35 minutes ago, JHRover said:

The Club will try and divide and conquer. They will try and make this out to be an issue with particular individuals, their approach and demands rather than it being a bigger issue with the club.

Easier to accept and blame individuals than face up to a bigger problem.

We can see that with Waggott's comments to the Forum. He's driven a wedge between the situation with Lenihan/Rothwell and that with Nyambe. The first two on the lookout for their final big pay day whereas Nyambe categorised differently, reference to no communication with his agent of course designed to heap responsibility on his camp.

So in the case of Nyambe the aim is to shift nearly all responsibility and blame away from the owners and Club onto Nyambe and his agent. Make them out to be unreasonable in their demands, make out that they weren't interested in staying and that no matter what the Club did it was always going to end in failure.

Of course Nyambe and his agent won't be able to defend that until it is too late and they are elsewhere.

This 'divide and conquer' strategy is to turn attention away from the alternative scenario - one which I firmly believe is the case - which is that the Club is almost entirely responsible for this situation, that the Club has done too little too late and behaved appallingly, like it has towards loyal supporters as well. In an attempt to cut corners and save a few quid in the short term they have blown it big time and are now losing assets.

Not one of the academy lads have signed new deals. Seems strange. Almost as though the common denominator - the Club - has some responsibility for that.

Tried saving a few quid on ticket refunds and price increases = result of collapsing ticket sales and attendances

Tried saving a few quid on getting by with the old pitch = games get called off when the weather is bad in humiliating fashion

Tried saving on contract extensions and pay rises = result is valuable players walk

All part of a big game going on here - losing Nyambe for nothing will rankle both in the stands and in Pune at the summit meeting so best get the BS out there quick.

Shame so many don't see when they are being played and taken for fools. I woke up to it many months ago and I think slowly more and more have.

You can call it “waking up” all you want, but that’s just baiting and patronising anyone who isn’t convinced that we’re the worst run club in the world.

It’s such a shame that there is no middle ground anymore according to your posts, and I just don’t understand the need to constantly seek out a rationale that supports “pointing the finger”.

Perhaps “waking up” to the FACT that the club CANNOT compete with anyone in the league above for wages OR with parachute payments…

You may realise why individuals considering their families, futures and bank balances - might not want to sign for a team (they don’t support like you or I)

1 hour ago, 47er said:

I accept that it is possible that Nyambe could leave whatever was offered. I don't know how much he earns or how much he wants. But its strange that 3 players whose contracts run out at the end of the season all seem likely to leave.

That suggests to me that they feel undervalued but that's merely my opinion. Whatever the truth of it, there clubs don't seem to have this problem at this scale do they? Or have I got that wrong too?

I get the feeling this is more of a national / global trend because of clubs cutting back from March 2020 due to income streams falling off a cliff.

Certainly looks that way if you put contracts ending 2022 into transfer market. Arguably the most valuable player in the world still hasn’t committed to arguably the richest club in the world…!

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/statistik/endendevertraege

20 minutes ago, Silas said:

All valid and fair points.

But I can't say it still doesn't grate on me that we have a great crosser of the ball in Giles that got countless assists when at Cardiff, and here we are saying we have no one to get on the end of them because Diaz is out.

That can't be right. Especially in a team desperate for goals. 

My opinion of his individual attributes, I’d say his pace / jump / ability to head is good but he lacks reactions and aggression at crosses. Compare his ability to dominate defenders to Rudy Justhead (Gestede)… chalk and cheese.

That said, I can’t remember another player puncturing a lung so I probably know fuck all. He hasn’t been played in the position or team to benefit from consistent quality delivery either.

2 hours ago, Silas said:

And experienced..... 6ft 4inch......striker....for £5 million.....in peak age of career.

Yet here we are. 

Perhaps this is more down to position, tactics and delivery?

