Some of the petty arguments and bitching on here are excellent to read. Keep it up guys!!! Den - If I were you I'd consider maybe having another vote if the numbers are so close, maybe of just the four of five nominees who have so far got (or will make it to) votes numbering in the double figures. If either Forrest or Sherwood get in (and I'm one of the few on here who doesn't mind either way!) it should be more than just by one or two votes. This is the closest vote yet, if either pulls a bit ahead by the time the vote is closed then they of course should go in. If it is really very close maybe we should have extra time. Best to make the decision now as to how many votes ahead the player would have to be. If there is only about two or three votes I think we should keep it open until there is a clear winner. This vote has created enough disagreement so let's make sure we end with a clear winner and not a result that could have been turned around if the vote was left open for another twenty minutes or so.

Nice preview from cn174 and although it really should be a 0-0 I can't really see it. I'll say an entertaining 3-2 win for Rovers but unfortunately a low, low crowd not helped by the presence of the Sky cameras.

We are second-guessing about Forrest but we do know one thing...the guy was good enough to captain England. Ok, it was only the once but it's still impressive. Came across an interesting list of all the England captains since the first international game against Scotland way back in 1872. Blackburn Rovers have had three England international captains. Crompton and Clayton are already in the team, Forrest is the other. One thing that is blatantly obvious by looking at the list is how Bob Crompton not only towered above other players in quality, in stats alone he also towers above all the other England captains before him and a heck of a long time after him. It has to be remembered how few England internationals there were in those days, today any Tom Dick or Chris Powell can pick up a few caps. Yet Crompton is still, a century on, eighth in the list of number of games captaining England. Also...his record for number of England appearances lasted for almost half a century until Billy Wright came along. Wright was a mainstay in the team for a long time...but not longer than Crompton and there were many more international games in the fifties than before. Whoops! Should probably have saved this for the 'greatest Rover' poll. Oh well, it's typed now and I can't be bothered doing it again. Links below. England Captains by Date Who has captained England the most times?

Does Emerton usually play that so far forward for Australia? It almost looks like he is a third striker rather than a winger. Has he been succesful in that position? Norwegian Rovers fans - Is MGP expected to play? Is there any news about the likely team?

It's been pretty obvious for over a year now that something at Rovers was just not right and Souness leaving alone is nowhere near enough for everything in the garden to be rosy. It's a good decision for Hughes to have a fresh management team on the football side of things. There's been something stagnant about the club ever since we finished sixth and from being a team on the up and going places there's been a whiff of decline...maybe inevitable as what goes up does come down but no easier to stomach because of that. A new start was called for...maybe Parkes included. Who ultimately knows what's going to be for the best?None of us really, we have to trust those who know more than us. Besides, Parkes has been paid very handsomely by the club for decades. The guy had a good run. Although he'll be missed life goes on and I, like all on here I'm sure, wish him all the best in the future. Met the guy once when he gave out medals at my school and he was a very nice, well-mannered and quietly spoken gentleman. The silly sod was half an hour late mind... All the best Tony and you have a place of honour in the history of Blackburn Rovers Football Club. That can never, and will never, be taken away from you. Regarding the story in the press...yes it's pretty poor that it was leaked but it's hardly the first time is it? The Cole story in the summer was learnt by fans from the Mirror rather than the club. Although I think that they come in for some unwarranted stick, the club must be careful not to alienate their fans too much. I've thought for a long time how much better their PR should be, especially as John Williams is such an eloquent and believable speaker. Hopefully in the future he can do more interviews as that is the 'human touch' the fans need from the club. From the man in charge who we all trust with the best interests of the club. Bye Tony thanks for everything, you will be fondly remembered that is a certainty. Now come on Sparky let's get up the league!

