Boycott Or Not?

[aletheia]

1 minute ago, Tricky said:

Long term, fewer renewals may not force change — it’s just as likely to lead to further cost-cutting.

You worried about your job?

[aletheia]

Incidentally, is the squad better now than last year?

[Penwortham Blue]

8 minutes ago, Goozburger said:

Will a boycott be ongoing? It was only asked of the Watford game. A 25% reduction in attendance might be a first step, but that's the easiest. Is it going to gradually build to 50%, 75%, and then 100%? The answer is likely "no". My opinion is simply that there are bits and pieces of bad ownership, but unless they truly stop funding the club and paying bills, it's never going to have majority support from Rovers attendees, let alone the wider footballing world.

I'm not here as a "oh, here he is again with his blah blah mantra". It's my opinion. Nothing more. Nothing less. And I can assure those who think that I'm deluded and whatnot, that I ain't the only one who thinks the same.

It is pretty much already 50%, little over 6,000 home supporters today for a Saturday 3pm kick off.

[Guy N. Cognito]

There is a certain air of self-satisfaction that boycotting will not have the intended outcome. Shouldn't the protestors be applauded for at least trying something to effect a change? At the very least, one might be neutral about it. But it would appear that a contingent of fans are rejoicing at the thought of it not changing anything? There's something awfully sinister about that.

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Guy N. Cognito

[Tricky]

3 minutes ago, aletheia said:

You worried about your job?

Lol

[Tricky]

5 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Fewer renewals devastate the club. These fans are telling you they are not willing to attend whilst Venkys are here. You should stand with those fans and not the owners 
 

How you have concluded that empty seats create division is beyond me. I think it’s an AI post tbh - what the fuck does empty seats have to do with Reform? And how does it create division if people decide they can’t support Venkys any more and don’t want to part with their hard earned cash? 
I won’t be replying to you again. 

I mean the dynamic — when it turns into “you’re with us or against us,” it splits people who actually want the same thing.

We all want the same outcome, we just disagree on how to get there.

[aletheia]

 

Just now, Tricky said:

we just disagree on how to get there.

Did you outline how you indend to get there?

[Penwortham Blue]

1 minute ago, Tricky said:

I mean the dynamic — when it turns into “you’re with us or against us,” it splits people who actually want the same thing.

We all want the same outcome, we just disagree on how to get there.

Fair enough, what’s your plan on how we get there ?

[RevidgeBlue]

1 minute ago, Guy N. Cognito said:

There is a certain air of self-satisfaction that boycotting will not have the intended outcome. Shouldn't the protestors be applauded for at least trying something to effect a change? At the very least, one might be neutral about it. But it would appear that a contingent of fans are rejoicing at the thought of it not changing anything? There's something awfully sinister about that.

 

Quite so.

If the view is that boycotting/ protests etc will make no difference whatsoever, then it doesn't matter in the slightest whether they happen or not does it?

Not sure why it's any skin off anyone's nose.

[superniko]

1 hour ago, Tricky said:

Will you all be back at Ewood next week after the pointless exercise then?

Bloody hell. Already 12k+ boycotting over the last 15 years.

Sickening seeing comments like this given the clubs situation 

[Goozburger]

13 minutes ago, DE. said:

I suppose a lot of it comes down to whether you still find any enjoyment from supporting Rovers under Venky's. If you do, then I get the antagonism, but at the same time if the belief is that the boycott is pointless and won't change anything, then no need to be concerned about it. Just let people do what they want to do and keep on doing what you're doing. 

I do still enjoy supporting Rovers. As stated, DE, it's just my opinion. Nothing more. Nothing less. Everyone is free to do as they please, of course. 🙂

[superniko]

39 minutes ago, Tricky said:

What has a season ticket holder gained from not going? A pat on the back from a similarly minded fan, great.

Pointless, they already have your money.

Do you gain anything from going these days, bar depression and anger?

[ageoftherover]

I think the boycott has kicked more goals than we've seen from Rovers at Ewood in a long time.

A very low crowd. Don't believe the clubs propaganda. The fact theyve so blatantly had to fudge the publicly announced figure is in itself a win. It won't wash with anyone who was there, nor anyone even casually paying attention from the outside.

Publicly forced the club into an embarassing and somewhat tone deaf media statement

Boycott reported on major media outlets and mentioned on the broadcast.

Most importantly, clearly begun the process of gaining momentum within the fanbase. Don't underestimate how difficult it is to actually start something like this.

Yes it would have been nice to have another few k or so stay away, but its also important to be realistic. Rome wasnt built in a day and dislodging whatever money laundering, fund skimming exercise that passes for the ownership of a beloved football club is not going to happen off a single event either.

