ban them home and away for a season or two. Alternatively reporting them to the police and providing hard evidence should result in prosecution and an example to the rest. Even better if this becomes a nationwide initiative and especially if the mob that represents MUaway find that their team have to play a few matches in front of empty seats.

I don't want to seem churlish but I don't think a minutes silence is necessary. Maybe some flowers laid behind the goal at the BB End by Nelsen but that should be it. I don't know the figures but every year it seems someone dies at the match (of natural causes obviously) but there is no minutes silence for them, even though it's just as tragic and upsetting for their families. Not long ago the minutes silence was an exceptional occurrence, unfortunately it's occurring more and more nowadays. Also lets not forget that the full circumstances of this incident are not known.

This is getting off topic and should be somewhere else sambo but exactly how do you complain when people are stood in front of you are invariably stood up because people are stood in front of them and so on? One just has to accept a resigned air and stand up too thereby spoiling the view of people behind. It's just completely selfish and ignorant and takes no account of women and children who cannot see nor the elderly or infirm who can not stand for long. Question for you sambo do you do that at the cinema?

No problem. Thanks for that Jisty.

Difficult when it's smuggled on coaches in a lemonade bottle. Also difficult when it may be more than just alcohol abuse.

Amen to that deryck. I go cold when I think of some of the escapes that I have had. Also a worry to have kids around that age not knowing what they are up to every minute of the day. I will when I see a retraction.

He's right Jim. If I'd been asked to guess who posted that without knowing, your name would have been the first I came up with. Not good is it?

From the reports on here of people who saw the distress of the eye witnesses (and also Abbeys original topic title) it sounds like it was only the life support that was keeping the poor chap alive. What a waste of a life. Incorrect. That went years ago. Correct with the second though.

@

Maybe the scheme could be introduced as a pilot scheme and restricted to JW ST holders only then Pafell. imo People sit on the JW stand and not behind the goals for two reasons. 1. A much better view of a match. and 2. To maintain as much distance as possible from sight and sound of the low life adolescents. Most people should mature away from the BBE in their 20's.

You've already crossed a very significant line by standing up! IT IS ILLEGAL! The thin end of this wedge is connected to fans standing without a doubt. Whether standing terraces are allowed or not is one thing but this is another matter. If there are no standing areas people must be made to sit down and that includes the numpties that follow MU who started the stupidity simply through defiant attitude. To turn a blind eye to such is to move the line in the sand that Lord Taylor drew up through complete necessity after Heyschel and Hillsborough. Basically it is giving way to lawlessness.

Chicken and egg Paul. As usual decent fans suffer but I will not condemn any club that has suffered from experience for treating visiting fans as animals. It's cruel to keep domesticated animals in cages but completely necessary for dangerous animals. I'm sure that Stoke's stewarding and policing will get even more anti personnel after this death but who the hell can blame them? For anybody who objects the only way is to do as you have done and cross Stoke City off your away menu....... Oldham copped it from me for the actions of the GMP, I've never been to Boundary Park since the overly heavy handed policing which ruined HT and kept us all locked in afterwards in the 80's. (btw Me and my mate beat the system by scaling the floodlight pylon and clambering over the fence ) Your tale is another reason to explore the possibility of two sections for away fans at some grounds. Once people begin to not enjoy the awayday experience and stop going they are difficult to persuade otherwise and long term it is not good for football and will prove to be another straw on the camels back.

Just as an aside and I'm not wanting to divert or lay any blame but what were the stewards doing if people were chucking wheelie bins around?

Why? I chose to make no comment on todays events other than the generalisation that that accident could have happened to anybody who was there. Whats the problem?