Don't be daft....you obviously cannot guarantee that at all though can you? Apart from anything else Sherwood did go on to play for his country and the reason he didn't play for England when at Rovers was because there were a number of better England midfielders, bugger all to do with being at an 'unglamorous' club. If it was so 'unglamorous' what were the likes of Le Saux, Ripley and Wilcox doing getting caps, not mention Shearer, Flowers and Batty. Besides, Sherwood wasn't even the best central midfielder at the club...Batty was. Sherwood has a huge advantage over other players in that he is remembered. If he had been good enough for the team he'd have walked it, just like Hendry did and Shearer will. Le Saux kept a Rovers legend in Bill Eckersley out the team. If Sherwood was so great we wouldn't even have the discussion. Having said all that I'd like to contradict myself by saying he was still a damn good player for the club and I certainly wouldn't mind him being him in, just that it doesn't make a 'mockery' of the vote just because some people do not want him in. The only thing making a 'mockery' of this vote is the whingeing from people because their own personal favourite didn't get in. Now I didn't vote Le Saux or Freidel (and I really do think Le Saux is a t1t) but so what? Why can't people just vote without others throwing their toys out the pram? Nothing wrong with tactical voting- people want their vote to count. It's their vote after all, heaven forbid they use it as they wish! As for Forrest...he is a representative of the great sides, the only Rovers player to win five FA Cup medals, captained the team twice when becoming champions of the land. We are still talking about him now. That says a lot. Not a mockery at all I'm afraid. It wasn't when Le Saux won either but some people are still unhappy about that even now!!! EDIT - I still would expect a late surge for Sherwood to make it in. Is it too much to ask for everyone to say 'fair enough' whoever makes it in? It isn't a personal greatest team after all, it's the votes of the entire messageboard, whatever their reasons for voting.

To be fair to Hughesy (and I seem to be the only one who can be bothered doing this anymore after seeing the thread set up in his honour on the 'Ask Admin' section! ) he is expressing how a lot of people his age think regarding clothing. They want to impress and look like they are independent enough to spend money on clothing (of course usually mummy and daddy has bought it) and, of course, impress the girls. There's nothing wrong with wanting to wear what is seen as being in fashion, I'm sure we all did it at some stage when we were younger, whatever style we chose. It's a bit unfair to expect young blokes to start wearing bargains or inexpensive clothes just because it is the sensible thing to do. Although I don't spend a fortune on clothes anymore there was a period when I did spend quite a large chunk of my money on 'designer' clothes. It wasn't just a statement it was intended to cement a place as part of the crowd. Who wants the pi.. taken out of them when that age for not looking like their mates? There's two ways to go from there though when you get a couple of years older...either you grow up and realise that to come across as smart and intelligent you can't just wear labels (except maybe at night in Blackburn town centre) or they can be wearing Stone Island clobber over their beer belly in their thirties when they're married with kids. Who they trying to impress then? Surely not their mates still? Not idea what Hughesy will be like then but I'm reaching my late twenties and tend to prefer not to pay so much on clothes (clever) as I'd rather save it for travel, socialising and drinking (not so clever). Ah well, who says wisdom has to come with age?...

Did you used to post under the pseudonym tom007 by any chance?

Not forgetting Crompton! The greatest Rover of them all was a regular for well over a decade and that only stopped because of World War I! There's no outfield player I can think of who was continuously a first-choice member of the England team for as long as Crompton, certainly not longer. The likes of Stanley Matthews flitted in and out but Crompton was first name on the teamsheet for years. Plumped for Forrest in the end as I think there should be a representative of the great cup-winning sides of the early days. It now looks like a battle between Sherwood and Forrest but as Latheron is taking some of the votes that may let Sherwood in. While I'd be happy enough to have Sherwood in we already have Le Saux and Hendry from the title team in (and Shearer will follow), it seems a bit unfair that our great cup-winning sides are not represented at all. We have Crompton for the championship sides and Le Saux, Hendry (and will be) Shearer for the Premiership-winning side so I've gone for Forrest for our other great period of dominance.

On the original midfielder thread I put forward a case for Sherwood but having thought about it some more I must admit that I've changed my mind and I now don't think he deserves a place in a 'Greatest Ever Rovers XI', sure he captained us to the title but he wasn't that great; unappreciated maybe but not one of our eleven greatest ever players. Colin has made an excellent case for Atkins and deserves credit for battling hard but let's be honest; Atkins just isn't good enough. Hard working, unselfish, loyal yes but great? No chance. So who does that leave? Forrest? Latheron? They are certainly the most succesful of those on offer and were viewed as the attacking driving forces in two of the great Rovers sides (or rather three, as Forrest was a major star of two different great Rovers line ups). Not too sure who to go with...the man whose five FA Cup winners medals have never been bettered by another player since or Latheron, a career cut short yet still one of double title glory. Tough choice but maybe we should have one representative of the cup winning glory days of the nineteenth century?

