glen9mullan
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Posts posted by glen9mullan
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4 minutes ago, wilsdenrover said:
Do you believe him?
Had no reason to put it on table , so yes , he talked in detail on Sammy, as some sort of personal triumph of how we were operating better prior to a DOF in the transfer market .
I'm sure Mark Fish who was in the meeting will confirm this too
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43 minutes ago, neophox said:
Was it Broughton who signed Szmodics?
Waggott said in the meeting I had last month GB was totally against bringing is Sammy. He had been monitored for 12 months prior to GB and when all other avenues closed , GB caved in.
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12 minutes ago, RoversClitheroe said:
What about Pasha?
Never spoken to him, and tbh I prefer just to send my thoughts direct to the pay masters than piddle around with the "wun ton" brigade.
If I wanted to be played like a puppet id buy some strings
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3 minutes ago, RoversClitheroe said:
How did he sell Rovers to you?
Sounds like it's time for @RoversTrust to send out a statement around our discontent at Waggot.
We can't keep tiptoeing around the subject.
He didn't and was told so
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27 minutes ago, RoversClitheroe said:
I think a key question fans should be asking next time they meet with Waggot.
Is why should we support you and the board?
Why should we support Rovers, sell it to me Steve?
Also, has anyone ever been able to have a face 2 face with Pasha?
I did exactly this in our last meeting , and also asked him what he had achieved.
I also told him single handedly on four occasions since the end of last season he has ensured my renewal remains unrenewed , and not even a free ticket would get me through those turnstiles.
Under no certain terms was it pointed out to him that he lacks ambition ,that he now only does 50% of what was his original remit and should of took a pay cut.
I also stated that protest are not something of the past and could become very much of the near future, as those with the largest voice are voting with their feet by not attending.
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If Ayari had joined in August he be a decent punt, followed him for a couple of years and certainly has potential to be an excellent player as he progresses with age. As a complimentary signing during the summer he'd been decent to get off the bench and give him some experience.
Fast forward 4 months, team in free fall, lacking experience and captain loaned out to a team heading towards the Premiership, this has more Leo written all over it than Harvey Elliott in terms of improving our first 11.
Right signing, but wrong time if we have freed up wages for this after the screams for experience then this maybe see the tide turn on both JDT and GB who have not amassed enough brownie points to date.
This is a young group is what we've been fed for 6 or 7 seasons now.
Ultimately its the results that matters
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I'm flabbergasted at some of the things I'm reading, and head is spinning around.
Some questions
1. People trying to contact the owners, hoping that over a biscuit it may happen. Why has only one person actually contacted me for their numbers and introduction and not any of the people who seek this?
2. Why are people helping to paper over the cracks, when the best solution is the removal of the board and new owners?
3. When did we become so helpless and soft centered?
It's either ramp up the pressure for the removal , or continue down the spiral.
When is enough really enough?
We are going backwards here, from a club who we had on the ropes to now a club where to the outside world couldn't be any rosier
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Always a good time to remind those less informed.
Don't work with them, drive them out, the only way this club gets to safe shores
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4 minutes ago, Andy said:
That's interesting; I'm positive that GB has publicly stated that the club was heading in a completely different direction (eg an Ainsworth) until he caught JDT just as he was preparing to accept another European offer.
I'll try and dig something out, sure I've read this online - but the implication was that GB was solely responsible for bringing JDT to the club.
Overall though, depressing read (the meeting with SW). Just existing in the Championship benefits nobody.
Venky's lose money, no player or manager with any ambition would look at us and the fans have nothing to be optimistic about.
We really do need fans in key parts of the club; people who give a shit and want the best for the club.
Whatever the next stage of the club looks like, this has to be a priority.Just repeating what SWAG said,
I didn't think we learned an awful lot more tbh, than what we already knew and what was publicly said by Waggott and GB regarding the lack of expectations on JDT in September.
The India issue is also well reported.
Putting decent transfer kitty's in, has been lacking for a number of seasons.
Until the route cause leaves, the club can't truly push on.
Everyone from top to bottom are literally on survival mode, balancing the books.
That dare to dream , and rovers does not go together.
It's been depressing since the V's came and its going to take a hell of a lot of work for Rovers to get back to the position they were in 12 years ago.
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17 minutes ago, islander200 said:
Look at the budget he had?
Where are these director of football that get the majority of their signings right with the budget we have?
Ennis was on the back of a very good season and at the time he was signed our budget hadn't been cut.
Telalovic was quite clearly a development signing , if he had the money to bring in proven quality then that's what they would have gone for.And maybe with some time he will come good, Tronsted was being used as a stick to beat Broughton with earlier in the season and over the last couple of month he has probably been one of our most important players.