The most crucial aspect of winning a war (as distinct from a battle) is maintaining morale. Theyve always been very good at disrupting it. Chin up lads and ladettes. 

[aletheia]

13 minutes ago, aletheia said:

14 minutes ago, Tricky said:

we just disagree on how to get there.

Did you outline how you indend to get there?

I can't hear anything....

[Dreams of 1995]

1 hour ago, Goozburger said:

The boycott being "decent enough" for you is no good. No good. If it was to truly work, it had to be "decent enough" to those that will give it traction. The media. The owners (recognising it as a sign). Or whoever else it's supposed to bring attention to. You are already in support of it. So what good is it if it's just good enough for you? It's not swaying anybody's opinion to alter the course of history.

Who would be willing to take on the burden of our losses? Even with a bumped number of ST holders (let's say that would happen with new owners), you're still staring annual losses of several million or more a season just by standing still, as well as keeping onside with FFP rules and avoiding points deductions and fines. So who is going to take that on? I keep hearing "Venky's won't sell". I don't know who is close enough to them over in India to know that first-hand, but forget that for a moment... Where is the queue of buyers? I really doubt any business-minded person with "ambitious" intentions would think we're a profit-making project to have at.

If the owners weren't paying players and bills, I'd feel differently. Scoff. Call it a low bar. But the ingredients particular to Sheff Wed, for example, aren't there. At least they had absolute full validity and full support to put on a full boycott. Their owners were not keeping to their financial obligations. 15 years on, despite our downfall being of the Venky's own making, they are still, at the very least, standing up to their financial obligations. Nobody can deny that unless they were not paying the bills.

There is simply no validity or wider acceptance for a boycott in our case. It was never in a million years going to get external support because the elements are simply not their for wider sympathy, recognition, and so on. You can feel sorry for yourselves about it, but until you have an Oyston or a Chansiri TRULY witholding the dosh from people that are owed it, a boycott that results in a few thousand less than a normal attendance is going to do absolutely nothing.

There is some quite choice language within this post. It has to be said. 
 

“You can feel sorry for yourselves…”

”the elements are not there for wider sympathy” 

I think you are massively missing the point here. Thousands of your fellow fans have told you they cannot keep going if the Venkys own the club next year. They have decided that the way they can express that is a boycott. You agree with the end cause - that Venkys should relinquish control of this club

It is therefore unclear why you seem to think it should be others feeling sorry for themselves. You should be feeling everything they feel man. You have more in common with those fans than you do Venkys, Rudy, Pasha. You should be feeling sorry that so many thousands of your fellow fans decided, today, that enough was enough. So why should the boycotters feel sorry for themselves? They stuck to their principles today. And when it comes to the season ticket renewals, they may also stick to those principles again. That will result in a drop of revenue of 25%+ (I’ll wait for the police figures to figure this out). It won’t be irrelevant then

Buried within your posts has to be an acknowledgment of the reality we find ourselves in. Comparisons to Chansiri and Oystons are quite apt - we are not unlike any other non-parachute club in that we regularly make a loss. There’s nothing special about the Venkys financial commitments. However, we are unlike other clubs in that we do not provide the other necessities a club needs to survive - ambition, investment in facilities or its fans and importantly a regular and functioning operational business within the town. We are one accounting decision away from being a Chansiri. One day, they may say no to paying the losses, and then it will be too late to save us from administration. The boycotters are telling you this 

Edited 1 hour ago by Dreams of 1995

[speedies gonna get ya.]

I am bloody exhausted and glad this first step has been taken. We were never expecting an empty ground and considering the number of free tickets handed out it is a decent effort. 

I am more disappointed with the fans gloating and trying to call it a flop. They are the ones causing division in the fan base. Why are you reveling in the Raos continuing and attempting to ridicule those who have given up their own time and money to try and get our club back. This has really disappointed me this evening. Time to relax, recharge and go with the next phase. Just to say I have listened to the many suggestions on here and these may be part of the next action. We are going to need as much help as we can get.

[RevidgeBlue]

12 minutes ago, ageoftherover said:

I think the boycott has kicked more goals than we've seen from Rovers at Ewood in a long time.

A very low crowd. Don't believe the clubs propaganda. The fact theyve so blatantly had to fudge the publicly announced figure is in itself a win. It won't wash with anyone who was there, nor anyone even casually paying attention from the outside.

Publicly forced the club into an embarassing and somewhat tone deaf media statement

Boycott reported on major media outlets and mentioned on the broadcast.

Most importantly, clearly begun the process of gaining momentum within the fanbase. Don't underestimate how difficult it is to actually start something like this.

Yes it would have been nice to have another few k or so stay away, but its also important to be realistic. Rome wasnt built in a day and dislodging whatever money laundering, fund skimming exercise that passes for the ownership of a beloved football club is not going to happen off a single event either.

