tchocky - the main worry I would have about sending that letter is that they might be so dumb as to take it at face value. Maybe we should expect another 'exclusive' from Alan Nixon next week...and, for once, you really did see it here first!

Surely it could be arranged that any new member automatically receives a PM regarding this. Once that is put in place there would be no need for Admin/mods to do anymore. Like when you set up a hotmail account and get an automatic welcome/here are the rules message.

Not one single quote in the entire article. About as believable as a Jeffrey Archer defence in court.

Why on earth would 'The News of the World' be breaking this story? What did they do? Sack him this evening?

Seems that 'The Sun' can't seem to "let it go" either, hence their using of Wayne Rooney in a propaganda stunt and being unable to offer any kind of worthwhile apology without having a childish little pop at 'The Mirror'.

Elland Road put up for sale "Leeds chairman Gerald Krasner insists the club's fans have to accept "the financial realities" which have led the board to hold talks for the sale and lease of Elland Road." The Leeds fans know only too well about the 'financial realities' at the club. Can they really stave off bankruptcy? Their debts seem to be far worse than any other English club has had. Chelsea were in difficulty before Abramovich came but they were in the Champions League and their ground is on prime real estate (some of the most expensive land in the world around that area) and worth a fortune.

I'm not disagreeing with you Captain K, there is no buzz around Blackburn about the club - I just don't know how the club could get that kind of feeling around the place back. The only way I can think Rovers could be 'exciting' again is if they brought in big name players. The majority of people on here are die hard Rovers fans, it's the less committed that are needed to be drawn to Ewood. I've no idea how the club can do that...but that's what's needed to stop this decline.

Short of spending money that the club does not have on big-name and big-money signings I can't see how the club could create a 'buzz' themselves. Personally, I'd rather not have a 'buzz' than to jeapordise our future. If that means a few less thousand season ticket holders...so be it.

I do agree with that but a 'buzz' around a place can only last so long. Is there a 'buzz' around Old Trafford these days since they won the FA Cup? Not really...their fans are peeved with them not winning the title. Oh and when they did win the title in 2001, Roy Keane was too busy being angry at them failing to win the Champions League to be too busy celebrating. To keep a 'buzz' around a place you have to keep improving. What's the bext we could really hope for? Challenging for a Uefa Cup place? Maybe many Rovers fans are complacent and don't get excited just by us being in the Premiership. Fifteen years ago another season in the Premiership would have had a 'buzz' now...Rovers fans are used to it. Another top flight season...big deal. That isn't the fault of Blackburn. That's just human nature...

'The Sun' also appeals on behalf of Wayne Rooney, saying he doesn't deserve to be put in this situation. Then making it ten times worse for him by using him in a PR tactic to attempt to regain it's good name (if it ever had one) by resorting to patriotism (I never really agreed with the saying of patriotism being the last refuge of the scoundrel but it's certainly apt when applied to 'The Sun'). If they are truly sorry for previous actions then I'm sure using a teenager to bludgeon their critics with doesn't seem to be the best way to show it. In fact, if this was about showing any respect to those affected by the tragedy and the reporting of it after the event...surely they should be keeping a dignified silence rather than feverishly grasping any national teenage hero that comes along to restore their reputation? Good to see Jim representing the tabloid industry in as morally upstanding a way as ever. 'The Sun' attempts to build bridges...Jim uses the appearance on the board of someone intimately connceted with 'The Hillsbrough Justice Campaign' to insult Liverpool and its citizens. Whether people should 'move on' is a debatable point. That they should never forget what was printed is most certainly not.

I wasnt overly impressed with Garners effort either, took about an hour maximum from start to finish. While I know he likes a smoke (what a character eh?!) I don't see why he has to mention it every couple of pages. It wasn't bad just a bit too slim for my liking. Brian Clough's lateest autobiography 'Walking on Water' is a much more fulfilling read, even if the man does manage to talk a colossal load of crap at times in what he believes to be a return to common sense values. In reality most of the time he is just desperately attempting to be controversial. Not like any of the posters on here mind...

While not wanting to talk about whether or not those fans should 'move on' or not...(it's their choice and I don't know how they feel) does nobody else think that 'The Sun' equating themselves with Rooney (pictured in England shirt of course to make it seem that those who disagree with them are being unpatriotic) is nothing more than cynical emotional blackmail?

Oh go on then...that's ok with me. I just wanted to clarify who you meant by 'the people on here who love Souness' yet weren't concerned as in my opinion most Rovers fans are very apprehensive about the new season and nobody seems too sure which way it is going to go. Well...apart from the usual continual optimists/constant doom and gloom merchants whose opinion never ever changes in each direction. Didn't realise I'd come across as 'precious'.

Can you name some names as to who these 'Souness lovers' are who are not concerned about anything at the club? After last season just about everyone is unsure of the future and hoping for an improvement next season. There seems to be very few on here (of the regular contributors) who are wildly optimistic although are hoping Souness can improve the team's position as he has consistenly done in the past until last season. Or is it just that anyone who doesn't agree with your take on things and would rather have him out is a 'Souness lover'?

Err....hello? I'm here you know! Apart from my dozens of posts making that point then yes Scotty is more or less alone.... Be fair. A hell of a lot of the posters on here realise the problems Rovers face due to their location.

I'm not going to comment on the other points raised in this thread but I will say to Tris that that is one of the most moving and thought-provoking posts I have read on here for many a day.

interesting recommendation that Colin, I may well just give it a try. I've previously read a Simon Kuper book - 'Ajax, the Dutch, the War' which is a history of the occupied Netherlands in microcosm. If the one you recommend is as good as that was then it'll be an enjoyable read.

