3 minutes ago, TruRover said:

Isn’t this the first game he’s missed?

Yes, Yes it is...

7 minutes ago, 47er said:

We could be 23rd in the League based on the last 2 results! Bit early for those sorts of conclusions.

Anyway, they didn't have Clarke then did they?!!!

 However we are 4th even with the last 2 results...

Anyway, we didn't have Hyam then either! But hey I guess only you can jump to conclusions early 🤪

13 minutes ago, 47er said:

I know which one Boro went for!!

Who are currently 23rd in the league with the most goals conceded so I wouldn't be thinking they are the grail we should be looking at with jealousy

7 minutes ago, AJW said:

So basically we don’t replace payers with better quality players  we only replace them when they leave 🤔🤔🤔… and they they wonder why we keep finishing mid table 

Or "we don't replace players with better players if the one we already have is still on a long term contract that nobody is interested in signing!"

15 minutes ago, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

A squad should get stronger each year.  Having to replace that amount of players us really poor from the previous management.  Clearly the result of underinvestment and too many loans. 

Whilst we've lost a lot, there are also members of the current squad who need replacing with better quality. That's not being addressed at all because we are still plugging holes.

I'm not getting into a debate on whether we are stronger or weaker than last year as truly until I see more than a handful of games I wont judge new signings or how they fair in relation to the previous player. Agree totally on previous management buck stops with Mowbray & Waggott on that and Venkys for not potting him sooner.

You can't complain at what a new team is doing when they have been in post mere weeks, they are fire fighting from the previous regime this window. In truth we lost 2 players we would have loved to keep around Van Hecke & Rothwell, one who was on loan so it's not like we could change that, the other went to the Prem, it is what it is! Lenihan & Nyambe who were decent enough but wanted more than they are worth IMO and the rest deadwood that had no part to play if we want to progress. Let's see how the new management team do in January if they are given the chance, that is.

3 minutes ago, JHRover said:

It's 12. I've named them and can name them again if you need. 

I'm not interested in what the individuals did or didn't do, they were all experienced players who when fit could be called upon to fill in or could be turned to in the event of injuries or suspensions to see us through. 

6 while hoping 3-4 kids make up the shortfall is not covering 12 departures no. And that's assuming the 3-4 kids are up to the same standard, which nobody knows yet.

As above I'd hoped there was a plan to IMPROVE on the depth and options of last season with more quality but seems merely filling in the gaps and hoping is the plan.

You do not understand the word replaced if you think a player taking another's position is not a replacement. You are complaining that "In Your Opinion" we have reduced the quality in the squad, two completely different things. On that point you can carry on complaining as I will judge when I see them play for "Rovers" more than a handful of times then a discussion can be had

8 minutes ago, JHRover said:

We've lost 12 this summer, so bringing in a maximum of 6 to replace them is quite a scale back. If you are 'building' a squad it seems odd to me that the response to losing 12 players is to at most sign 5 and bring in 1 on loan.

Not really lost 12 though have we? it's really 8, and a push 10 if you count Davenport & Zeefuik who never really got a look in through injury or just not deemed wanted by the previous incumbent. So 6 in while adding 3 or 4 youth players is covering the numbers

5 minutes ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

Well if Venkys Broughton & Waggot agree with that valuation he wont be going anywhere this window

3 minutes ago, islander200 said:

He had a decent league debut on Sunday but it was well marshalled by Ayala and he picked up Grant for the majority.

Id argue both Jones and De Ligt bodies had grown out more than Phillips when they both made there debuts.

Suppose we will see but in my opinion and that's all it is JDT will want a bit more experience and strength back there.

Still see VDB and another coming in 

You might be right and i'd agree JDT would want more experience if Phillips were to be 3rd choice. As 4th/5th choice getting mainly Cup starts and 15-20 mins off the bench every few weeks I think he would be delighted.

1 minute ago, islander200 said:

JDT plan was never for Phillips to play a major role this season.

