So many still refer to the Rovers performance against Spurs as being awful but its obvious now that they have won 4 on the bounce and annhialated Soton that they were playing earlier this season to get Santini sacked. Our biggest problem was timing, if we had played em 2 wks earlier we would prob have had 3 more points. It'll be interesting to see where they finish and a lot will depend on them keeping King and Defoe away from Arse and Chelsea and Keane away from Everton in January. Never shy of your own trumpet TND..... Seriously while i agree that we lack strikers which come anywhere near the quality of Spurs' strikeforce we are decent i most other areas. I would stick my neck out and say that, Ledley King aside, the rest of the Spurs squad is much of a muchness with ours (Carrick, Davis,Brown etc promise much but are not really firing yet). Indeed I would say that Ferguson would walk into their team and I reckon they would give Emerton a crack at their left side (he was actually connected with them recently) and their full backs seemed as bad as ours, in fact Niell was the best FB on the pitch by a distance. The idea that we are poor all over the pitch in the way that Southampton, West Brom and Palace are is a myth. We have some great players, especially in midfield, while the likes of Todd and Reid have really come good. Gallagher promises alot, Dickov works hard but frankly we lack confidence and power up front. Hughes will be licking his lips. Two or three quality signings and the injection of some belief in the side and we have the potential to rocket up the table. He has, as you said yourself, made us hard to beat and will now look at the attacking side of the game. Can people give the "oh God, we are so awful" a rest....... it is just not true.

Thats a great post Bryan, but there is an additional element to it I think. Reid and Emerton work very hard and are defensively sound while providing a moderate attacking threat. I would imagine the fear is that MGP might not be able to perform defensively as well due to his sleder physique and more attacking mentality. With a relatively lightweight midfield pairing of Ferguson and Tugay, even Flitcroft cant throw himself around that well these days, it might be a major concern that we will find it hard to get posession in the first place and our left in particular- with so many problems at full back too- could be dangerously exposed. I am sure these factors are working against MGP too.

My central point is that we have easily as good a squad of players as everton, charlton, bolton. The difference is how effectively we use them. We do need a good striker and a good partner for Ferguson but there is no defence in saying we have poor players. The simple truth is while none of them are world beaters they are of a similar standard to those available to around 10 of the other Prem teams. I personally feel chucking five or six first teamers out and having a massive reshuffle over January would do far more harm than good.

I seem to be a to be at odds with most of the MB here but I think we have an extremely decent sqaud. Friedel, Todd, Short, Ferguson, Emerton, Reid and Dikov have all looked like players who would get into, even walk into, most of our rivals sides. On top of that Niell, Gray (frozen out though), Gallagher Tugay, Thompson have all looked good at varying stages. We need a couple of additions but in real terms the only difference between our team and that of 2002 is Berg, Duff and Cole. And that has been arguably mitigated, if not absolved, by Ferguson and Dikov. You can complain all you like but if the squad assasination recomended on this board every week when we lose actually happend we would not have a team at all. Any decent manager would be able to work wonders with our squad and a small transfer budget. We arguably posess more overall quality than Everton- they might have found in their transferless misery a team solidatity which we sadly lack. If you lot were TOffees you would of had them all out last year after their disasterous performance. We will stay up even if we dont buy a player. Hopefully we will and do much better than that. Naieve? Bugger off you whingers, salute them as heroes one week and slag them off the next if you like. Rome was not built in a day.

What the hell has Todd done wrong? First name on the team sheet at the moment (well after Brad, Ferguson and Dickov)

Uh, I really dont see how you criticise the Rovers effort. Everybody seemed to work hard. The general consensus was a lack of imagination which I would concur with. I think Brad is right that it is a one off. They closed us down and didnt let our wingers move- hopefully Hughes is working a way round that.

I really feel that DM and CB are the only areas where we can be certain of getting better quality than we already have. Plus a good central midfielder would revolutionise the team, allowing Ferguson to get forward and providng our much mialigned defence with some cover (Browns run a good example of where this was lacking). So on that note- a decent DM: Sean Davis or Parker on loan, or someone like those players. Perhaps living in dream world, but Im more concerned by the type of player than the actual individual. CB: Really dont know but someone like a younger version of Short but quicker. And, although I doubt we will have the cash, a RB to back up for Niell. If we rely on Reid there we could be very defensively shakey.