Sorry what I meant to say was that I couldn't see past Garner being voted in, your mention of his cult status is the reason why I think he'll be in the team. Besides, he is one of the greatest Rovers players, ok so he didn't play in the top flight but he was great for us. While we are thinking of 'great' as in quality we also have to think of how great he was for the club. Without Garner's stream of goals we'd have been relegated to the third division, certainly we would have been well down in 1986 before the last, vital must-win game against Grimsby even kicked off. So while we are looking for the greatest players we also have to look for those who gave the contribution to Rovers. Which is why Garner should be in with a shout and not cast aside merely because he was a second division striker for us. Not that I'm saying I'm going to vote for him, just that his service to the club demands that he deserves consideration. It'd be disrespectful to such a great servant to our club to do otherwise. The 'Greatest Ever Rover' should be a very interesting thread. To me though, a greatest ever player in the history of a club should have its interests running through their their veins and in their heart. I know who I think the greatest Rover we ever had was and it is scandalous that there is no statue to him. That's a conversation for another thread though soon to come though I hope...

Good to see Clayton striving to the 100 votes mark. Of the remaining positions I'd expect three of the four to more or less pick themselves. Can anyone see past Duff, Garner and Shearer getting in? That leaves the most debatable position as the second central midfielder. Even though I put forward a case for Sherwood I haven't decided who to vote for yet. Another question - is there also to be a 'Greatest Manager' poll?

You can shout all you want FLB, but if we go down this season I, for one, won't be blaming Hughes half as much as Souness. Well Scotty I do hope you will let the messageboard know when you have finally stopped blaming Souness for everything that has gone wrong since he joined, after he left and (hey, what the hell) before he joined as well. It could just about be the most anticipated post on this messageboard for 2007...'Exclusive! Scotty says Souness no longer to blame!.' Alternatively (and feel free to call me damn crazy for thinking this if you wish) the people at the club now could take responsibility for their actions and earn their pay packets without forever whining on about the people before them. It's a bit like a new government blaming the previous encumbants for their own mistakes and incompetence. It doesn't wash. If we are relegated this season there will be a hell of a lot of other people to blame as well as Souness. Although no doubt they'll try to palm off their own inadequecies onto him... ...at least, the rubber dinghy men will.

Actually it is ulitimately the responsibility of the men with the power: John Williams and the rest of the board. They backed Souness' judgement and got rid of Cole while keeping faith with a manager that it seemed they were seriously contemplating replacing anyway. If the Rovers board are looking to sue anyone over Cole going for free, they should look in the mirror. Even though I said on here at the time I didn't want Cole to leave I still think the board made the right decision to back the manager. You surely can't have a situation where the players choose the manager.

To be fair I think Emerton has already put in more good performances this season than in the entirity of last season. It all adds up to a player who is now looking settled and comfortable in this league. I've not been able to see a game at Ewood this year but have seen nearly all the games on TV so don't know if those at the grounds agree but I think Emo has been easily the most consistent player of ours and is the early front-runner for our player of the season. Some people last season refused to believe that he would ever settle down but he's proving them wrong. Agree about Bothroyd; he looks skilfull and a dangerous. Get him starting games please Sparky! We need a bit of youthful hunger and ambition up front. Stick Dickov on as a sub to harry the defenders when their legs are tiring.

As can be seen by the inclusion already of Crompton, England and Dougals in the side along with the cast-iron favourite Clayton in midfield the majority of people voting on here are not being "narrow minded" and are able to "think outside the square" (whatever that means ). For every one person saying they refuse to look past their own nose there are far more willing to debate, consider and arrive at opinions. Don't let a couple of posts out of the hundreds there have been on here get you down. Get voting Dave!

Yes I know you do 1864 and I certainly have never doubted where your loyalty is but I feel in this case some people are in danger of blaming Souness and Souness alone for things that were only partly his fault. If Souness had left a year or so ago when Spuds were after him he'd have been a genuine contender for 'Greatest Manager Ever'. Yes, it sounds daft now but still... It's not the point though. We certainly have at least an equal squad/team than the likes of Everton, Palace, Norwich, Southampton etc. It ain't on Souness' watch anymore, Hughes has now been here long enough to stand on his two feet and take the responsibility that he is being paid a hefty wage to take. Although he was dealt a bit of a crappy hand to start with we should still stay up. If not, Hughes, the board and the players should line up to beg our forgiveness before Souness does. The guy is yesterday's man, let's forget about him and play to our potential. As for safety...let's do this thing. Best way for us to do that is to.... FORGET GRAEME BLOODY SOUNESS!

