[Archived] Gordon Brown

[scotchrover]

After a months of umming and urring, the Labour party (well some of them) have had enough Gordon.

Leadership election

The woman whos called for this has now been sacked which has also a disgrace.

[broadsword]

How is that getting rid of Gordon Brown?

He'll be here for some time to come, mainly because the cabinet is full of nonentities.

You can't get shot of him now, he was unelected. If ytou replaced him, there would have to be an election, in which Labour would take a right thrashing.

[blue phil]

I'm not sure there would have to be an election , Bryan ...

[thenodrog]

I'm not sure there would have to be an election , Bryan ...

Is that because post Tony Blair Labour seemingly prefer to avoid them. Unelected PM, with a seat in a country which has it's own parliament and has gone through the devolution process, Brown is not the best example of democracy at work is he?

[RibbleValleyRover]

I'm not sure there would have to be an election , Bryan ...

There wouldn't have to be one, though the vast majority of the public will want one.

I can't see Brown going anywhere and changing a leader will not save Labour now as they are going to be annihilated whoever is the leader at the next election.

I see there has been another major cock up by Gordon and his cronies today:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7612852.stm

[colin]

Am I missing something here?

Members of Parliament are voted in by the electorate. Then a Government is formed from the MPs.

Only then is a Prime Minister elected by the Government & not by the electorate.

In practical terms, for as long as most of us can remember, it's been either the Conservative or Labour Parties which have chosen the Prime Minister.

How either party chooses to do this has never been of any concern to the genaral electorate.

[broadsword]

True Mr C, but in real terms, voters vote on a national basis, they vote for who they want to be PM.

Gordon Brown doesn't have such a mandate form teh electorate and has suffered for it. Mind you, it's his fault, he bottled an election. Election, I said.

[Billy Castell]

Gordon really should have had a snap election as soon as he got in the top job. Labour are going to lose the next one whoever is the leader. I think there may be something in these recent manouvers.

[MCMC1875]

Looks like Brown's days as PM are numbered. 20 labour MPs have requested a leadership ballot in writing according to the BBC.

[Bazzanotsogreat]

Am I missing something here?

Members of Parliament are voted in by the electorate. Then a Government is formed from the MPs.

Only then is a Prime Minister elected by the Government & not by the electorate.

In practical terms, for as long as most of us can remember, it's been either the Conservative or Labour Parties which have chosen the Prime Minister.

How either party chooses to do this has never been of any concern to the genaral electorate.

The fundamental point that you miss, is that Brown was voted in by a constituency in a nation that embraced devolution. Therefore, even though Labour party elected him through its political machine- there must be serious doubts over the legitimacy of his current tenure.

If Labour’s poor performance continues in Scotland it is highly feasible that the SNP will force an independency vote before the next general election. Meaning we may a Prime-minister in power that has been voted in by a completely or partly independent nation.

If this is where to happen, given Labour’s dependence on Scottish votes (and a somewhat skewed amount of MP’s fiddled by Labour in Scotland) it is my belief that the Labour party will fold and be replaced by something completely new.

[RibbleValleyRover]

Another day, another sacking

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7614424.stm

[scotchrover]

Iam glad to see my MP Janet Anderson has stood up.

[Bazzanotsogreat]

Latest Yougov poll puts Labour 19% points behind the Tories.

Funnily enough 81% of Labour voters have criticised there parties stance on immigration.

The only thing saving Labour from mass protests is the myth that they perpetuated that ‘ the current economic is nothing to do with failed policy & record national and personal debt’. They have the BBC to thank for that myth.

[thenodrog]

Funnily enough 81% of Labour voters have criticised there parties stance on immigration.

My conversations on that topic show a rather odd phenomenon. A number of people I have spoken to who have become disollusioed / fallen out with Labour and could never bring themselves to vote LibDem or Tory instead switch straight to BNP. I don't think logic or commonsense come into it, but what the heck our democracy (wrongly imo) is a one person one vote system.

[Flopsy]

but you want a one man one vote Theno.

You're the man you've the vote. Or so you would like anyroad

as rebellions go, its a pretty crap one so far.

[thenodrog]

but you want a one man one vote Theno.