Personally I feel we will win this one. Unchanged side apart from the reintroduction of Gray at left back. Gallagher to retain his place as he should get more space- I cant see Palace being as tight as Spurs although i am sure they will try to emulate them. I would like to see MGP on the bench. 3-1 Rovers

I think we will roll them over. If we can keep the work rate up we should easily beat them- we have players of amuch higher quality than Cardiff. Despite the defeat yesterday Hughes has got the commitment and performance of the players significantly improved- the only way we could lose a game like this is if we lose our cohesion and ethic. That should not happen, hopefully......

The difference between us winning and losing yesterday was Michael Brown's run to set up the goal and our wingers getting no space behind their fullbacks. Tottenham's discipline won that match, against other sides (even the spurs of three weeks ago) we would of been extremely effective. Jim and Rev etc. all moan about how they see no commitment in the team, I do not see how they could have possibly been disappointed on that front yesterday.

lets not do the whole rollercoaster thing where when we win we are fantastic ands we lose we are abysmal.... Today the game was extremely even, both sides lacked quality in the final third and the final pass. Spurs had strikers who are a class well above ours but apart from that there was absolutely nothing between the two sides. When we conceded Tottenham stuck nearly everyone behind the ball and the only eay we were going to score was through a set piece and we are awful at those. We do need a bit of space behind a defence to get on top (think of all our goals against Birmingham) but so do most sides these days. My message to Mark would be- Dont change anything drasticaly, we are obviously improving. Rome was not built in a day. Ferguson was well under par today, but still a decent performance. Niell was excellent, Tugay was good, Emerton and Reid were average but no worse than that. I thought Todd and Short were good, friedel decent, Gallagher good in parts. Dickov was excellent as usual. Thompson, Bothroyd and Johansson were all disappointing- the only real chage I would want is Gray to make a reappearence at left back. Defensively Nissa is great but so many times we needed that overlap which just wouldnt happen. If Hughes panics like some on here I will think much the less of him.

Well IMO Stead is a proper centre forward. If he succeeds in recovering some "touch" and the fitness he had last season i have no doubt he should be the starter guy in the attack, and his partner could be perfectly Gally. I think Bothroyd and Dickov could be great replacements to turn the luck in a match. Stead is unfit, had some problems regarding his confidence, etc. but remember the impression he made last year when he showed what he can do on the field. I'm convinced he'll be the next great English striker (last year most of us thought he could be in the English squad for Euro 2004). Stead, like Jansen, has looked poor all year. And he hasnt scored- its a shame but Dickov, Gallagher and Bothroyd have all looked far better. Both Hughes and Souness gave him a crack this season and he just hasnt done it. He will have to wait like the others did.

We are on telly again! Four games in five weeks! Wish i coulkd be there but it is the next best thing. That Spurs are doing so badly with the resources at their disposal is astounding. Three international quality forwards, four extremely talented central midfielders, the mercurial simon davies for a right winger and in King and Robinson two more regulars in the England squad. Spurs have never really had, as long as I can remember anyway, the grit and determination of their red neighbours and this seems to be costing them heavily again. Despite their superior personnel we are, on current form, the better team and we should win at home. Reid's comments after Fulham last saturday gave the impression that the team is full of confidence and with Reid's suspension not kicking in yet and Bothroyd available we have real strength in depth. My team: Gray will, IMHO, offer a lot more going forward than Johansson although he aquitted himself well in the last game. It is a bit harsh freezing Stead out but the only other option is to drop MGP who must be hoping for a few minutes on the pitch by now. Plus a contigency plan needs to be developed for Tugay's return to his old inconsistent self and Reid getting a three match suspension.

Well you would hope that for his wages he would fight for a place and put pressure on the other players. What I find amusing is that Souness said we didnt need a left winger last season and Reid, Thompson and Emerton would be enough. That looked manifestly untrue as we edured a terrible time but now, under Hughes, it seems true after all! Indeed Emerton seems a far superior left winger than a right one. Im sure it is all down to tactics, confidence and fitness regeimes but if big Graeme had only got it to work... The quality we posess in the midfield is first rate and it is hard to envisage De Pedro donning the Blue and White halves ever again. He hasnt even been picked in the reserves for a while and I would guess need Thompson, Emerton, Reid and MGP all to be injured/suspended to get a game. There must be a way of getting him off the bill on the cheap.