I don't mind Phillips learning and making mistakes at another club whilst on loan but if we are serious about going for promotion then I don't want him having to start many matches for us this season 

Yes but Phil Jones wasn't in Allardyce plans until he was needed as a last resort likewise de Ligt wasn't in Ajax plans until he was needed then he didn't leave the first team picture. They took the chance handed to them putting a marker down and they did it a higher level than we are currently

1 minute ago, islander200 said:

2 centre halves we want

That might be true but until 2 arrive it could have been 2 in with Phillips on the way out to Spurs, contingency plans would be in place. If he signs a deal here we might only want 1 or we still want 2 and Carter goes out on loan who knows?

4 minutes ago, islander200 said:

I think potentially Phillips will be better than Carter but when JDT had more of a choice he chose Barnes ahead of him and if Carter had been fit he would have been also.

He is not long 17 and is still growing into his body.His talent will see him through in the short term but you cant be relying on a lad of his age to do it at centre half in the championship over the course of a season.

Let's see but once we sign a couple then Phillips first team action will be minimal imo and wouldn't be shocked to see him loaned out if he isn't sold to Spurs

He isn't displacing Ayala or Wharton, he will be fighting it out with Carter for the bench, each of them will be getting double figures appearances this season injuries withstanding that's even with another being brought in

2 minutes ago, islander200 said:

He is only getting minutes here due to injuries and our failure to bring in any players tho.

When we do bring in a couple of Defenders and Carter Is fit the Phillips won't be seeing much first team football for us this season imo.

Even with Carter out , Sam Barnes was preferred to him.

Really don't think JDT expected to have to play him at this stage 

Most youth team players get into teams the same way Phil Jones only got in because he was the best of what was available. Sink or Swim, he swam and stayed in the first team...

4 minutes ago, Gav said:

Wilder bid £1m for Lenihan back in 2017/18, are you saying his price has gone down since then?

That doesn't seem to make much sense to me.

£1m... that's not multi-million

6 minutes ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

They were bidding when in the Prem as well in Jan 2020

Did they? was that the same season that the only CB they signed was a kid on loan from Chelsea? must have really wanted Lenihan then huh... or maybe they didn't bid at all? who knows

2 minutes ago, Gav said:

Are you a new Rovers supporter?

Have you heard of Lenihan, Nyambe, Rothwell?

Heard of them yes but Lenihan & Nyambe are never worth multi-millions...

5 minutes ago, JHRover said:

the loss of multi-million assets this summer for nothing, players who had developed and were worth millions

Who are these mythical assets?

1 minute ago, tomphil said:

Spurs aren't going to invest in him then see him sat here as 5th choice they'll want him playing somewhere.

Probably in their youth set up so they can nurture him themselves into their way.

That's your way of looking at it. They could be looking at it he is 17, settled in the area/club and around the first team with coaches who are familiar with him. With no upheaval in his circumstances and getting some championship minutes come the end of the season he is 18 and prepared for the changes that are to come.

2 minutes ago, Admiral Nelsen said:

 

As much as we're going through a crisis there now, we're obviously looking to bring at least one defender in, and in a fortnight will have Wharton and Carter back. 

That would put Phillips as at best fourth choice, and that's only if you put him ahead of Carter, which given that he is still our player, we definitely shouldn't do in my opinion.

 

If he goes, get the best deal that we can and let him go for me. 

On the right terms which for me would be no wage contribution from our end I would happily take him as 5th choice. It's a team game and a highly rated defender on a loan while pocketing a few million in the process is a deal that is too good to pass up if we feel the best thing to do is sell him now instead of waiting for a tribunal to decide a fee.

2 minutes ago, JeffRover said:

I agree with some of the comments above that loaning Phillips back would be a total insult to the club and should not be entertained under any circumstances.

Downgrading of the squad, such as replacing a permanent player with a loan one, should not be tolerated.