No I don't. What made you say that? People need to earn it / qualify for it in my perfect system.

Anyway whats happened to the 'edit' facility? It's not showing on my previous post. Now Nicko's gone can't we go back to normal?

[Flopsy]

But your qualification to vote consists of being red haired and called gordon

[DingleBaiter]

I think we should do a 'job swap' like on the telly, put Ince as PM and the old grumpy chops as Rovers manager, just to show us things aren't really that bad after all.

[thenodrog]

I think we should do a 'job swap' like on the telly, put Ince as PM and the old grumpy chops as Rovers manager, just to show us things aren't really that bad after all.

How would we know if that ever happened?

But your qualification to vote consists of being red haired and called gordon

It's taken you some time but you have got there in the end Flopsy.

[Flopsy]

You're the man you've the vote. Or so you would like anyroad

Was what i said to one man one vote

[blue phil]

True Mr C, but in real terms, voters vote on a national basis, they vote for who they want to be PM.

Gordon Brown doesn't have such a mandate form teh electorate and has suffered for it. Mind you, it's his fault, he bottled an election. Election, I said.

It all goes to prove that our system of government is about as buggered up as your average third world country . How it's been so stable is partly down to the fact we are an island and partly down to our character as a race (for want of a better word.)

No directly elected PM ; no directly elected head of state come to that .....; non elected Lords allowed to be cabinet ministers (or even PM if they pushed it ) . We have the most centralised state in the civilised world ; real political accountability at local level is virtually non existent .

And now , as Bazza points out , we have a PM from a nation that is devolved and could be shortly a seperate state entirely . A PM that is elected by no more than 20,000 people or so ...and only then as an MP .

All this gives too much power to the party machines and too little to the people themselves . Any point at all voting Tory in Blackburn or Labour in the Ribble Valley ? None at all ! It's about time we reformed the system from top to bottom and caught with every other modern democracy . But how do you do that with all the vested interests involved ?

[Bazzanotsogreat]

It all goes to prove that our system of government is about as buggered up as your average third world country . How it's been so stable is partly down to the fact we are an island and partly down to our character as a race (for want of a better word.)

All this gives too much power to the party machines and too little to the people themselves . Any point at all voting Tory in Blackburn or Labour in the Ribble Valley ? None at all ! It's about time we reformed the system from top to bottom and caught with every other modern democracy . But how do you do that with all the vested interests involved ?

To True BP, Was briefly watching the clueless Clegg give his Cameronesque speech at the Lib dem conference. He did hit a point of resonance on the lack of democracy within the UK, underpinning that Labour were elected with large majority in the last election despite only receiving a quarter of the votes.

The demise of civil liberties & democracy is amongst new Labours biggest follies. What with the West Lothian question and the actions of the 'labour dominated' boundary commision- democarcy has all but being completley underminned in England in particular.

[thenodrog]

To True BP, Was briefly watching the clueless Clegg give his Cameronesque speech at the Lib dem conference.

I only saw a bit of it but he appeared completely insincere.

btw His interview gaff over pensions after was hilarious! The silvertop vote is prob about the single biggest voting group of people and he's effectively stated that he is completely oblivious to and clearly not bothered about their situation at all! I bet Jim's apoplectic! Clegg seems to be a bigger public school ponce than Cameron by far! 30 quid!

[Billy Castell]

As the third party, the Lib Dems need a 'loud' person who can put a clear point across and savage opponents. Of course, the nature of the Lib Dem party is such that their leaders are more likely to say 'I disagree with your opinion' than 'listen mate, you are talking ____. THIS is the truth.' They're all too quiet and nice, and they have no street fighters.

[thenodrog]

As the third party, the Lib Dems need a 'loud' person who can put a clear point across and savage opponents. Of course, the nature of the Lib Dem party is such that their leaders are more likely to say 'I disagree with your opinion' than 'listen mate, you are talking ____. THIS is the truth.' They're all too quiet and nice, and they have no street fighters.

Of course they dont have street fighters........ the last thing any of that lot of soppy and pompous prigs would want would be to actually win an election! Jeez they'd run a bloody mile just at the thought of it...