Playing wide forward and tracking back. When in the centre, generally the lone striker, hence occupied by two centre backs. A team that hasn’t scored many set pieces, tried to pass it to death for 12 months…

I know it’s a different thing, but the amount of defensive headers he won vs Sheff U, surely illustrates Sam G can head a ball?

Perhaps in a two upfront, central, in a team that’s geared for percentages and set pieces, would work more to his strengths?

1 minute ago, RoversClitheroe said:

In other news Pickering offered a contract offer as a reward for his progress.

If only they had done that with Nyambe, Rothwell and Lenihan

I was under the impression they’d been offered deals but rejected.

On 28/02/2022 at 21:36, 47er said:

But it will cost more money to sign and pay Z than it would to keep Nyambe! Where's the logic?

If we keep playing hard-ball like this, we will  be producing great young players for everybody else for free!

 

All of this ignores a couple of key caveats that neither of us know; 

1. Does he even want to stay?

2. Are his demands acceptable?

I share the concern, but we also shared concerns, when certain players were given ridiculous contracts - some of those academy grads too (Lowe, Shakey Jake Kean et al).

Its a difficult balancing act, especially when our main competitors have 30m + in parachute payments per season before we even take turnover into account!

48 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I don't get this backwards logic of directly comparing Nyambe's potential wage to that of our main earners. Circumstance dictates wages im sure as much as anything, including age and where a player has come from. For Gallagher or Kaminski to be on a similar but extended deal would not cause any noticeable rise on the current wage bill, to put Nyambe on par with those 2 will, hence why they are totally different situations. The fact that we have offered as much as we can suggests that we need the owners to be more flexible in how much they are willing to spend to protect an asset.

Some good points on what we’re actually trying wage wise.

I would add to that, there always has to be a wage bill limit, and thus whilst I don’t want see this sort of scenario every season, (players leaving or 1 year remaining) I also don’t want to see the club making loads of players top wage earners just for the sake of keeping hold.

That inhibits our ability to be competitive with potential signings.

Out of the three players - I think it’s obvious that Lenihan leaving would be an absolute disaster. The other two, Id probably put on a similar “very disappointing” scale.

Zeefuik signed and sorted before July 1st though, would make me feel a bit better about the scenario.

@Madon

11 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

No arguments there, with only 8k ST holders, you just aren’t getting more than said 13k/14k for standard games, even when sitting 3rd.

And that would be 10/11k if the team was in 12th-17th.

This isn’t aimed at you MB, I don’t understand the obsession with having everything on sale months before - I mean I can’t empathise because I’ve had an ST for nearly 30 years, but why is 9 days not enough time before a game to buy a ticket?

He’s not clever.

The people behind him, the lobbyists, the money, the “super advisors” and the people who truly don’t give a shit about anyone but their own pocket, they’re the savvy ones.

Without that, he’s a blithering idiot, a privileged and pompous twat and a complete let down as PM.

This country’s governance gets more “trumpian” every sodding day.

9 minutes ago, JHRover said:

I'm not sure Rothwell has caused anything here. He can't force Rovers to make a suitable offer, and he can't force Bouremouth to take an interest or approach him in January. He can only respond to events as they unfold. Bournemouth come sniffing - he has to decide whether to hang around here with a club run by clowns or take a 4 year deal and much bigger salary for his family = security for the rest of his career/life.

He will be well off of course but having been at Oxford and Rovers he probably won't be set for life.

He is out of contract at the end of the season. Uncertainty. Footballers particularly with families don't want that. Now you might blame him for not signing whatever joke numbers corner shop manager Waggott has scribbled down for him, but as seen with the Bournemouth interest Rothwell has been entirely vindicated in his position because it is clear he can get better elsewhere.

That's if you believe there has been an offer on the table open for his acceptance, which I have my own doubts about given the lack of one for Mowbray. 
 

Thing is JHR - you must realise the power that agents have, especially when you consider the gulf in revenue between a team recently relegated and one not?

