OK...well we already accept that the very best will usually rise to the top. So you can put Ronnie Clayton down now Den and stop pointing at me with him! Yes, West Ham do have an excellent record for bringing in players. So why hasn't their Academy hindered them? If anything their most recent products (over the last six years or so) are the best for a long time. In fact I can think of about half a dozen England internationals they have brought through recently. So even accepting they are likely to be better than us because of reputation and location it doesn't explain why we are quite so poor in comparison over the last five years or so. The question is whether the Academy is useful at a) attracting players and helping to develop them. Kids generally want to go to an Academy and be involved for years and, if not, then why now. I'm not sure the setup is to blame by itself, there must be far more reasons. Again...why have Middlesbrough been so successful with their Academy output in recent years when we haven't? What can we do to try to emulate their achievements that we aren't doing? Nothing as complicated as this whole system is ever JUST down to luck. I still don't think it is valid as it isn't like that today. Different times...seems like a different world. Are young kids let out by themselves by parents these days to practice on some scrap of grass? How often do you see football being played on the street compared to even ten years ago? How many local pitches and waste ground have been lost to kids in Blackburn? Good thread this!

--> QUOTE(Ste B @ Dec 7 2006, 13:34 ) 465871[/snapback] Phil Taylor ... I was so tempted to edit your post there Paul I bet that Calzaghe can ride a bike, but I dare say Cooke can't box. Like Beth Tweddle, Cooke has no chance of winning, as nobody really gives a toss about their sports. Same would normally go for the Horse woman, but she's a bit more high profile being in the Royal Family and all that. Think her mum won it one year in the seventies as well. Now there is no way a horsewoman would have won it if she hadn't had HRH before her name.

Some may be "big clubs" but they are also our rivals and I'd also suggest that Middlesbrough and West Ham are not that much bigger than us. As for whether players would have come through without an Academy...well, yes, of course. The cream will always rise to the top. If that suggests that Academies are not needed at all however we don't know. It's a non sequitur. However I do think we are arguing between apples and oranges here. Would Rovers get any promising youngsters at all without an Academy? Surely all the others would snap them up? Mentioning Ronnie Clayton isn't that relevant simply because there weren't academies in those days. It was a different playing field, to use a rubbishy football cliche.

By looking at other academies I suggest. Middlesbrough is seeing a load of players coming through and they are being given time on the pitch. Newcastle have young players in their side. As do Man City, Everton, West Ham, Leeds. As for Man U, well they have had so many good players coming through that they would not be as successful as they are without them...players like Giggs, Scholes and the Nevilles have been integral to their success. Even teams notorious for buying in players such as Chelsea and Arsenal have brought quite a few through albeit most of Arsenal's are getting sold off - whether it be Ashley Cole, Jermaine Pennant or David Bentley but that just seems to be the English players. Ipswich have had quite a few in recent years. It seems that other academies are producing youngsters so the question seems to be that it is not necessarily academies per se that are the problem but just the Rovers Academy. Is there really enough money put into it? Is it underfunded in comparison to others meaning the club misses out on the best prospects? Or is the funding not the problem but how it is spent? Are the staff up to it or do they keep changing staff? Anyone know much about the Academy other than second-hand rumours? I think rover_groo seems to know quite a bit about the youth setup...any feedback from him?

Not really...what's the difference? Isn't an academy just a souped-up youth team?

Good detective work there Sherlock Jordan!

Which is why Jim has a picture of William Joyce on his signature.

What is the point of giving Mokoena a new contract if Hughes won't play 4-5-1? Even when we are away from home and have a striker who is plainly playing rubbish in Nonda. The guy hasn't actually scored a proper goal since away at Boro! The goal against Fulham was a backpass that somehow their useless new goaly messed up! MGP needs a rest...Peter or Gally cannot do worse and at least we might hope to see MGP getting back to form when a bit fitter and recovered from his rib. Why not try 4-5-1 for the next away game? At least one good thing has come of this...Hughes ain't getting constantly linked to United in the LET anymore!

Peter has hardly impressed much in his short spells on the pitch but it must be obvious to Hughes that Gamst needs a rest. Certainly by bringing him off at half time he appears to have acknowledged this. Gamst is in such a poor vein of form that Peter simply cannot do any worse. Therefore there is no reason not to give him a few games. Let Gamst have a bit of time to relax, poor lad looks shattered, he couldn't even get out the way of a pint of beer from five yards away!

