1 minute ago, RoversClitheroe said:

Thoughts on what's happening?

Is there any need to panic? I'm panicking 

Absolutely no reason to panic

2 minutes ago, davulsukur said:

The absolute state of our football club.

If we’d signed a load of old dross or sascha petschi esq nobodies, you’d be saying the same thing.

Give JDT at least a few months for god sake. How about one or two windows?

42 minutes ago, JHRover said:

We're being played Chaddy. Don't you see it?

Bring in another bloke who is supposedly going to aid recruitment 2 weeks before the start of the season, people calm down for a few weeks expecting big things, sees them through to January with the promise of jam tomorrow from the new setup.

What matters is here and now. Beyond the ludicrous situation of appointing a head of recruitment 2 weeks before the season having waited all summer, they're just buying themselves time again.

It will be another Park - 12 month deal and brought in too late to influence the summer business - what's the point other than to appear to be doing something?

Can’t help but wince when I see ANOTHER day and ANOTHER reason(*) to have a good old bellyache.

*reason - JDT is getting another member of his own staff… no idea why that’s a problem but don’t let me interrupt the setting up of gallows.

1 minute ago, JHRover said:

Any money on a fee in the last few years?

As you mentioned, Hedges, also Markanday and Pickering in the last 12/18 months

1 minute ago, JHRover said:

Without trawling through the record books of the 'last few years' I'd put money on it that pretty much every club, including ourselves, has paid some money on at least one transfer fee in recent seasons. We did it with Hedges in January, inexplicably.

The important part of course is what the money is spent on and how it compares to other clubs and how it compares to incomings.

For example, I'm sure you are aware that in the 'last few years' we've sold David Raya and Adam Armstrong for pushing £20 million and will be forced to sell BBD hopefully for at least £10  million. Together that money comfortably wipes out whatever fees have been paid out, meaning the owners have covered their outlay on fees and instead pick up the tab on the wage bill, which they have always been ok with.

I'm pretty sure that not many Championship clubs other than Rovers have had such a net profit on trading in the last 2-3 years.

We agree here - however throwing everything into one expenses pot, I’d suggest we are nearer the top and therefore need a running transfer profit

1 minute ago, JHRover said:

You reference the £10 million + on two strikers but those signings were made 3-4 years ago before the latest round of cost cutting came along, and they've made their money back comfortably on that with AA and BBD.

I'm well aware of football finances, I'm well aware that we lose more than we bring in. I'm also aware that the same applies to 75%  of Championship clubs who don't have large crowds, parachute money and I'm also aware that in the last few windows we have been outspent by smaller clubs, who don't have billionaire owners, who haven't brought in tens of millions in fees and who haven't demolished their wage bills in the last 12 months.

Plenty of those clubs have nowhere near the same level of overheads, and when you’re talking about wages it’s only the facilities and coaches in the academy that are exempt from FFP, not your u23 / reserve or professional contract players.

1 minute ago, JHRover said:

Any guesses where we are on wages right now compared to 18 months ago?

I’d say we’d probably dropped a huge chunk but I would’ve guessed the loans of Poveda, Khadra and Van Hecke (as more expensive premier league wages) would’ve been the equivalent of cutting out the Bennett’s, Mulgrews and Evans.

1 minute ago, JHRover said:

In my view the training ground stunt was just another desperate move by a Club ill equipped to manage the situation. Meanwhile we see rival clubs managing their finances, investing whilst offering cheaper tickets and not having to sell off infrastructure.

We had a transfer registration embargo. The rules should’ve changed in regard to covid, remember clubs work on yearly budgets and the finances come a year after, the black hole of no crowd money caused serious issues for a lot of clubs (hence huge amounts of players available on frees this summer)

1 minute ago, JHRover said:

You mention we were forced to sell the training ground to avoid a 'registration ban' - would we be any worse off now if we hadn't sold the training ground and had been put under a ban? We would still have been able to bring in loans and cheap signings just like we did when Bowyer was working under an embargo.

Yea but not 20k a week loans of premier league level centre backs. Player of the season last year? 

1 minute ago, JHRover said:

We might disagree on most of the above but surely we can agree that whatever the situation we are poor at managing the situation, as evidenced by the latest contract fiasco which if avoided could have meant a £10 million difference to the Club finances?

I agree and I am frustrated but I acknowledge that it’s impossible to force players to stay.

Could we move the budget and convince them through money? 
 

That’s one of the things that makes managing a football club difficult. Knowing exactly which basket to move your eggs.

1 minute ago, MarkBRFC said:

Not like you to go on super club defensive mode Jbiz.

It’s called reality mode. Prefer it to “let’s ignore the facts for weird conspiracy speculation” mode that you’ve taken up this morning.

Fact you instantly went to an insult shows exactly how flimsy your arguments are.

24 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Shouldn't even be entertaining letting anyone go at this point until we have new people in the building or signed and secured to come in.

Selling players now or getting them off the wage bill is just another "jam tomorrow" stunt - cost cutting dressed up and justified under the false pretence of the money being reinvested when it never is.