Hill and Moran so far have looked excellent loan signings.
Wahlstedt has looked iffy for me but at the same time we weren't the only club interested and he made his international debut the previous January so he must have been showing something.
Our business under him hasn't been perfect but I find it incredibly harsh to read he is out of his depth being said with such certainty with the circumstances and budget he works under.
Also if it was him who identified and chose JDT then he deserves big credit for that , he has also got nearly every member of the first team squad signed onto longer deals.
JDT was identified prior to GB, though he was involved interview process.
It would of been impossible to have his own target list that first window, I don't think anyone could. He relied on 12 months of scouting previously which had included January enquiries prior to his arrival on Hyam and Brittain.
Smodzics again was a long time in the working by the previous recruitment team.
January, he simply got it wrong.
This summer his list had to be ripped up at the 11th hour.
Hill , Tronstad and Moran have been decent additions.
The others very suspect, but have cost buttons.
Our plight sits with loons in Pune.
This quantity over quality is a direct result of being potless. I'm sure GB be as cheesed as us tbh
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1 hour ago, SuperBrfc said:
Something that hasn't been picked up on, from what I can see, is point 9 made by Glen in his update:
It was noted that Hyam, Smodzics etc were scouted prior to the new Management set up and have been a success in terms of purchase price, but also the previous recruitment team.
Unless I've got it wrong, the credit for signings of Hyam, Brittain and Szmodics can't exactly be put at GB's door. This is the work of the previous recruitment team, that he has seemingly made use of.
Broughton, imo, is in above his head, and the signings of Mola, Hirst, Telalovic and Ennis are more reflective of his 'talent' spotting ability.
I wil add, that GB took some convincing that Smodzics would be a decent capture and was very much against the idea. However given the leg work which had gone in, and the lack of a real target list (hadn't been here long enough to impact one) it was decided Hyam , Britain and Smodzics would be signed.
January's window was a shambles for different reasons,
Whilst this summers window was handicapped by the Venkys,
So it's very difficult to judge a proper window for Broughton , as for one reason or another it has handicapped the outcome
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I did point out how bad his previous club had been Coventry, how they had been to hell and back.
However when they cashed in on players this season they actually gave the manager a workable budget to actually have a go.
I questioned his "play it safe attitude" and if it was hindering progression . I pointed out Bournemouth had a real go for promotion in theJanuary window, and although not all were successes, they actually achieved the goal of promotion.
I said the lack of ambition is there for all to see, and at no point has he given me a reason to why I or anyone else should attend, apart from our blind loyalty to the badge
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1 hour ago, lraC said:
That's a brilliant post by Glen and I admire them for attending the meeting and for getting the answers they did.
I also had a meeting with Waggott, which I think was earlier the same day. Mine lasted for about an hour and I found him to be a bit like a politician, padding out answers and maybe avoiding a couple too.
I did not get anything like the amount of information that Glen and Mark did, but can point out a couple of contradictions he gave to them in his answers compared to mine.
He made out that the funding re received, keeps us afloat until February and suggested that the court had now set a precedent and therefore would be unlikely to not allow future funding. he did got to great lengths too, in suggesting how he had to provide a statement for all outstanding commitments and had to provide a precise breakdown of exactly what the funding was for.
I pressed very hard about fans being priced out of buying season tickets and suggested a HUGE marketing plan was put in place for the 150th anniversary, suggesting a 20% cut in season ticket prices and a big drive to get lapsed season ticket holders to return. He did not like the suggestion of the drop in prices.
I also put it to him, that I believe Venky's have something to hide and that is the reason they remain. He refuted that and would not be drawn into a debate about the initial takeover and my suggestion that the fall from the premier league was a managed catastrophe. He insisted that Venky's are proud people and remained in situ for that reason, more than anything else. I did suggest that now was the perfect tine for them to put the club up for sale and bow out gracefully, as they have the much publicised problems now with the illegal payment from 2010 to date story and on going problems and adverse publicity, that is clearly bringing. They have no way of getting back, what they have put in, so why not put the cub up for sale now and cut their losses. Who in their right mind would carry on under these circumstances?
One other thing to mention was that he almost seemed resigned to losing JDT and I am now even more convinced that there is a rift between them that cannot be repaired.
I would much rather SWAG was given his notice now than JDT.
We sort of set the scene, we hadn't come for a happy meal or balloon, and our questions were not screened.
We also pointed out, that the supporters have previously turned the heat up on directors and pushed them out, and would have no hesitation in doing it again.
We gave a brief history lesson, that the supporters have publicly taken our case to every authority and every media outlet across the world.