We would be in the same position as we are right now, either way he leaves at the end of this season. He would be loaned here as spurs wont use him in 1st team but could get him some "proper" game time here but he would still be 4th/5th choice. Works for me

Think the Phillips situation is actually in our hands, Spurs want to get get in ahead of other clubs so will have to offer a decent amount above expected tribunal fee and wouldn't shock me if Spurs left him here for the rest of the season on loan in which case the player still gets the same amount of games he would get if he signed up with us this season anyway.

52 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Again - I'm not really interested in the ins and outs of those situations.

Your account might be absolutely correct - maybe Nyambe was 'kippered' by his agent (has he sacked him yet?), maybe the players did lead the club on a merry dance, maybe it is ultimately the players decision on whether to sign.

None of it actually matters. My view is that the situation is much more complex simply than poor old Rovers doing their very best but struggling against FFP/richer clubs/greedy agents. I think Rovers are at least partly to blame for those players leaving and much of that comes down to the way Rovers have gone about their business over the last 2-3 years.

I'm not going to go through what I mean by that again suffice to say that the fact so many players have all rejected Rovers' terms points to a serious problem on the part of the club. The fact that those players would prefer to go to Middlesbrough or Wigan is alarming.

I don't know what you are going on about with the £20k a week wage ceiling. I can assure you that had we offered any of those players - and indeed Brereton - close to £20k a week in the lead up to or during the summer of 2021 all of them would have signed up without a moment's hesitation.

The reason the Brereton situation has ended up in the way it has is because having committed big money to him, persevered with him for 3 years, done nothing on his contract and then he's suddenly come good quite rightly he's now in a different stratosphere on his expectations and demands. But had we had one eye on the medium to long term in the summer of 2021 we'd have extended his terms if we were so confident of his ability and the investment.

Anyhow I think we are drifting off topic. The point I was trying to make was that we have lost a lot of money already on players that we should have made a lot of profit from. If the Club was serious about protecting its investments and delivering a return on them then that wouldn't have happened. Likewise people online saying we need to sell Brereton to emulate Brentford need to wake up - we don't do what Brentford do - we don't keep our assets under long term contracts and we don't reinvest when we sell.

So to my mind it is clear - the chances of reinvestment are slim to zero. Broughton and Tomasson may well have a plan to replace him if sold but Venkys are still in charge here.

I'm sure Mowbray had a plan for reinvesting the  Armstrong cash but he wasn't allowed.

Finally - having failed to keep Lenihan, Nyambe and co. out of the clutches of rival clubs due to not offering acceptable terms to them what are the chances of us both finding and then paying a Brereton replacement? We could have £20 million to spend on transfer fees but if we have a wage ceiling akin to League One clubs we ain't getting better.

If we had given Brereton a new contract summer of 2021 questions would have been raised on here at the time, that's even if he would have wanted to stay as he was getting serious stick for 3 years prior. We signed him on a 5-yeal deal too so he was an asset that was under a long term contract, it just took him 4 years to get himself into a position where he is too good for where we are right now so he holds all the cards to his future.

Just now, islander200 said:

Sharpe reckons Lenihen was offered a deal not far off what we were offering Davies which was 26k per week.

So again am 100% confident that it is correct what my friend told me, Darragh was offered a long term deal at £22k per week

In which case I'm happy enough that he isn't here as its far too much for us to commit to a 28 year old decent Championship defender.

5 minutes ago, rover23 said:

Also, are we changing the name of this thread to ‘Guess how much we would have got in transfer fees for players that have gone’? 

 

Quire frankly, who gives a shit. They’re gone, we are top of the league, have an exciting manager in charge and are looking to make some new signings in the next two weeks. Get over the past and start living in the present. 

Calm down deary. There's 514 pages of posts i'm sure some of which you will find acceptable, I suggest you engage with them and ignore the ones that don't. Some clearly care for the posts that are on topic and have engaged.

Just now, Sweaty Gussets said:

Sheff Utd bid more than that for Lenihan alone when Wilder was there. 

Did they? they were bidding in 2017 Pre Pandemic rimes when money was flowing better in the lower leagues and they didn't pay more than £1m for anyone that window, so I highly suggest they didn't...