Bournemouth are obviously intent (on what we do, may I add) on maximising the amount they can spend within the rules - but the rules applied to us don’t include 90m over 3 years for parachute payments, not including what their owners can invest + safe losses.

I’m no mathematician or accountant but I know that is a huge advantage. Why is it so easy for you to ignore? 

You can easily assume that Rothwell wasn’t tapped up, or that his demands are reasonable.

9 minutes ago, JHRover said:

If the owners are so inert that they are happy to allow Mowbray's deal to run down with no discussions about his future then why would they take players' contracts seriously? It would suggest they are 'on the ball' with players who they have never met but aren't 'on the ball' with their manager who they have met, like, trust and have had running their club for the last 5 years.

The Club had the ability to protect its assets by attending to their contracts in a professional and coherent manner and ensuring star players were here for the forseeable, putting the club in the driving seat should any interest come along. The Club has failed to do that using every excuse in the book along the way.

Covid, revenues, uncertainty, wage structure, owners struggling in India, greedy players and agents.

But in the end it doesn't matter what the cause is of it. All that matters is the result of it. Players haven't signed and the result is that it is inevitable that some will have their heads turned by other clubs and other options. It is also inevitable that unless something changes quickly this Rothwell incident will be replicated with several other players.

I have just read Mowbray's comments in the Telegraph and have to say I am baffled.

Mowbray appears to be suggesting that he would have sold Rothwell and used the cash to buy 3 players. He appears to suggest that the only way he can rebuild the squad is by doing this as there will be no money in the summer without sales (if we don't go up). He appears to suggest the owners vetoed this plan and insisted Rothwell would remain.

If you’ve an agent and player, or 3, asking for top wage when you’re skirting rules, need to regularly sell players and had to pawn the training ground to bring the revenue up to the value that allows us to sign contracts, loan players and / or sign even frees….

Why assume it’s such a simple thing to not “allow players contracts to expire”?

Why is this a prevalent thing across football, if we’re the only teams in this position?

9 minutes ago, JHRover said:

I have numerous issues with this;

1) If the manager wants a sale why on earth are the owners acting against his wishes? 
 

This is a separate issue that’s been prevalent since they took over the club, there’s no autonomy in Ewood, it’s always rubber stamped in India.

9 minutes ago, JHRover said:

2) How does he know there is no money if we don't go up?

Who?

9 minutes ago, JHRover said:

3) We've heard this about sell and reinvest several times and it just doesn't happen - they sold Armstrong for far more in the summer with plenty of time to spend some of the money on new players and failed to do so. I have no faith they would have allowed reinvestment of the Rothwell cash.

 

4) I don't understand how or why the owners would reject millions of pounds for Rothwell when this is probably their last chance to get a fee for him, yet they are unable to offer the wage he wants to keep him here longer term. If they have the capacity to risk millions on turning down a fee for him then why don't they have the capacity to increase the wage bill to pay him?

 

Again this comes back to simply ignoring the different financial scenarios of the two clubs.

Why do you think Fulham look like they do?

45 minutes ago, magicalmortensleftpeg said:

To be fair, it’s the fact that Bournemouth are a recently relegated PL team that’s the issue not the size of the club. We’ve not been able to financially compete with clubs who have dropped down from the PL long before Mowbray came along.

You’re wasting your time MMLP

FFP is an excuse. Low turnover is an excuse. The pandemic is an excuse. Parachute payments are an excuse.

If it is any solace, I agree with your view on the inequality caused, due to financial power of relegated teams compared to other championship teams.

That’s not to say, if the owners truly wanted it, they could find a way. I’m sure we all get that. The rules are stupid though, and the last time we fell foul of them they caused untold issues, see “chapter 132, Coyle and Co”

Lumping Mowbray in as a current issue, alongside the long term damage caused by bad decisions in their initial ownership, winds me up though.

Rothwell caused this by asking to join a team we have a chance to usurp, and if his form dips - I won’t be pointing fingers at his salary as an excuse.