He acknowledged he was aware we have direct contact and appeared to be quite open
He mentioned you'd been in too, and it appears you may have given him a good grilling too, well done bud.
The point we kept reiterating is you need to give a reason for supporters to return , a reason to trust, and it starts by understanding why they have walked away.
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30 minutes ago, wilsdenrover said:
Thank you, did they divulge the exact date even if you’re not able to reveal it?
List of bills have been sent, and should be forthcoming pretty quickly
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34 minutes ago, philipl said:
Huge thanks to Glen and Mark for having the meeting with Steve Waggott and for putting such direct well thought through questions.
The way it reads is that Steve Waggott responded in kind with direct clear answers- is that the case or good editing after clearing waffle?
The requirement to account in detail for the moneys spent to the Indian Courts is not surprising but an indication that the Rao family were far from out of trouble when the meeting happened. The January transfer situation is a kick in the guts.
In fairness he answered in detail all points,
I've opted to put the points down brief, or I'd needed two pages
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Just now, wilsdenrover said:
Thank you.
Did they have a date for going to court?
This is going to be a long drawn put thing, only thing we can guarantee is money will be signed off until end of season, so not expecting restrictions to be lifted any time soon
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19 minutes ago, wilsdenrover said:
Regarding points 4 and 5.
If we sell a player, what’s to stop the Indian court saying that money should be used to pay the bills (and therefore refusing to sanction more funds being sent over)?
We asked this question and that's not a likely scenario. Ultimately its Venkys Money not the Indian goverments. Its only because they've moved money previously into over endeavours which has not been used as recorded/suggested.
There is no suggestion any money sent to Ewood has ever been spent on anything bar what it was intended for.
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As promised Mark and I met with the CEO and this is a brief run down of discussions.
1. Bridging loan - Taken out by Venkys against the training ground, using a long standing relationship with UK based businessman. The plan is this to be short term and they intend clearing it as soon as there is a relaxing of funds from India. They had to put up Parent company guarantees, but the liability of the loan remains with Venkys and won't appear as in the club accounts. The funds were made available to aid cash flow and ensure priority bills were paid.
2. Cash flow - although challenging the club has paid all priority bills, or renegotiated terms during the period up until and including the cash injection earlier this month, this includes all bonuses. No wages or bonuses have been deferred by anyone at the club.
3. Cash injection - the club are relieved with the 11 million or so which had been sanctioned by the Indian courts. Its a less than ideal situation as substantiation must be provided with each application and only bills, operating costs will be sanctioned. The money cannot be diverted to transfer funds and will be auditable on future applications. This money was to see the club until December 2023.
4. What's the plan for funds for the rest of the season? The club has once again put together a list of bills which will need to be paid, this will again go to the courts for authority to pay, the club are confident this will also be sanctioned.
5. Does that mean no transfer funds? If there is not a relaxation in India, then funds will need to be generated via player trading
6. Venkys sponsorship - Club taken 3 years payment of the 5 year deal in advance to cover cash flow.
7. DOF/CEO model, who decided this? This was Venkys Idea after seeing other clubs use this approach.
8. Have you taken paycut to fund a second person doing something you previously did on your own? No
9. We have had a good record previous to a DOF of buying players with a good sell on value, is it fair to say that most of our playing assets are now from the academy, who have a genuine decent value? CEO acknowledged that our assets are from within rather than those purchased. It was noted that Hyam, Smodzics etc were scouted prior to the new Management set up and have been a success in terms of purchase price, but also the previous recruitment team.
10. Are you on a rolling contract/fixed contract? Notice period from either side required to terminate.
11. Season tickets - Club recommended a much lower price to India, in particular on the early bird, however this was not acceptable and they set a higher opening early bird offer. It was acknowledged that the early bird offer didn't help low income families with the short duration and the club needs to learn from this. It was also acknowledged that the price was a stumbling block and something they will be looking at. However a large drop in price would have much wider implications if the club needed to later increase these year upon year, with the rises being much steeper for the club to remain viable in terms of minimum revenue required to operate within FFP.
12. Shirt launch - How do we launch a shirt and sell out within 2 hours? The club ordered 15000 shirts, and he feels the launch was great success, obviously we need to sell all stock as 15000 was big commitment, however the limited opening batch was out of the clubs control with all shirts ordered in good time. The lack of shirts was not related to the clubs funding issues.
13. Closing the Blackburn End - the club received a number of complaints and hindsight is a wonderful thing. With cash flow a major issue at this time, the club attempted to try and limit match day costs. As CEO, he needed to look through a wider lense if funds were not forthcoming. Being responsible for the lights being able to be turned on was the priority during a challenging period and the decision was not taken lightly.