Well, I posted this in the wrong thread. I am more than a tad ethusiastic about Gally.... Now that is actually something about him that really impresses me. He can dribble, he can cross (although that was relatively poor yesterday) has a bit of pace, good technique and simply awesome movement (the best bit of his game IMHO). Our domination of the first half came down partly to him with his movement behind the fullbacks and dropping off to hold up te he ball making him exceptionally hard to mark. It allows the midfielders to maraud into the space he leaves behind and gets them involved in moves up front. As he builds up experience and hopefully keeps his feet on the ground he could become a world class player. Some of his passing can be sublime too and his work rate was incredible yesterday. Dickov had a better match overall, how anybody can advocate hime being dropped from the team is beyond me, and Gallagher certainly was not exceptional- but there is that sort of Henry spark to Gallagher's game that is inspiring. I have never really seen a British player play that way. Im not saying he will definately be anywhere as good as a player like Henry, only time will tell, but there is potential for him to become the fulcrum of the side. Bothroyd's height and power leads you to think that maybe there could be a real long term partnership there for future seasons. The main issue would be that Bothroyd also has a penchant for dropping off and going wide, although not in the same way as Gallagher, which would leave us without a target man. Arsenal get by with Henry and Bergkamp though...... Anyhow, with Dickov in his current astounding form, lets not make any bones about it, we will just have to wait and see. If Gallagher is not a first team regular and the darling of the Blackburn End (perhaps even Scotland) by this time next season I will eat my hat.

Now that is actually something about him that really impresses me. He can dribble, he can cross (although that was relatively poor yesterday) has a bit of pace and simply awesome movement (the best bit of his game IMHO). Our domination of the first half came down partly to him with his movement behind the fullbacks and dropping off to hold up te he ball making him exceptionally hard to mark. It allows the midfielders to maraud into the space he leaves behind and gets them involved in moves up front. As he builds up experience and hopefully keeps his feet on the ground he could become a world class player. Some of his passing can be sublime too and his work rate was incredible yesterday. Dickov had a better match overall, how anybody can advocate hime being dropped from the team is beyond me, and Gallagher certainly was not exceptional- but there is that sort of Henry spark to Gallagher's game that is inspiring. I have never really seen a British player play that way. Im not saying he will definately be anywhere as good as a player like Henry, only time will tell, but there is potential for him to become the fulcrum of the side. Bothroyd's height and power leads you to think that maybe there could be a real long term partnership there for future seasons. The main issue would be that Bothroyd also has a penchant for dropping off and going wide, although not in the same way as Gallagher, which would leave us without a target man. Arsenal get by with Henry and Bergkamp though...... Anyhow, with Dickov in his current astounding form, lets not make any bones about it, we will just have to wait and see. If Gallagher is not a first team regular and the darling of the Blackburn End (perhaps even Scotland) by this time next season I will eat my hat.

Are you sure Reid is suspended? I though he had untill the 6th of Desember to answer to the FA.. Yes, my mistake. Well, it looks like Thommo will be on the bench again. MGP can forget about getting a game again. Its nice to have all the midfielders playing so well.

Im sure that can easily be substantiated by sending an email to the television studio. If you mean self governing as in their own parliament an so on it is impossible. It is impossible and indefensible to set up a government in the British democratic framework (or that of any 'western' country) on a racial/religious basis.

Well, it looks like after Tugay's first class performance today it will be a straight swap of Thompson for Reid who is supended against Tottenham. That is almost certain. Thompson will ony get a shot in the middle if Tugay underperforms again and is taken off. Still its nice to have these problems