Anyone with foresight knows that the club and the players would benefit massively from beating them, yet he still asked the question.

Will take a lot to forget.

6 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Look at everything through the lens that Mowbray has lost his link to Mrs Desai by not going to India.

That explains everything- the cuts, lack of new contracts, minimal spending, focus on loans, uncertainty on his own future.

The only way of getting anywhere with this lot is by getting on a plane to Pune and talking them round. Can't do that then it is very difficult.

I keep on banging this drum and the more time that passes by I become more certain that this is the fundamental issue. It therefore matters not what position we are in or how urgent the need for players we are left with a buffoon in Waggott crunching the numbers unable to do very much. I expect the Giles wage contribution is covered by the savings on the 3 departures yesterday which is why it took so long to get done.

 

It doesn’t explain everything.

Take your lens and look at FFP, speak to people who understand turnover and the damage the covid pandemic has caused.

Even the most expensive assembled side in this division almost lost their best young player (carvalho) for peanuts yesterday and will likely lose him for nothing should they fail to be promoted.

https://youtu.be/Zylxybs4m3E

Got a Cross on him

All assists in a struggling team, certainly think he may make a big impact.

19 minutes ago, davulsukur said:

Absolute scenes when Blackburn Rovers are rejecting offers for their players from Barca.

Sell when we want mate.

Smells like a YouTuber trying to get hits.

Surely the BBD Barcelona stuff is BS…!

Wouldnt begrudge the lad that kind of opportunity but fucking hell…!

It’s now confirmed that he’s training with the team today.

Now, I believe that he wanted to speak to Bournemouth as TM is probably too honest for his own good at times.

I feel stupid for believing they accepted the fee and he was on the way down though?

Overall, this is another good example of why ITKs like Peter Rourke and other journalists should be taken with a pinch of salt.

Still think the guy is a bellend for wanting to speak to Bournemouth but it’s surely indicative that it was never going to be accepted, or he would’ve been on the south coast hours ago.

2 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

He did not say Rothwell did not want to be considered.

He said he made the decision to leave Rothwell at home himself as he didn't want to be sat there worrying if Rothwell’s head was in the right place.

Completely out of order from Mowbray for me, should have stayed in house. He turned a storm in a teacup into a major issue.

All that said, old news now, hopefully that's the end of it and we can move forward with Rothwell, Nyambe, Lenihan, AND 3 or4 quality additions to the squad which are badly needed.

Love the part where you completely ignore that Rothwell actively asked to speak to another club, a direct rival in the current league positions.

3 minutes ago, Herbie6590 said:

We had a whole season with no gate income…

Wasting your breath, to a few of these posters, relegation to league 1, ffp, turnover, attendance, covid and previous debt means nothing and is simply an excuse.

Can’t be Rothwells replacement because Hedges actually has a left foot!

That’s the one thing that’s stood out in the clips, he seems to have a real cracking left peg, freekicks and corners too.

1 minute ago, Sparks Rover said:

He just drifted past them and scores without thinking about it....nobody else can do that in this league.....mogadon and his shit man management 

Yea, shit man management turned a league one signing into a hot property,

Do you ever think before speaking?

7 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Yes, rather than sell to Bournemouth.

No brainer isn't it?

We lose someone for 5 months and have no funds to replace?

Id say it would take someone with “no brain” to suggest it’s an easy decision.

Tony did say he wouldn’t be going unless the replacements are agreed.

Fingers crossed there’s something in the pipeline 

1 minute ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Nonsense.

The Club don't want the player to go anywhere this month he doesn't go.

End of.

You’d stick 3m in a blender and a player in the u23s then I guess! It’s no easy scenario or solution.

The cause is Super Snake Rothwell though, and nobody else 

2 minutes ago, rigger said:

Or Mowbray thinks if we go up, he will be potted.

So he’d deliberately screw the season to save his job? Conspiracy nonsense IMO