14. Shaw will be remembered for a fax machine, and you for a coach you didn't buy but said you did? After a debate it was agreed the coach was a lease and we asked him to admit saying otherwise has become a standing joke with JDT. He stated they wanted to put some positive PR out as the coach is state of the art. We told him, that the demographic he is preaching to, some can't afford a holiday or the basics and it was a poor effort to appease the fans.
15. We asked what he feels is his achievements to date as CEO? He said stabilising the Club during the bad press. We challenged had he stabled the club or have those more vocal given him time and patience to rebuild? We pointed out crowd's have continued to dwindle, and season ticket holder retention should be one of his main priorities l. It's no good selling 800 new season ticket holders, if you are losing a 1000 existing ones. We pointed out that they have not left their offices, gone out to the masses in and around the area, surrounding areas , put pop-ups up or to date given supporters a reason to return.
16. Is there any redundancies planned as part of the cut-backs? Not at this time, some have left employment for other reasons and these won't be replaced.
17. Supporter consultation meetings, why have they ceased , we do not believe meeting the FF in isolation instead of an open forum ticks the leagues mandate following consultation with the league ? He disputed this, but was happy to be corrected if that's the case. They stopped because of covid, but would be open to them restarting instead of multiple meetings, if there is genuine interest from supporters to attend a more open forum.
18. New Indian Based Commercial Director - He is cc'd on emails as a director however to date, has not got involved with Ewood and is not on the pay role. The other Indian based directors are also not paid by Rovers, though Gupta does attend meetings and in particular surrounding finance. He plays a more active role, than is forseen with this new appointment which is more of a tick box exercise.
19. JDT contract - it is a 3 year deal with no talks of a new contract planned at this stage, he is ambitious. We asked why JDT thinks he was sold a pup? He reiterated that its the same job as its always been with no pressure on league position. Its always been about developing and trading regardless of financial restrictions this summer.
20. Did we adopt quantity over quality this summer ? It was acknowledged that not all signings have worked out yet, either this season or last. We've had to take more chances , but some players take longer than others to settle.
21. Have the EFL or football league asked questions or taken closer look at Rovers since the investigations India? He stated he talks weekly with both parties and at no point had their been any discussions or contact either formally or informally. The club are completely compliant.
22. Given the fans found out the bad news from the press, as it appears he does, is he aware of any more bombshells from India, that have yet to hit print? He said he was not aware of anything and Mr Desai has repeatedly reiterated the owners commitment to providing funds.
23. When does he think we wil be clear, so funds can be provided normally? He does not know beyond the short term facility in place. He is confident that although substantiation is required to get funds signed off, that there should be no blockers to prevent these funds being transferred. He again reiterated the owners long term commitment.
24. Have they considered partnering with a credit union or endorsing one to offer supporters a facility to save for season tickets, given not all appear yo even pass the strict finance criteria by the clubs credit provider? He was interested on how this could work and would be open to looking at various options to aid affordability over a period of time, providing the club were not responsible/liable for the savings.
25. Large agent fees - We asked why the agent fees were so big? He stated some are historical and on long payment terms, so this is not just recent spend, it's cumulative of a number of seasons.
26. Loan from league during covid - Its been a bit of a noose but the final repayment will be made in January.
Above is just brief and I will happily have a chat off line with anyone who wants me to elaborate
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3 hours ago, pedrob2014 said:
Hi Glen are you in a position to give us any details of your meeting
Sorry, just not had chance yet (some personal things controlling much of daily life). Will try and get an update on before end of week
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Mark and I did finally did have our catch up with Waggott last night for a couple of hours. (I believe he has also held meetings this week with the FF, the trust and some other supporters).
We will gather our thoughts, and report on those discussions at some point over the next couple of days
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Further turmoil , wonder what fabricated statement the club will put out now, now that VH London are under investigation
https://www.easterneye.biz/india-to-seize-hatchery-firms-assets-over-forex-rule-violation/
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The sinister side of me, thinks this smells of trying to get a income boost now, rather than a drip feed, between now and Christmas, to aid cash flow.
Makes little sense, to offset walk ons which brings more income between now and Xmas for a club starving and requiring cut backs unless they need a cash boost now to pay pending bills.
Obviously I can't substantiate this, but will certainly be posing this question
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3 minutes ago, wilsdenrover said:
2003-2008 vs 2017-2022:
I find these numbers fascinating, when considering our board back then, to the board now, especially given the walkers Trust investment was not that great back then
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v Cambridge Utd (h) - 06/01/24 FA Cup R3
in Blackburn Rovers Fans Messageboard
Posted
The point waggott made throughout a 2 hour meeting