Great determined performance to get the three points. Dickov remained at the same high standard he always does. Linking up well, winning fouls as well as ANOTHER PENALTY. A perfect penalty too. Gallagher- great goal and adds a whole, if not two, new dimesion/s to our attacking play. He swings out wide and dribbles at defenders and also drops deep to play through balls. He oozes quality and the prospect of a partnership of him and Bothroyd promises great things, although how Dickov will be displaced I cannot justify. His work rate was as good as Dickov's too which was fantastic to see. Great finish for the goal too. Emerton was excellent- continuing his good run of form and showing his confidence in his stepovers etc. Tugay was brilliant- I have given him a lot of stick but his closing down was top notch, if he could do that every week we would be set. There is a nagging feeling though he might revert to his usual self next week. Definately gets the benefit of the doubt however. Hopefully Ferguson can improve that side of his game too, although he wasnt bad. Passing was good although he didnt see enough of the ball to make a huge impact. Shot a couple of times when he should of laid off and the yellow card was silly. He cant be far off a suspension now, can he? Reid didnt reach the heady heights of last weeks performance but made some excellent runs behind the full backs and was extremely effective at closing down. Shame he will be suspended. Niell had a good game, getting forward well and did some good covering defensive runs. Still plays a lot of the opposition onside on occasion and also finds himself stranded on the halfway line from time to time. Johansson defended well but obviously lacks the quality to go forward, I cannot see him playing there on a regular basis. Entertaining to see him turn their full back inside out from time to time only for his touch to let him down. Todd was solid although hus lack of inches showed on occasion. Infinately more secure than Amo or Matteo. A permanent fixture now. Nice to see him steaming toward the 18 yard box, Short showed why he was our best defender today. Friedel- one sublime save and back to his authorative self controlling the box when given a chance. It was not all good though- if Cole and Boa Morte had finished better we would of been in trouble. For playing a side down to ten men in the last twenty minutes out tactics of sitting back and trying to hit them on the break was a bit disappointing. The technical quality of our front six was high enough for us to try and keep the ball but we couldnt do it. This is partly due to Fulham not being a bad side and being away from home but I still feel we could have made a much better fist of it. As a defensive unit we had some problems as well, people losing their man and the line not holding itself too well. This, more than an other area, is the most worrying. Individually good performances but not perhaps as well organised as a unit. While Ferguson and Tugay particularly closed down well the lack of a true 'defensive midfileder' could have contributed and we might just lack that bit of quality in defense. Shaping up well though, I can really see us begin to assert ourselves a bit and start to ping it around especially at home. Thompson will slot in where Reid was and Bothroyd will get a spot on the bench. Ultimately if we can tighten up even further our defensive side of the game we will be a side who even the big five would not expect to defeat off hand. We have to steadily pick up points over Christmas and in the transfer window, if Hughes buys well, good times could be coming! ps. MGP is going to find it almost impossible to get in the side. Thompson, Reid and Emerton are all good players and he will need two of them to get injuries/suspensions to get a spot. Its a shame but you can hardly advocate dropping them if they are playing well.

Skin colour / racial history is of absolutely no interest to me , Joey , as I have said on more than one occasion .( Some people , though , choose to believe what they want to - that's a reflection either of their intelligence ,intolerance of free speech and/or inabilty to fully digest posts ! ) As for your first sentence , I believe society needs shared values - ours go back to ancient times and are rooted on fundamental Judeo/Christian traditions that have evolved into what is broadly regarded as democratic values. There are those newcomers in our society who know little of British history and what they do know they hold in utter contempt . Islam and western style democracy are concepts that are incompatible . To me that is simply a statement of fact ; I neither hate Muslims nor have any regard for them , I am simply living with this social experiment like everyone else . But the questions I pose will one day have to be addressed - as they are in Holland.... Cheers . I accept that culture clash is an issue. Any society demands integration, social cohesion is required to prevent the ghettoisation of any of its members and allow individuals to reap the full benefits of living in a multi cultural society. I do not however accept that we should just get members of Islam to pack their bags and get out. We crapped on their parade for two hundred years we can accept a bit of crapping on ours, if they do (and I really would say they do not). Also those Judeo-Christian democratic values you highlight should morally prevent us from kicking them out- Muslims, as long as they do not break the law (something I hasten to add most have not), are our complete socio-economic political equals in every regard. It is a problem that will be dealt with and overcome by a concilliatory- dare I say liberal approach. Every culture has had to adapt at some stage to the introduction of another with varying results. The only other way you could deal with it is build a wall to surround half the world. Oh, what a fine terryfying war that would lead to in fifty years time. Rather than try and get Muslim's kicked out why not have a look at how you can help integrate their culture into ours. It is firstly far more likely to help the good of your fellow man (this is what drives this all, right?), and secondly far more likely to have any impact at all on anything. Cheers.

Exactly! It's not intended so much a punishment as a deterrent. Capital punishment is abhorrent but it's existence is necessary. Punishment only comes when all else fails. Capiche? Kinell JBN I thought you'd never get there, but I see there is a glimmer of hope. Okay my mistake, i didnt phrase it very well. What I meant to say was people who hold views like yourself and convey them in your manner exude menace. Executing, chopping thumbs off, expanding the powers of the police, expanding the powers of the army, kill all the peadophiles, kick out the muslims, God Save The Queen. I suppose it is all only meant in the nicest, most socially conscious way, and you wouldn't kill a fly unless it had been convicted by twelve of its peers who acted fully independently through the use of their conscience, but it still remains terryfying. But hell, the buses will run on time.....

