The way Henchoz played today I would be supirised if Zurab came back in. Niell is a bit more interesting as Gray has just been outstanding against Spurs. I would suspect Niell will get his place back but it woul dbe harsh on Mickey...

He has to be gone now, we had just about the weakest bench going and he still couldn't sneak on to it. Personally, If Tugay's card is not recinded, I would like to see Gally play on the wing with Bentley inside. Hardly likely though. I can't help but think Hughes has a problem with Gally's attitude. He would have made an appearance by now if it was judged on talent alone. I don't think anyone can argue that Glly is a worse player than Jeffers, Peter, Mokoena or McEverley.

I posted this in the Vinjay thread but it probably bears repeating: When was the last time a club who attract a gate of sub 30k reached the top four? That would be us then. When we won it and were backed in the range of tens of millions by Jack. Next best? Ipswich came fifth in 2001. They were relegated a year later. Next best after that? Us again in 2003 and 2006 when we finished sixth. The only club I can think of who manage to compete despite having a massive disadvantage in terms of crowds is Monaco. And they have fantastically wealthy supporters. On anysort of rational basis we are massively punching above our weight, along with the likesof Bolton and Fulham, any other conclusion is ridiculous. Our task is to build on that, which we seem to be doing a sterling job of, but we are always hamstung- small support means less revenue and less ability to draw top names to us. Which is why our achievements are so impressive. I do not advocate pessimism, but I think it is important to realistically appreciate the disadvantages we face.

Thanks FLB. My team then: Freidal Emerton Ooijer Zurab Gray Bentley Savage Tugay Peter Nonda McCarthy Subs: Brown, Henchoz, Mokoena, Gallagher, Jeffers Gray against Lennon... oh dear! I hope Aaron isn't fit. I would like to see Gally given some time out there but it is easily possible he won't make the bench. If he doesn't make an appearence in the next few games, especially in the injury cirisis we have, that has to be a clear indication he is surplus to requirements. Savage for captain? Or Tugay?

I am abit confused: I thought Ped was injured and Neill was going to make the game. Anyhow, if Savage is available that is a HUGE boost and we might actually be able to win this one. Emerton will surely play rightback.

I have to say that piece is much more well argued than that which graced the board during his visit here. And he does have a couple of points about ambition. The real bone of contention is that Vinjay clearly sees us as a club that has a right to be in the top four, only held back from such a lofty position by the inadequacy of our staff and fanbase. He does not accept that we suffer disadvantages in terms of resources compared to other clubs which makes it very difficult to compete with them. When you consider that we do in actuality suffer a massive resource deficit compared to the top four and even our neighbors, Vinjay does appear suffering from some sort of mania. He is completely unwilling to recognise actual facts. When was the last time a club who attract a gate of sub 30k reached the top four? That would be us then. When we won it and were backed in the range of tens of millions by Jack. Next best? Ipswich came fifth in 2001. They were relegated a year later. Next best after that? Us again in 2003 and 2006 when we finished sixth. While I am a big fan of optimisim - you should always be optimistic in order to target the highest achievement possible - in order to be effective you also need to make sure that optimism is within the realms of realism. Vinjay rejects realism in favor of a vague belief of the intrisic ability for Rovers to be in the top four.

Seconded! How can we be playing players who are not regulars for their club sides? SWP is obvious quality but you cannot bring them in when they are out of practice. We have a real problem so far as strikers go, I guess we can only hope for Ashton to come back and set the world alight. And Carrick needs to lose his place to, or play alongside, someone who can put his foot in and maintain the tempo. In Hargreaves absence the only real candidate is Scott Parker.

I have had a bit of a think about this and I have to say I am a little confused as to where we could play Dave. As an attacking midifelder he can only really, in a 442, play out wide unless we get in a proper holding midfielder. He can't do the Tugay thing of sitting deep, so in the middle Savage or Reid would have to be willing to play deeper which, in turn, reduce their effectiveness. With Bentley having the Right wing stiched up and Mokoena playing so poorly the only way I can see Dunnie breaking into the side is through a spot on the left or having a crack as the second striker up front. He has shown he can do both. I would put money on him, if he does come, being used as a utility player on the bench rather than a starting player, even in the injury crisis we are in at the moment. And if we really can get him for 500k-£1m he would be ideal to bring on to cause problems in the last half hour.

I'm just going to be honest about this- I have seen Warnock play a number of times yet can't really remember anything significant about them. I know he has played for the under 21s but then so has Jay... Anybody feel qualified to give an assessment of the quality of player he is? Ideally we are looking for someone with a bit of pace and good positional sense. Not so bothered about how well he get forward, although that would be a nice bonus. Provided he is not tragic then it should be a decent piece of business, especially if you consider that Neill has lost his place to Emerton and we will recieve £0 if he stays till May.

I don't think that is a very convincing argument. I do not think he could perform much worse than MGP has played in games. He has weaknesses, as do all of our players, but I cannot see why he shouldn't get a shot especially due to: A We have an average of a game every 3-4 days for over a month B We have a squad ravaged by injury C We cannot sign anyone till january D we only have four other fit midfielder (Pedersen is now out). The thing that gets me is that he is a very creative player, somethng we have been missing.

Actually I have to say I am a little puzzled that he plays so far up the pitch even in a 442. If I was Hughes I would tell him to not go past the halfway line and just mop up. He is so hopeless at attacking that it is utterly pointless for him to be n the final third. I suppose the major issue would be that Tugay woul dhave to play further up than he would ideally like but ultimately it has to work better.