No, but I was just about to

Unfortunately it seems that Rovers have been caught out by just how poorly Sports World have been at running it. This seems to be the suggestion as they appeared shocked by the sheer number of complaints. The Rovers merchandise is generally of low-quality and it is puzzling why there isn't some more quality gear available. It might not be in their interests to produce key rings or cuff links or whatever lines don't sell much but they don't seem to have basic items such as scarves or hats on occasion. If they actually had better Rovers merchandise it would bring more customers in who might be tempted to buy other things. The management seems non-existent at the store. The question is whether the amount of money gained by Rovers is enough to compensate for having fans put up with poor customer service and lack of quality merchandise.

Agree. Any kind of organisation that relies on the public needs to keep them informed. Even if it is only a flimsy handout it will do. Let those attending know and keep reminding them.

Pot.Kettle.Black. Not like you to ever take a thread off topic now is it? Declining attendances continue to affect many clubs in the Premiership, Has any club ever brought so pitiful an away following as Fulham did yesterday for a top-flight game at Ewood? The Middlesbrough-Man U game was down over 2,000 from last season. Villa can't seem to fill their ground despite having their best season for years. Wigan are now struggling with attendances as the Premiership is no longer a novelty. Could it be that football as a whole has to look into this, not just Rovers, for any real progress to be made?

I'd always say the 3-0 nightmare against Palace as we might have survived if we had gone up. Other teams without many resources such as Luton, Oldham, Wimbledon and Charlton (they didn't even have their own ground then) were promoted around that time yet managed to stay up. However another huge disappointment was the League Cup semi final in our first season back up - 1993, was it the Littlewoods Cup then? After looking like challenging for all three domestic trophies at one stage (although to be truthful Shearer's injury had put paid to any hope in the league) we ended up going out of two cups in a week! The damage had been done in the first leg for the League Cup however as our defence went AWOL and Paul Warhurst demolished us We did get our revenge on Wednesday at the same stage almost a decade later though so good things really do come to those who wait.

Um, yes I did know...and you still don't get my point. I'm guessing you mean 'joking' rather than him impersonating a Scotsman though which is what 'jocking' seems to suggest. Philip was joking in that thenodrog was referring to Tugay. By the joke however there was also the suggestion that Dunn had those qualities although we all knew thenodrog wasn't referring to DD . So...the joke doesn't invalidate any of my points regarding Dunn. Some do seem to think his return will solve all our problems. Admittedly I went off on a tangent but hey...it's a messageboard!

I think everyone but philip would have thought that. Dunn really is ridiculously overrated by some on here. If he really was as good as people said he'd be having links to Milan, Liverpool and Barcelona in the press surely? I quite like Dunn and think he should come back if cheap enough but some people really need to get a sense of perspective regarding him.

Fair enough, it just seems surprising to use that excuse instead of ten others as to why to join Barca instead of us. Was he actually quoted as saying that or was it just some crappy excuse from Souness?

I'm pretty sure he never said that. Do you have any evidence or a link? Why would a Swede who had spent years in Glasgow and was also looking to return to Sweden before the end of his career ever say it would be too cold in Lancashire?

Neill for Bridge??? In all our dreams maybe but it won't happen in the real world. Nor will we get anywhere near £2million for him. Not that we were actually offered that much in August apparently.

Really...and I wonder just who let them know about that "offer"??? That's not the Liverpool option so far as we know. If that had been the Liverpool option in August then he would no longer be here. There has been little to suggest that they would be likely to offer more for a player with six months on their contract than they had previously when the player had a full year remaining.

Corporation Park is fine where it is.

Nothing gets past you does it?

I'm very suspicious of all these rumours around Neill to be honest. Milan, Barcelona and now Chelsea...yet without anything at all to back it up. The Barcelona rumour was rubbish - it was cooked up because of comments by Johan Neeskens, the Australian assistant coach at the time and now assistant at Barcelona. The Milan rumour I think we can pretty much agree was a load of rubbish and I expect the Chelsea one is too. Have to say that whoever is representing Neill is doing a fine job of selling their client through the media but after all this it will be most likely he just ends up at Liverpool without much competition at all. We shall see anyway.

Or you could just look at it as VINJAY v. THE WORLD. Should be one hell of a scrap!

Except of course that your analysis of what was the speculation is rather speculative. Seeing as media reports suggested that the Liverpool offer was under £2 million then it may not have been such a tempting idea after all. Then again we can't know for sure what was offered but we do know that the offer came so late in the transfer window that we wouldn't have been able to bring anybody else in. Certainly that seems to have been the main concern for Hughes which is why they wanted Warnock in exchange. They kept plugging away with the contract offer but they must have known it was a long shot. In other words there were willing to let Neill go in the summer if they could have brought someone else in so it wasn't just a matter of money. Questions could be raised about why they hadn't anybody in mind for a quick deadline day swoop for some other full back but that is another matter.