And my point still stands. Blackburn is a footballing town IMHO. Fair enough...we'll have to agree to disagree! If everyone agreed it'd be a very dull life!

You can think it's daft all you like but it really isn't. as that's where the core support is, Of course not all Rovers fans come from Blackburn, nobody said the do, just like any other club. Most do though. Just like any other club, including Manchester United; a majority of the fans at Old Trafford comes from the Manchester area. The areas around Blackburn are the heartlands where most of the support comes from. They're bound to be, if Rovers is the nearest club they are likely to support them. So the size of the local population has nothing to do with it? Where do you want Rovers to get most of their support from? Cornwall? Essex? We're stuck with the area whether we like it or not. I'm not suggesting there isn't plenty of Rovers fans who aren't from Blackburn (and on this site we see that Rovers have fans from all over the globe) but it is where the basis has to come from. Same as always. Not a local team for local people exactly...but it does need the local people. Maybe Man U could get big crowds without Mancs...we couldn't get them without Blackburners or those from Ossy or Accy. Actually we can't get big crowds with them so Lord only knows what we'd do without them. Simply...if the local population isn't that great then we can't expect massive crowds. Worse than that...if they don't renew there isn't that many others to take their place.

If any of us really knew exactly that we wouldn't be on here; we'd be chief executive of Rovers. If John Williams knew that then we probably wouldn't be having this sort of debate as he'd hopefully have sorted it.

And...I should imagine that if John Williams then said..."It isn't our fault! It's the customers fault for not buying the product anymore" (as some on here suggest) then he'd be laughed out the room and rightly so. That's how it would be seen if it was supposed to be a business.. Tris - You make some very ionteresting points about how the trust sees Rovers and I'd be interested to know exactly how they do view Rovers. We have been told snippets but we haven't heard anything directly from them. oh, to be a fly on the wall when the members of the Trust discussed Rovers...

When we were in div 2 in the eighties crowds throughout the country were way down at every place. It was also a bad time economically for the place. Every team (not just Rovers) since then has received a boost in attendances and especially those who can sell Premiership football. The Jack Walker era obviously gave us a boost but the two seasons we spent in div 1 recently should be looked at to see what kind of loyalty the club can command. Mentioning 'loyal and tremendous support', maybe it was going a bit far in building up my argument but I was reacting to your mention that Blackburn isn't a football town. The town has a population of about 105,000. Even if you add Darwen and other outlying areas it's only about 140k. Bolton and it's surrounding areas are, if I remember correctly, home to about twice the population yet they only last season managed to get higher attendances than us. That not by much as well.... Ok, I shouldn't really be suggesting that Blackburn fans are the best in the world etc etc etc, but look at the places that have had Premiership clubs for most of the last decade... Manchester, Liverpool, Birmingham, London, Blackburn, Newcastle, Leeds, Sheffield... See the odd one out? We do damn well that's all...so let's not be too harsh on Blackburn. Or Ossy, Accy, Darwen and Rishton for that matter... It's a football town.

I will when you name me another Premiership club which has seen it's crowds dwindle despite qualifying for Europe twice, finishing top ten twice and wopn a trophy in the last 3 years The crowds reached a peak and they aren't down by that much. Quite simply many people in the area cannot afford to keep renewing season after season. Now I don't want to get into this debate again but if you just look at the crowds Rovers compared to the population of the surrounding areas it obviously is a football town. There are ups and downs in various seasons but the truth remains that the support the club receives from the town of Blackburn and the nearby areas such as Darwen, Oswaldtwistle and Accrington (despite them having a team in the fifth division) is superb. The recent trends have been worrying but they can't mask the tremendous and loyal support. The club is doing all it can but there is only so many people they can target. Anybody who cares to compare the gates to the size of the population will see just how well we do. Just because the club puts on better offers does not mean more fans can appear miraculously. It's just the way it is although there really needs to be some way the club can manage to attract more support from the ethnic minority population. I don't know how this can be done but that is the largely untapped part of the population of the town that needs to be targetted if gates are to increase.

Can't really complain when on a free. Hopefully another decent addition to the squad and I don't really see anywhere that needs strengthening. Maybe a reserve right back? Unless Douglas or Emerton can fill in there... Does anyone know if it's being said or has been said whether this is likely to be the last signing of the summer?

I'm sorry but Blackburn is a football town which is why the crowds are so high despite it being a relatively small place for a top flight club. It's just that there is only so many fans to appeal to. Even the surrounding areas aren't exceptionally well populated. Added to that is also the case of it being that if you go any distance from Blackburn you will very quickly be into the traditional heartlands of neighbouring Lancashire clubs, unless you go north but then unless sheep count as fans there isn't many to convert up there. Preston, Burnley, Blackpool, Bolton, Bury, Rochdale, Oldham etc etc...all with their own traditions and times of glory or top flight football in the past (ok...well not Rochdale). Blackburn IS a football town, hence why last season they were still in the top few clubs in the country when it came to number of supporters we get in compared with the local population. Think Middlesbrough came top but then they've only just won their first trophy after a hundred odd years of trying. Quite simply - -- The highest average gate we can reasonably expect to achieve is about 25k. If you look at the cold, hard facts that is an excellent response from the area and, give or take, about the best in the country which is more impressive when you realise that East Lancs is not an affluent area. Other than the Ribble Valley, the income isn't wonderful and this does affect figures as well. Also there is the same 'buzz' around Ewood as most grounds whenever I have spoken to away fans visiting. It just seems different when you are a home fan. Away games seem different but they aren't much different really if you actually think about it. Other than maybe the much larger grounds... So what am I saying? Well...give Blackburn a break. It's not wonderful or amazing but it has fuelled the most successful town team in the world so saying it's not a football town ----- nah, you're having a laugh.