Problem with 433 is the front three get isolated With 4231 at least you have the 10 role to link up. I guess we could develop an approach where we use the same personnel but can switch between the two systems during the game as required. Three at the back however is baffling. I get why we did it at WC2018 and it worked pretty well, but the squads changed a lot and we seemed to move away from it in 2019.

It's disappointing to see games like this when we do actually have a squad at the moment with a lot of excellent attacking options. On reflection I don't really know what is wrong with sticking with 4231? It suits our players and links the team together well back to front. ------------------------Pickford A-A-----------Gomez------Maguire------Chilwell --------------Henserson------Winks -----Sancho----------Foden--------Sterling ---------------------------Kane Great team that, probably only France have a better set of attacking players. Recognise injuries / players behaving like dickheads made a few drop out but you could still just swap around a few names but keep the shape and it would work very well. I like Southgate but I just didn't really understand what he was trying to do yesterday.

Can pass it well but way too slow on the turn and across the turf. Holtby will be playing this role I think, and has looked good doing it.

I only caught the second half but it really looked like 433 to me. I wasn't really watching that carefully though, so happy to be corrected. That several people seem to be if differing opinions about the formation after the game has finished tells its own story too!

He's done pretty well so far. As well as any England manager in the last 30 years. I can't see the point in endlessly changing them. May as well see how he does next tournament.

Formation didn't really work today. It's a 433 similar system to the one rovers have played recently which is infinitely improved if you get a playmaker in middle of the central mid 3. Don't think it really worked with Dier, Rice and Phillips. Would have been a lot better if Winks was available I think. Whenever we've played well recently he is key as he knits everything together. We were very disjointed without him and Henderson.

This season is unpredictable as we are going to have so many young players in key roles. Based on what we've seen I think they may be a slight improvement on last year's squad in terms of attacking but slightly weaker in terms of defence. Wheels could come off defensively and we end up in a relegation scrap. Or we could acclimatise well and make mid table again. If we could sign a quality left back and centre back I would be much more optimistic.

I don't think it's nailed on but we would stand a much better chance. I could just about stomach not signing a CB as we do have promising young players who can play there (Magloire, Wharton, Carter, Nyambe), as well as two pros one of whom is pretty good at this level (Lenihan). However any injuries to Lenihan would be catastrophic hence why we need more senior players. Left back however is a clearly huge problem. Bell can have the odd good game, but is defensively very suspect, plus he gets injured frequently. If that happens then what? JRC at left back? Williams there? Rothwell (!!!) there. Scratching around could Davenport do a job? But these are questions you shouldn't have to ask.

To be honest the most impactful loss we had imo was Cunningham. Armstrong made up for Dack, and our midfield did okay without Evans. But our defence was shocking.

It's crazy that £20m for Callum Wilson is a steal. But you're right.

If it was up to me I would go Kaminski Nyambe. Lenihan. Wharton. Bell. Travis. Holtby. Evans. JRC. Armstrong. Dolan. I think Mowbray will probably pick something similar but with Johnson ahead of Evans, and Brereton ahead of Dolan.

I'd keep giving Evans game time too. Rarely fit but when he is he has looked good the last couple of years.

Hey I don't mind signing more top quality players if we can, but I don't think we will. Just saying if we can't let's go for it with the youngsters.

A general point - our academy players have all looked the part when they play with a few rough edges. We need to double down on them. I'd take finishing 10th again with them getting a season under their belt over finishing 8th with a bunch of journeymen and loans. If we bring in an experienced CB and LB and just let everyone else have a go that's fine by me. Edit - aligned to this I can't see us signing any players who are going to be genuine top six quality out of the gate. So I can't really see the risk in the above approach.

Only real downer of pre season has been Travis. He's been consistently excellent since breaking through so it's a bit odd. Maybe waiting to turn it on again?

Did create a couple at Doncaster to be fair. Seems a poor return on a player to get such little all-round game for him. JRC for example offers so much more in that position. Edit - doh talking about Brereton here.

Yes Dolan would actually give their full back a lot to think about. Won't know what hit him.

He's never going to be a box player. He's an inside forward who can dribble a bit and that's about it.

Is Lenihan out? Also think Johnson will definitely play given he has started all recent friendlies.

Been watching since about the 25th minute and have to say we've looked threatening on attack and solid defensively. Really impressed with Fishers distribution and how calm we are playing out the back. Kiss of death to say that I am sure.

I would definitely be happy if Hanley came back. Not perfect but a very good defender at this level and a leader. That said there is absolutely nothing I have seen on this thread that suggests he is coming back unless I missed something.

This is just so disturbing. Why why why why why? We have Travis, Evans, Johnson, Davenport and recently Holtby all playing that holding role and to be honest quite a few of them can do it quite well. Utterly bizarre to be going in for another one.

Whoops! Right you are.

Can't see Carter being dropped as he did pretty well against Doncaster. Williams won't make the team. Reckon Gally and Brereton will swap over. Apart from that I think you're spot on. That defence will get smashed.

Why on earth would they pay £2m to loan a player when they are out of the Champions League? Madness.