That's outrageous!!!

As I said it's a second half option if we are struggling to break teams down if they sit deep like Cardiff. Not advocating starting with it. Dolan is one of the first names on the teamsheet for me.

Ah okay. Well that buggers that idea. Don't really know what we can do then. I guess just plug away with the 433. On the positive side looking at the fixtures between now and that November break probably only Boro and maybe Coventry will be inclined to park the bus and hit it direct. So maybe it won't be such a big problem.

Two weeks till the next game, so a bit of time to settle and refresh after a very good start to the season. If we can get a good left back in that would be just about acceptable. However looking at the team you would have to say that the area we look weakest is finishing. That sounds a daft thing to say considering the ridiculous number of goals we have scored in the first four games - but Bournemouth, Wycombe and Derby all played open which really suited us. But when we got to Cardiff who sat back we really struggled as we have in the last God knows how long. This season we have now been marked as a very dangerous team, and as a result that most sides will sit deeper against us. Who do we have who can reliably finish in that sort of a game? Just Armstrong and Dack, both of them small lads who will look for a bit of space in the box which is very hard to come by if there are 10 players behind the ball. What you really want is someone to mix it up who can get his head or foot on the crosses that come in and get a shot on target or a knock down for a team mate. For the money we spent Brereton or Gallagher should offer that but sadly they don't. I can see it turning into a major problem as the season wears on. I suppose something we could look at in the next Cardiff style situation is to flip the 433 into a 4312 in the second half and try and crowd the box with bodies. Need more quality from the full backs in terms of crossing though. -------------------Kaminski JRC-----Lenihan-----Williams-----New LB? ------Holtby-----Johnson-----Rothwell ---------------------Dack -----------Gallagher----Armstrong Basically get all of Gallagher, Dack, and Armstrong into the box while JRC and the (hopefully) new left back send decent crosses in as the other team sits. A quality proper centreforward would make a lot of difference though. Instead we are in the position where we are hoping Gallagher can offer a target role against all the evidence, rather than being able to rely on it. That said we should stick with our 433 with Dolan to start etc but just have the above in the back pocket if we are struggling. I think Dack could be back after the international break? Also I note Connor McBride seems to be finishing very well for the under 23s. I don't really see the harm in giving him a chance in the first team soonish. Repeatedly the under 23s players have played very well when promoted to the first team. There's a decent chance he would be much the same. If he can offer some finishing quality that we can bring on in the last 30 mins of games it would be a huge bonus.

Yes that's a very fair point. Of you asked me at the start of the season who our best 4 players were I would have said Travis, Dack, Lenihan and Armstrong. We were missimh three of them and looked the better team by a way. Target this season has to be top six minimum.

On the positive side we dealt with Cardiff's direct style really well. They hardly threatened us an early shot from Hoilett aside. We also played some nice stuff. On the negative side we struggled as they sat back. Even when we had six attacking players on and they were down to 10 men we rarely found a killer pass, and when we did we couldn't finish. Not having any real finishing quality outside of Armstrong is a problem. I wonder if Connor McBride may get a Dolan like stab at the first team at some point. Overall decent performance and result against a side that could have been tricky for us.

I wonder if we are gaming QPR a bit on Ryan Manning, getting them to lower the price?

If he was fit enough hed be worth it but I would let him go and bring a young lad through. Reckon he will miraculously string together 10 good games at the end of the season though, just in time to change everyone's mind.

This is beyond a f***** joke. He needs to be available to us for a few games before turning out for NI.

Yeah - I can easily see us losing this one to be honest. They are well equipped for our weaknesses. I expect them to sit back and ping it straight over our midfield onto Moore's bonce. Huge game for the back four and keeper. Lenihan needs to clean Moore out early and then physically dominated him. And Dolan and Brereton need to pin their wide players back on the defensive. If I was Harris I would be tempted to go 442 and put someone like Hoilett up front to get the knock-downs. Not how they usually play though.

Has anyone got any idea how many ifollow passes are being sold for these games and how the money is divided up? I would guess probably around 5-6k Rovers passes sold including the season ticket ones as people who share a house will probably buy one to share. But then it's hard to predict because so many factors involved. It's cheap so maybe numbers are higher than that? Or maybe people can't be bothered watching from home so theyre not buying?

I guess my point is to stick with and trust the system, as opposed to get spooked if we get a few poor results.

I am absolutely frothing at the mouth for this game. To be honest I won't be that upset if we lose as long as we keep playing the same ultra aggressive way.

Nah people like kicking Mowbray and saying "he has his favourites" ad nauseum. But in actuality when he drops a player and the replacement does better they keep their place. That's consistently happened. Bennet - dropped, Evans - dropped, Walton - not renewed, Smallwood - dropped and sold, Mulgrew - dropped, Williams - dropped for Tosin. Dolan will keep his place. Gallagher will sit on the bench.

He could have been I think, if he'd sorted himself out. Obviously just a personal opinion, but he had exceptional pace, could score from range, link and create. He was unplayable really. Some of the goals he scored were unbelievable solo efforts. Henry kicked on from a pretty modest start at Monaco into a goal machine at Arsenal really epitomising everything Wenger was trying to do. Bellamy on the other hand spent that part of his career falling out with Souness and Shearer, getting shunted out to Celtic, had one excellent season with us, then moved to Liverpool and hit Riise with a golf club and continued he merry go round of clubs. If he'd had his head screwed on he could have had a much better career.