 

I imagine there are a lot, I mean loads… of fans of other clubs, who would read this about Blackburn Rovers and think “wtf are you talking about”…

How many clubs in this league have actually spent any money on a fee in the last few years? Let alone 10+ million on two strikers?

54 minutes ago, MarkBRFC said:

Also i just don't understand the clamor to sell Diaz so we can spend the money on "2 or 3 players"

At any other normal club i would completely agree that would be the way to go, but that has never happened under venkys ownership, and certainly won't happen if he was to be sold. That money would just go into the venkys black hole. To be honest we would be better off keeping him with the squad as it is.

Venkys aren't bothered that he would walk away for nothing, they will just fund the difference themselves anyway.

Re the part in bold, why is it so hard to understand that the club constantly loses money because of low turnover? 
Whilst JHR might believe FFP is a made up excuse, and that covid didn’t really cause any issues - in my opinion, this “venky” black hole idea is just another conspiracy from people who simply don’t even remotely understand football finance.

1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

Aye probably.

Though it does makes me laugh how it’s being justified because it’s a new manager/new structure/new tea lady, when its been no different to most other recent seasons, I.e the bulk of signings, largely loanees, arriving as the season gets underway…

Yes because… we aren’t at the front of any queue because of MONEY!

12 months ago we had to offload the training ground to get out of a transfer registration ban… am I the only one who remembers these things?

15 minutes ago, Admiral Nelsen said:

 

Not sure of this is meant to be a joke or not, but they're literally only signing frees and cheap loans who nobody else wants on account of them being under a FFP induced transfer ban. 

I don't think you could pick a better example of what could go wrong if you try and cheat FFP and fail

 

.

 

He's had a good career, but he's not scored more than 10 league goals in a season for more than 10 years. He's not scored 15 in the last 6 years combined!

I think people should realise how stupid they sound, pining for a 35 year old striker on a free when there’s 7 weeks of a window still open. 
 

It’s a strange desperation to come every single day to lament our lack of activity, but then also criticise a potential rumour including a decent championship defender, as a waste / another loan.

What did people expect with a new manager? Time has to be afforded, and those suggesting that the new people have been lied too about funds, surely you need more than a month to come up with that assumption? 
 

How about we kick a few balls first?

3 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Right, and they were thrown in together without ever playing a single minute and asked to run a first team, Championship level midfield between them?

Or were they slowly blooded alongside experienced pros over a number of years?

The argument is they’re good enough as back ups and that will give them opportunity to improve, not about them being “thrown in”

If we get others in they go on loan, it’s been the same setup for ages.

15 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

Yes, I have to wonder what he's been doing with them the last month.  No pattern, I was expecting the Gagan, no sign.  Dack will be fine in this pedestrian team

Olympic level jumping to conclusions based on the first 60 minutes of JDTs career.

9 minutes ago, OldEwoodBlue said:

Absolute fucking joke.

6 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

Spot on 👏

JDT Out

Ladies and gentlemen, 3 weeks and 3 days

3 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

Our accounts show we can't spend more on our first team than we are.

Now you’ve gone and done it.

27 minutes ago, Mercer said:

I think our club is fecked......end of.

Optimism after appointment of JDT all but evaporated.

A long walk needed tonight followed by a few drinks.

19 minutes ago, roverandout said:

I can see this being another lambert. Walking out after realising these penny pinching shysters have no ambition.  We will never compete with venkys running (ruining) the club

I asked myself, “what have I missed?” for this to be the mood.

Then I read a page or two back that suggest we’ve lost out on a player due to a team with parachute payments paying more wages, I shrugged my shoulders and logged out.

31 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Come off it, there won't be many Championship defenders on 50k p.w. , if any.

https://capology.com/uk/championship/salaries/
 

Compare our estimates to the top salaries then delete your post 😂 

5 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Tosin is a poor example he was recruited by City the richest team in the UK and on a reputed 30 grand a week anyway.

We also paid a million pound loan fee for him.

We are talking about graduates from our academy where the starting point wage is between 5 and 7 grand per week allegedly.

What do you think agents are saying to players when top championship defenders are on 50k?

The system we have is restrictive but that’s down to the 12 year malaise.

One of the best centrebacks we’ve had since league one is Tosin.

He is now on 50kpw and was promoted this year with Fulham.

Thats the equivalent of our 3 top earners combined.

If you understand wage discrepancy and the advantage of parachute payments, you understand the issue.

Throw in city teams with higher turnover, more hands on owners - they’d gladly give someone an extra 10k a week over 3 years if they aren’t paying a transfer fee.

It’s almost as if many discussing these issues think BRFC is the only team in the country.

On 24/06/2022 at 18:43, roversfan99 said:

Will you not be singing about what a greedy bastard he is too?

Hmmm

Which is worse?

A. Joining in with an away crowd singing a “tongue in cheek” song about a player leaving the club

B. regularly posting about how players “should be sold” because “they’re obviously not good enough”

Answers on a post card.

Gutted but also slightly peeved at his reluctance to commit to the club.