Correct - and that's what most of the PC brigade don't seem to realise . Blacks (Christians ) have infinitely more in common with Whites (Christians) than they do with the Muslims , who are culturally and increasingly politically out on a limb of their own making . So why does it always come down to bickering about "race" ? The answer to that , I'd suggest , is that for too long people have been brainwashed into believing it's all about race . Kids are bombarded with mis-information from day one of their lives from groups and organisations (CRE for eg ) who have either vested interests (it keeps them in jobs) , or they have naive political dogmatic ideals that ALL races and cultures are capable of living together . Tell that to the Palestinians and the Jews. The end result ? We are told that we are all the same - but yet we are all different . We must all live together - but diverse communities are encouraged to flourish seperately (faith schools ?) . We are in the post Christian secular era - and yet we have to promote Islam at all costs so as not to "offend" the newcomers. This leads me to a question Shaddy posed . Just so I can nail some thing down about your postion on this: As long as everybody was culturally identical, or at least culturally compatible in your view, you would have no reason to kick them out? Skin colour/racial history is completely unimportant in your eyes? Cheers.

Um, for once on this messageboard we seem to have a consensus. A line should definately be drawn in the sand. I in no way endorse capital punishment (it is, in my opinion, indefensibly morally wrong and as someone has pointed out- what if you get the wrong man?) but we need to tighten up on this. Mandatory life imprisonment would recieve my vote. On the other hand a draconian regieme of punishment and prejuidice that BP and TND are after is a bit frightening. What is the "liberal conspiracy" and what is the alternative that you are suggesting? Here you wish to annihalate peadophiles, something that is understandable- but from the rhetoric you use you inspire little confidence that that is all you wish to annihalate. Broadly arbitrary deportation of illegal immigrants seems fairly high up the list, TND is looking to have pick pockets having their thumbs chopped off, you obviously dont like liberals so what are you going to do to them if you cannot vote them out? I cannot accuse you of going for something really outrageous but there is just an aggressive flavour to your language that inspires a very, very deep fear of the day you, or people like you, might find themselves in power. I would take dull, confused, nicey-nicey, cant we all be friends, bumbling politicians over that. That vague notion aside there is just one other thing I would like to disabuse you of. There seems to be some crazy idea that sixty, or even a hundred and fifty, years ago before the leftward shift in British politics we were all better off. We were not- sure, Britain had an empire- but the money from it (made as, I guess, illegal immigrants) mostly went to banks and big business- not a town like Blackburn. Nationalism that you espouse drove europe to war twice with calamatous results (indeed the framework for peace has large been driven by a liberal concilliatory framework that you despise). Living conditions were in squalour compared to the USA across the country. No Health Service, no decent public education. What golden era is it that you want to hark back to, what streets paved with gold did the liberals steal from your grandfather? Fair enough, it might have gone too far now but the socio-liberal ideal gave most people a vote, an education, a health service, peace, prosperity in parts. Give it its due.

yes that's correct, and that's because society does not treat people of different races equally correct, but I'm sure you understand that language changes depending on the context or the inference. are you a a smiths fan who's anti euro or are you a fan of the anti-european smiths? I don't get it. no, would you take it seriously? you don't get it don't you? as the dominant race in this country then this "inverse racism" that you are so concerned about has little or no effect on you personally, are you going to be denied opportunities, or your dignity or be chased in the street because of your ethnicity? Do you feel hard done by in the same way that Shaun WPhilllips feels hard done by? Can you go about your daily routine without having people throw bananas at you? IMO the research and effort that you have put into digging out old crime reports and then singling out the injustice from the colour of their skin reveal nothing but borderline racism and seething resentment. And way to go for pointing out some obscure lyric from some obscure song from some obscure pop group, that's explosive evidence in proving that the tide is indeed flooding in. Amazing! A simply awesome analysis of this whole inverse racism thing. It's actual existance is minute yet it is conjoured up by people as pervasive in society. Just a afer thin argument for prejuidice to hide behind. Don't mean to be abusive AESF but the views you are purporting are just unsustainable and, to me anyway, extremely distasteful.