Agree with that, Bellamy was an outrageously good player. It's mad they actually did play with each other for years at Newcastle but were hot and cold, mainly because Bellamy was such a bell end. On paper Bellamy/Shearer should have been one of the great strike duos. If Bellamy had his head screwed on he could have been as good as Thierry Henry imo, very similar style in so many ways and just as talented. But Henry was a grafter, while Bellamy was a deeply troubled bloke. Still did alright mind.

I've been impressed with Holtby and Rothwell both putting a foot in too. Much more than Downing did. We haven't really missed Travis in that department which I am amazed to say.

I don't think I have looked forward to a game so much in years. This should be an absolute cracker. Same team with Nyambe in for injured JRC. Cardiff are a relatively direct team who will play it long into Moore and will use Hoilett's and Ojo's pace down the flanks. Basically they are a very good test to the weaknesses of our system. If we can pull another top performance out I will really start believing something special is on the cards. But I do think it's going to be much much busier for our back four. Expecting something like a 2-2 draw.

An absolutely exceptional finisher. That said I really didn't like his all-round game. Ball didn't stick to him, couldn't run in behind, didn't link up, lost all his physical battles. There's a reason he has never played at a higher level and struggled to get into midtable Wednesday and Middlesbrough teams despite his incredible goal scoring record.

It's true though right? Big, can't head, likes playing on the wing, falls over his feet, can't shoot but batters his way through. Once you see it you can't unsee it.

So here's a a thought. Most, including me, was worried about how we lost Tosins quality passing from the back. It looks to me like we've replaced it with the goal keeper. Inspired. Played quite a few really smart Tosin-esque midfield splitting balls against Derby. I think he's going to be a fantastic player for us.

That's mad imo - Lenihans the captain and the only defender whose been reasonably consistently good over the long run, and can dominate in the air and recover on the turn. Williams has played very well recently but no one we've played have really gone direct and hurt him where he always suffers - balls in the air or in behind. My expectation is when that happens he will have some really tough games and everyone on here will have the pitchforks out for him again. I fully expect Lenihan and Ayala to become the eventual first choice with Williams frequently filling in due to injury or suspension.

Just watched the whole game back. What a tremendous performance. We really should have scored a few more. When I think back to the games in June post lockdown when we were playing 433 but getting beat by Millwall and Wigan etc and compare to how we are playing now it's night and day. Everyone feels in the right role (no Bennett at left back, or Holtby as false nine), losing Graham and Downing allows us to press properly, and obviously Dolan is a vast upgrade compared to Gallagher or Samuel on right wing. Kaminski - is exceptional with his feet. Like a third defender, classic sweeper keeper. He retains the ball so well compared to any keeper we've had in the Championship. Looks like he could be better than Raya to me but let's see how it goes. Williams - much maligned but won everything and used the ball so well when he had it. Looks a top defender. Ayala will struggle to get in. Lenihan, JRC, Nyambe, Bell - all had decent games with very little to do. Lenihan had one exceptional block at the start of the game. Rothwell - phenomenal all-round game. Looked Premier League class. Huge engine, put his foot in, pressed relentlessly and also used the ball excellently. A complete peformance. Left side of a 433 is the perfect role for him. Could be a big season for him. Holtby - neat, keeps things moving, always provides an option. Has defence splitting passes in him, superb one for the fourth goal. Looks much better in a deeper role than in the front three. Johnson - physically dominant. Used the ball well under pressure (which has always been his weak point, but he was very composed). Two well taken goals, first was a thunderbolt. Because everybody is working their nuts off to close down his lack of mobility is not exposed. Dolan - clearly destined for the top. As obvious a first rate player as when Duff and Phil Jones first turned out. It's incredible Preston let him go. Are they on drugs? Armstrong - finishing was poor but still very dangerous. Got a good goal. Should really have got a hat trick. Brereton - I have really thought he is useless since he's been at the club. In fact I think I called him "the worst player I have ever seen for Rovers". However I am beginning to see that I was wrong about that. In the quite unusual niche of his game he is becoming very effective. He beat his full back in probably 70% of duels yesterday. Physically dominated him, outpaced him. Yes his shooting was generally poor but he did create Dolans goal off the post. Crucially he held up and layed off the ball well. Gave it away very infrequently, and won a ridiculous amount of free kicks. If he can find some shooting boots he could come good. You know what I realised - he is basically Emile Heskey.... Derby were woeful, and despite being thrashed by us in the first 15 minutes seemed to stick with the same tippy tally football where we just hounded them. Daft. I love the way our front three and midfield three swap around positions and the full backs play as wingers while the GK forms a back three with the CBs. It's total football nicked straight from Liverpool and it's actually working for us. Absolute madness. Really really looking forward to Cardiff. Same team, Nyambe for JRC who will be injured I suspect. Let's enjoy this season, it's going to be a lot of fun. Reckon when we play a decent team who like to be direct things will get tougher, but lets trust this system and players and ride it out even if we get a few poor results along the way! Oh - and huge kudos to Tony for implementing such a radical plan. And all this with Dack, Travis, Gallagher, Evans out. Wow.

Yeah that's another way to skin the cat. More risky than going long though as it leaves big gaps in behind on the flanks for Dolan, Armstrong et al to exploit on the counter.

Yeah exactly. You hardly need Makelele, just someone who can sit on the playmaker and make it difficult for him. A Smallwood type can do it. Similarly you hardly need Crouch and Defoe up front either if your playing long. Just someone who can get their head on it and someone who can run in behind. I'm not saying if other teams start playing long we will always lose or anything like that, just we've played a couple of naive teams in Wycombe and Derby who were suckers for our system. Other clubs will now be taking note and adjusting their plans to exploit our weaknesses. I doubt we will have such an easy ride at Cardiff. Hopefully I'm wrong.