Yes 1864 and that's been your view for a while. Since...ooooh...I dunno...the day Souness left? Of course before then you said the complete opposite on many things and I certainly remember you being one of those most glad to see the back of Cole in the summer. Maybe we were right to get rid of Cole, just because he can be arsed doing it for Fulham doesn't mean he would've for us if he'd stayed. I don't mean to single you out 1864 but the general slating of Souness from everyone since his departure is way over the top at times and gets so far into melodrama that someone should really write a play about the damn thing. Sure he outstayed his welcome and made many decisions that weren't the best but he did leave us in a better position than he found us, in the Premiership with a squad that can and should survive comfortably in this division if the all the backbiting and woe-is-me crap is eradicated from the squad. How many members of this board predicted we would be relegated? Not many...no need to change predictions with every blow of the wind. The reason we are bottom of the league is partly the fault of Souness and his record but it hasn't been helped by poor refereeing decisions (I hate bringing this up but the Southampton game was a disgrace), Tugay getting himself and sent off and, most importantly, grown players not playing to their ability. People are right when they say that no one man is bigger than the club. Just let's remember that cuts both ways. It's about time supporters stopped harping on about Souness (who is yesterday's man) and looked to the future. We're in a pickle but we can get out of it. Even someone like myself who often fears the worst can see that. There has been too much negativity, among the players, in the tactics and in the stands. It's time to forget Souness and cheer on Hughes. Either that or admit that some people are only happy when they have someone to moan about and just one person to blame.

Sensational was the term he used. Beat three men then shot from 25yds just over the bar, has since got booked. Ferguson and Danns anyone ? surely not ......... Sounds a hell of a lot better than Ferguson and Flitcroft or Ferguson and Tugay. At least sticking a young lad in the team you'll see effort and plenty of running. May not be the answer but at least he'd try to take some of the pressure off Ferguson. Tugay is largely a static player, knocking passes around whereas what Flitty offers the team is...well, i've no idea what he offers the team anymore. Certainly, he's not the player he was and games simply seem to pass him by. Some people keep saying it isn't the time to try unproven kids...but if the senior players are so damn useless then what is there to lose? Maybe we start losing 5-0 instead of 4-0, at least options are being tried. Besides, you never know...a bit of desire and enthusiasm in the team may actually do wonders. It does for other sides...

Can confirm that Tim Sherwood was capped three times for England while at Spurs. If we are looking at players who won the most for our club we are ignoring the one player who more with Rovers than any other...Jimmy Forrest. An England international, capped eleven times (games were so few in the 1880/90s that it made him a regular in the national side for six years!) he also went on to win not one, not two but five (count 'em!) FA Cup medals for Rovers. No other player has ever won more FA Cup medals than Forrest. Not only that, he captained us in the last two triumphant cup runs. There is absolutely no doubt that in those days that the FA Cup was far, far more important than the league. A cup win was everything and even until after the second world war that remained the case. The national champions were the FA Cup winners. Forrest was a driving force in a side that were the champions of England, scoting in two of the finals (and indeed Britain for the first three wins when Scottish, Irish and Welsh teams took part) and a great leader. Maybe most won't vote for him but we should spare a thought for a true Rovers legend, the most decorated player of the greatest team in the world. Alright it was bloody ages ago (and fans of other clubs wet themselves if we go on about the nineteenth century) but it's still something to be proud of. Regarding the forwards, Shearer is obviously a shoe-in and I'd expect Garner to be so as well. One other player we should maybe remember (I doubt he'll get much of a look-in even so) is the only Rovers player to ever score a hat-trick in an FA Cup final. In fact, he was the first player of any side to score a hat-trick on the grand occasion. Billy Towneley was another England international who is only not accorded the greatest of respect because he has been forgotten in the mists of time. Although he played on the right mainly he played so far forward that he should be recognised as a centre forward as his greatest moments were there. The greatest moment for him has to be the cup final hat-trick, unique for a Rovers player to achieve. That said...after scoring a hat trick in the 1890 final he then went on the next year to net the clinching third goal in the final against Notts County. Four goals in two cup finals. While I doubt he will challenge a recent legend like Garner, his heroics for our club deserve to be remembered. More information on out fourth and fifth cup wins (inspired by Forrest and Towneley) there is this link History - 1889-1891 (apologies for posting a link to my article! ).