The most crucial aspect of winning a war (as distinct from a battle) is maintaining morale. Theyve always been very good at disrupting it. Chin up lads and ladettes. 

Great post, my sentiments entirely.

[Goozburger]

13 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

So to rephrase it your solution is to do nothing and just hope for the best?

It's those that are boycotting and who want new owners who are saying that they have a solution.

Let's put it in this way... And, for some context, my gripe with the Venky's is, let's say, operational chaos, rather than anything financial. And that's historical as well as current.

So, people want the Venky's gone. OK. Let's say that fan pressure somehow achieves that. For them to be gone, and for the Venky's to give up, it either means they send us into administration, or they sell us. So the other half of the solution is who then comes in to run Rovers That has to be thought about, surely.

In both cases, I really say it's pot luck. I don't know what sort of owner some are imagining coming in... An owner like the ones at Wrexham or Birmingham? While they certainly have a positive vibe about them, I still have to wonder how long before they themselves get into financial doodoo. And even those owners are about as good as you could hope for. It's far more likely we'd end up with an absolute weasel.

So, perhaps I am the negative bugger, Rev! I don't have an optimistic view of what could be next, largely driven by our dreadful revenue which, even with better season ticket sales, would still give us problems, I think.

That's basically all I'm posing, or all I'm suggesting. I have never claimed to have a solution, or that "I'm just waiting for administration", and that "I'm happy". Please stop with that crap, because that's what kills discussion.

As for today's issue, I'm really unconvinced that this is "step one". Has that just been decided today given that there were still a reasonable proportion of supporters there? Are they going to increase in number? For what reason? Do they know what new owner can come in to do things better? You may think there could be nobody worse than the Venky's, but I really think supporters like me, or anybody else, cannot bank their money on a better solution. That's not because "we must be happy with the Venky's", but rather that we're totally out of our depth to believe that we would be better off. We might not be, and that is a highly likely scenario that I wish some would just accept that people truly believe, rather than getting all petulant about it. That's what drives supporters apart.

Urgh. Anyway. That's enough for one night. Enjoy the Saturday evening, folks!

[RevidgeBlue]

2 minutes ago, speedies gonna get ya. said:

I am bloody exhausted and glad this first step has been taken. We were never expecting an empty ground and considering the number of free tickets handed out it is a decent effort. 

I am more disappointed with the fans gloating and trying to call it a flop. They are the ones causing division in the fan base. Why are you reveling in the Raos continuing and attempting to ridicule those who have given up their own time and money to try and get our club back. This has really disappointed me this evening. Time to relax, recharge and go with the next phase. Just to say I have listened to the many suggestions on here and these may be part of the next action. We are going to need as much help as we can get.

It was never really about numbers for me today. The longest journey begins with a single step as the saying goes.

Don't be discouraged and good luck going forward.

[aletheia]

1 minute ago, Goozburger said:

I don't have an optimistic view of what could be next,

Carry on and hope for the best then.

[aletheia]

2 minutes ago, Goozburger said:

because that's what kills discussion.

No, you are -suggesting that any action is pointless.

[Tricky]

12 minutes ago, aletheia said:

I can't hear anything....

I'll follow up when I've time, enjoy your evening 

[aletheia]

38 minutes ago, Tricky said:

41 minutes ago, aletheia said:

You worried about your job?

Lol

So you must be SWAG, Pasha, VI or RG 🙂 

Edit -forgot to add -or an agent. 😉 

Edited 1 hour ago by aletheia

[aletheia]

In all seriousness though.

Tricky and Goozeburger, the last time I seem to remember you on here was during the summer extolling the virtues of the transfer window and how exciting all the new incomings were and how good it was to get rid of the old guard. (How is that going –don’t tell me, we have to wait for the transition to play out at least until the end of the season.)

Now you turn up after a protest essentially suggesting that protesting will achieve little for a variety of reasons. It may be that you are correct. But unless you provide alternatives for ridding us of the Rao’s (which you appear to agree with) then surely your posts are not constructive.

[Guy N. Cognito]

15 minutes ago, Goozburger said:

So, people want the Venky's gone. OK. Let's say that fan pressure somehow achieves that. For them to be gone, and for the Venky's to give up, it either means they send us into administration, or they sell us. So the other half of the solution is who then comes in to run Rovers That has to be thought about, surely.

This is the same cowardly fatalism people used when Mowbray was manager. "Who else is going to manage us?" "Who else could do better than Mogga on our budget?" etc etc. Somehow we managed to find two managers back-to-back that had us within spitting distance of the playoffs until they were hamstrung by the owners. 

"It could be worse, so don’t rock the boat". 15 years of Venky's ownership has created learned helplessness within our fanbase.