Its hard not to see these things without “Lancashire Rose tinted glasses” but still the only person who makes the decision to stay and play is Ryan.

Good luck but I hope you play shit against the blues.

Surely in 2022 “letting these 3 leave” isn’t a sentence that’s compatible with reality? 

5 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

The only rumblings I've heard about what they offered is that it was a bit more, but not tons. 2.5x what we offered is extremely unlikely. At a guess, we were offering him at least 12k p/w at the absolute bare minimum (we're bloody idiots if we weren't). I highly doubt Boro offered 30k p/w for a CB in this league when they were already pretty well stocked there.

28 year old Centreback with tonnes of experience and no fee? 
 

Much easier conversation with the chairman regarding wages and signing on fee.

Oh and remember their chairman actually lives near the fecking club.

We’ve had the benefit of seeing him in the flesh though, and can anyone really dispute that the best two centrebacks we’ve seen in the last 5 years for us are Tosin and JPVH?

1 minute ago, Mattyblue said:

‘Pure dog?’ No idea what that means, but do I want tickets to be more reasonably priced? Note, reasonably, not given away, as you keep trying to put words In my mouth over - yes I do,

Very tenuous to try and link my view on that with you admitting you behave like a 12 year old at matches.

 

 

 

I’ll remember to mention to the thousands chanting such things that Matty from BRFCS thinks they’re childish.

“Pure dog” btw is an obvious colloquialism by the way, its not like I’m asking for top grade cannabis is it?

3 minutes ago, JHRover said:

And that makes us different to Middlesbrough how?

1. Ownership

2. Turnover 

3. Debt

4. A free signing moving clubs generally attracts a big signing on fee. 

7 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

 

That makes him a ‘greedy bastard’ who deserves to be chanted at? How sad.
 

Hilarious how you’d pure dog the club for trying to raise revenue but then defend someone who will be set for life because of the opportunities we gave them. 
 

Who walked away for nothing.

Just now, JHRover said:

And what money issues do we have that stops us paying these lads similar to Middlesbrough? Did I imagine the slashed wage bill last summer and Armstrong cash?

No but you forgot the constant haemorrhage of money for 12 years, the lack of a decent ownership and the deficit closing the stadium for 12 months created.

10 minutes ago, RTM08 said:

.

It's absolutely criminal that we let the contracts run down and to be honest they should have been sold 12 months ago when it was clear they wouldn't sign. 

I don’t think we would’ve described selling those three for a cut price last summer as “good business”

Especially in the league we are in, the difference between success and failure is the kind of money that would’ve made those three irrelevant to the “journey” so it’s understandable that they kept hold.

Equally “allowing their contracts to run down” is the type of sentence that just winds me up.

They either sign or they don’t. You cannot force players too, and despite the likes of JHR suggesting our money issues / limitations are imaginary, it’s not a surprise to me that these three would rather take the contracts with the most money.

Thats despite being given a chance here. Rothwell perhaps less, but Nyambe and Lenihan both owe their entire careers to our academy.

I will be singing “there’s only one greedy bastard” anyway.

20 minutes ago, JHRover said:

You're probably right on this point. There is more to it than just offering a lower price and assuming thousands more decide to buy.

The attitude at Rovers seems to be that people will come and get one if they want one. Next to no proactivity. Printing off a price list and posting it out to all existing season ticket holders is really schoolboy stuff.

Preston have sold their highest amount in 50 years, this during an economic mess, off the back of a pandemic and following a mediocre season where they floated around the bottom half. Yet they've come up with pricing that people like, have made a managerial appointment people like and have promoted it properly - I've heard of people out in Garstang and Clitheroe putting flyers through doors advertising tickets.

Have Rovers done similar? No they haven't.

For the second time in 5 years we've been sat in a glorious position in February with a promotion push to look forward to in the run in. People respond to these sort of things. Yet on neither of those occasions have we so much as announced season ticket prices until after the end of the season. That is madness. 

The one thing drifting support will respond to more than anything is a promotion push and winning games, we've had that in the palms of our hands and done nothing to capitalise on it.

Season tickets should have been on sale and pushed relentlessly to the 5000+ matchday buyers turning up at Ewood in the second half of last season. Get them signed up whilst the going is good and the feeling is positive. Give them 20% early bird discount to buy before the end of April (or something along those lines) to give them a genuine reason to get in there quickly and hand over their money.

 

You know JHR - for all the falling out and arguing it’s clear you’re an exceptionally astute mind - we both know that the scenario were in is a knock on effect of our ownership.

I genuinely think the only are we’re disagreeing on this is commercial advertising as opposed to price.

Whilst i stand by the notion that preston are on the crest of a wave - their expectation is minimal, I agree that there is too much of a disparity between our sales and theirs.

That difference comes down to expectation for me. 
 

Imagine a supporting a team that hadn’t been top tier for donkeys? Even a moderate step towards progress is easy to sell.

8th position for a team that’s suffered a manufactured decline? How do you convince thousands of people to look past that?

Whilst I’m not on for oversimplification; Price isn’t the answer. Results are more important.