Actually it won't be the fault of any one person - it never is. Sure Souness left us in a poor position but that was with just four games gone. If we do go down then Hughes will certainly have played a part. Quite simply it his job to keep us up with the players we have, if he isn't capable of that he shouldn't have taken the job. Souness is to blame for many things but not quite EVERYTHING. Remember that his team was beating Man Utd in injury time. With good management from Hughes, instilling a bit of discipline and confidence in the squad we should be safe. Especially as the board will almost certainly give him something to spend in January; they always have at times like this and if he truly was their number one choice then surely they should back him. Certainly Williams has said as much to the press, saying that Hughes is "a modernist", whatever that is supposed to mean. Hughes needs to be given time to work his magic...then he can be judged on results Souness left the club in a bit of a state but we can't go on blaming him forever. Not unless you want to sound like a Burnley fan going on about John Bond forever and a day. http://soccernet.espn.go.com/headlinenews?id=314455&cc=5739

This subject is all about different opinions, on this occasion mine is not the same as yours. No doubt some will disagree with both of us. Possibly just for the hell of it. However I (and others such as Brownie) have put forward Sherwood. Is there somebody you would like to put forward for 'Greatest Midfielder'? Bryan - you said "If it's greatest-ever players to represent Rovers, rather than players who had their greatest-ever moments with us, then surely you'd have to pick Ardiles?" I'd have thought it is the greatest Rovers players, not really what they did for other clubs (although that can come into a little bit). Otherwise we would feasibly be looking at players who only played once for us when 17 before going on to be great for other clubs.

Ronnie Clayton is such a Rovers legend that he really should be in. Leaving him out would be like leaving out Crompton, Douglas or Shearer. As for the second position I can't really look past Sherwood. One of only two players to lead Rovers to become champions of England. The other player is already in (Crompton) and I think it would be a little unfair to leave out Sherwood. Although Batty was an excellent player he had less influence due to injuries and being here a shorter amount of time. Personally I always thought Sherwood was underrated as he was not such a big name as England international Batty. Sherwood did win some England caps (three I believe) but all with Tottenham. 'Timothy' was something of an unsung hero when with Rovers and the fans never seemed to take to him in quite the same way as they did to Batty, Ripley or Shearer. It was when he was out of the team that we realised just how vital a player he was for us. There has been some complaining from older members of this board about more recent players ludicrously challenging true greats from the past. Although I agree to an extant it can also go the other way. Memories of poor games dim and all that is remembered are the wonderful moments. Sherwood should be remembered as a great player for us. Reliable, consistent, a classy passer and a leader. The likes of Jim and the old giffers can tug themselves silly about their boyhood heroes if they want (which is fine) and denigrate the more recent players (which isn't quite so nice) but we should remember that the greatest Rovers team in living memory did not ply their trade in the sixties. Instead, the won the title in 1995. One final thing - one of the greatest midfielders to play for Rovers should definitely not be included in this poll as he only made five games. It isn't that often you get a world cup winner in the blue and white halves (we only recently got our second) so maybe we should remember Osvaldo Ardiles. Not that he did anything for us...but great player nonetheless. Ossie Ardiles

Left winger? Scott Sellars was definitely first and foremost a left winger for Rovers unless my memory is playing tricks on me. As for Ferguson...I can't see why on earth he should be within a country mile of our fifteen greatest ever central midfielders. In fact our current manager did more for the club as a central midielder in one game at Cardiff in 2002 then Ferguson has so far done for Rovers. Then again, if George Donis made the shortlist for greatest ever right midfielder I suppose anything can happen. Interesting to see that in the right midfielder poll that John Connelly didn't receive a single vote. While he was well before my time I'd have thought that a player who was good enough to make the 1966 World Cup squad (albeit while with Man Utd) would at least get a couple of votes.

Exactly. While the squad that Souness has left us with is not exactly the 'Bee's Knee's' it is still capable of staying up. We can blame Souness all season if we wish but what's the point? The man is gone...history at Rovers. How many Premiership games did we lose by four goals under Souness? None, if I remember correctly. Yet when he leaves and we lose by four goals twice in a row it is his fault? Nope, sorry. There is a choice. The club, manager and the players either all stand together and fight their way out of this position or they all feel sorry for themselves and blame Souness. They can do that all the way to relegation if they wish... Hughes needs more time but as he is now the manager he has to lead the team to (immediately) improved performances and (more long-term) regularly picking up enough points to see us out of trouble. That's what he was brought in for, that's his job. It's not Souness' responsibility. Sod him, whatever he does. Just let's move on. As for Hughes...the team needs something new, something to jazz things up. If he finds it then we have the right man for the job. If not...a visit to Turf Moor next year it is. We can still be blaming it all on Souness then if we wish. Much good that it'll do us.