I dont think this can be classed as a 'PC' issue, it's is sexism, no other way of looking at it. Newell is just asking for a kicking from the FA. If he wanted to question the involvement of Women in officiating he could have done it in a way that actually had a structured argument and a less provocative vocabulary. Instead he came accross as a bigot. The broader issue of should women officiate is tricky- as it is a man's competition in terms of players you can ask why should women officiate. If the theory of equality was taken to the logical extreme you could say that Women should be allowed to compete on the pitch (might actually happen one day...). What I hardly think is true is that a woman is going to be inherantly worse as an official merely from being a woman.

A. I really want to see Gally given a shot but Hughes doesn't seem to want to throw him in. b. We really cannot play a midfield which has no ball winner in it. It is suicide. We are stuck with the axe I am afraid.

Birmingham are like Rovers academy...

You can't possibly mean that can you? I think even a yeloow would have been harsh. We were well beaten yesterday. We were lucky not have gone down by two or three more. This is becoming repetitve but... 451! Please sparky!

This is insane! We have enough central defenders, when Nelsen is back we will have two international class ones! And we have five strikers (six if you include Bentley), three of whom have real pedigree (McCarthy, Nonda and Roberts). Infact if I was to say what positions least need strengthening it would be those two, GK and right back. Central midfielders and a left back please. I wouldn't care if we don't sign another player aslong as we get those two! I fully support Hughes but his transfer policy has seemed somewhat strange of late.

Sort of off topic a bit, but I remember an article from around 2002 about how Beckham was casting his vote for PFA player of the year and put in................. Tugay! Much to the derision of his teamates at OT. Becks has gone on record as saying he is a huge fan of the turk (as everybody on the planet should be). The reason I bring this up is because I think Beckham has always wanted to be, basically, a Tugay sort of deep playmaker but has never been able to achieve that ambition. In that respect he has always been a victim of his excellent crossing.

Mokoena has to play, it's pretty much a given. We have no midfielders that can play the holding role and are fit apart from him. Some have suggested Neill could stepin, and he is available as Emerton will take his RB slot, but frankly I cannot see Hughes putting a player with little or no experience in midfield there against the league leaders. We have to switch to 451 mainly becuase in that formation Mokoena plays excellently and we become solid. My team: McCarthy Pedersen Bentley Tugay Gallagher Mokoena Neill Zurab Ooijer Emerton Freidal Subs: Brown, Henchoz, Peter, Nonda, Jeffers By all means haul MGP off for Peter if he doesn't perform, and bring on Nonda in the last 30 minutes, but honestly we have to play 451 today. Otherwise I really fear for the result, and thats from one of the more optimistic posters on this board.

What we can offer to Beckham: Probably around 50k a week (50% of his current wages) Mark Hughes A central midfield role (play where Tugay plays now) Probably as high a standard of football as will be available for him (Celtic would be the only club that i can see fancying him, and promising first team football, and being in the CL), but then so can all the other teams in the Prem. I doubt the UEFA cup would be a major factor. Near his friends in manchester. What we can't offer Beckham: As high wages as the likes of Tottenham, Newcastle, Celtic and, possibly, Villa. As large crowds as the Geordies and Celtic. As high a profile as the likes of Geordies, Spurs and Celtic Penetration into the US market. --------------------------------------------------------------------

Do we need him in january? Currently able to play in central defence we have Ooijer, Nelsen, Zurab, Neill (freely available for the centre as EMerton has RB sewn up and we surely must be signing a proper LB), Henchoz, Todd, Matteo. I would say both Todd and Matteo would have to leave to even make it remotely likely we will sign him. The only difference would be if he was real quality- ie. near the Nelsen end of the scale. You cannot turn those players down.

If we didn't play the axe our midfield would be totally overrun. I cannot think of a midfield of any period that did not have at least one player who could put a tackle in the middle of the park, it's suicide! What we need is a player better than the axe at carrying the water- winning the ball and distributing it well.

While Chelsea have certainly overtaken Utd in terms of my level of hatred Utd are good for second place. Personally I quite like Arsenal, they play good football and have good players. Arsene is morphing into an individual as lothesome as Fergie as the years pass but you have to take you hat off to Wenger's team's style achieved with (compared to Man U and Chelsea) smaller expenditure. I dislike Spurs fans but like Martin Jol and how the Directors are putting together a team. Newcastle are pathetically run and their fans are tiresome.

To be honest once everyone is fit we will have a very good side all over the pitch, plus (in Tugay, Roberts, Zurab, Peter) decent quality on the bench. Nonda McCarthy Pedersen Savage Reid Bentley Neill Nelsen Ooijer Emerton Freidal The left side still looks a little weak I suppose, but that can be addressed in the January window. Damn injuries. Physio Room has Reid and Roberts not back 'til Febuary.... Physio Room

I wouldn't say we are short of that kind of midfielder at all! Bentley, Peter and Gallagher are all precisely that sort. You could even argue that McCarthy can fill that role. What we need desperatley is a decent ball winner.

We are going to get absolutely murdered unless we switch to 451. There is absolutely no way our midfield will cope otherwise. Man Utd to win by a goal. Incidentally we are just two points behind where we were in the table as at this stage (11 games played) last season. Bit of cheery news in dark times.