@Herbie6590good point - as trousering could be just another word for putting proceeds in clubs pockets so no outside investment is necessary. In the past it’s been used in conspiracy here as dodgy or illicit payments out of the club.

Combine that with quotes from GB and JDT “sustainable premier league club” and past ones about Brentford (no owner investment) and what @K-Hod says perfect sense.

For me that’s the correct way to go, but it just shows how broken football is when we need to sell a player every season to even support a modest (for level and expectation) wage bill.

15 minutes ago, 47er said:

Ah you're back! Is it time to panic yet?

You do you.

6 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

If we sold BBD and reinvested the money into the squad with players we already have lined up, it wouldn’t be ideal, but I’ve expected him to be on his way for a while, really. 
Just to be clear- I have absolutely no confidence in our hierarchy to do this though. The Armstrong money went unspent and I think the BBD cash will go the same way. Saying it went unspent is easier to pacify fans, but I think we all know it will be getting trousered.

Trousering? Aka taking money out of the business?

Why on earth would they be putting 8/10m a season in via share capital then?

2 hours ago, JHRover said:

The vast majority of the debt is to the owners. It is interest free with no date for repayment. It will only ever be paid back if they decide they want to try and claim it, which isn't going to happen.

It has absolutely no bearing on our ability to sign players right now.

Low turnover - admittedly a big problem - but one which the Club and owners have done next to nothing to address for going on 10 years. The reciept of £15 million from AA and soon to be £15 million for BBD in the space of 12 months comfortably outweighs any hindrance we have from lower income and turnover than rivals.

I didn't say it was easy to identify these players. But the club is employing 'experts' on huge salaries to run this. So the self-pity its ever so hard line I don't buy. We can offer much more or at least should be able to offer much more than dross like Blackpool, Luton, PNE, Wigan, Millwall and the like yet it appears not. The alternative to not getting the 'right' player is not to sign nobody at all.

I see you are a 'jam tomorrow' member - so now we can't judge the summer window because it is too early for the new super structure to be measured on? Carry on at this rate JDT will walk - he's obviously getting fed up - and then we can start from scratch again next summer and it will be too early then to form opinions.

Speaking of half baked conspiracies - what would it take for you to believe the simple yet seemingly unpalatable possibility that our problems are simply a result of disinterested owners who have turned the money taps down to such a trickle we can barely operate at this level?

Instead it seems preferable to believe in every other possibility going - club reputation, FFP, turnover, debt, too early for Broughton, poor us

On the debt initially - what is it? 250m+? Is that about 20m a season “invested?”One of the reasons why I’d always consider that aspect in our financial management, is the prospect of “life after Venkys” - in basic terms, the lower this amount, the better, where a sale is concerned. We all want that, surely?

In terms of PNE / Blackpool / Millwall comparison - have they made any business you think we should’ve been all over? Also those teams all have lower expectations and probably different lists where transfers are concerned.

Whereas it’s conceivable we’re trying to find the options available lower premier league, higher wages etc - and it’s also conceivable those sort of talents are on others lists; Anel.

I acknowledge and share the frustration of playing this waiting game, but I’d hold the system accountable more than competence at this point, especially where GB and JDT are concerned. The idea of having a window closing after 8 games is ludicrous for a start, the gap between wages and sponsorship between 20th and 21st in the football pyramid is a another big issue.

On the “Jam tomorrow” thing - surely there is some middle ground? I know “give x amount of windows” is almost a cliche round here now, but time has to be given.

Finally on the conspiracy stuff; I agree already on the disinterested owners but in terms of the money aspect, their spend is there to see. It’s been mishandled, their making, a vacuum between club and final decision maker, but it’s never been a trickle.

If you’re suggesting we forget about rules / regulations and spend whatever we want, sponsor whatever, basically force their way round the system - that would be nice, but competition (due to that premier league sponsorship) is so fierce, we could end up like many of the big city clubs (Derby and Sheff Wed as we speak) who’ve fallen foul to the point they can’t even offer players contracts.

I know Mowbray drove everyone mental with his “Journey” bollox, but there’s definitely something in his descriptions of slowly building up players to sell, to enable us to actually spend (wages and Fees) without the possibility of sanction.

Couple of tweets from Nixon. Price is about BBD.

16 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Can you elaborate on this point, and explain to me how with a scaled back wage bill, squad consisting predominantly of kids and academy players, with a recent major sale of a prized asset and it seems likely another one to follow, that our 'specific financial state' and 'current reputation' means we are incapable of signing any players to fill massive gaps in the squad?

Financial scenario is high debt, low turnover and difficult margins with FFP constraints (see last summers registration embargo and ultimately having to sell training ground). Secondly -  competition for players capable of being top “champ” level is fierce, and there’s a list of teams who can offer more based on these financial issues.
 

Anel for example. People can say “well go get someone else”, but it has to be the right one. As we’ve seen with Ayala - risk, big wage, and has been injured far too often to justify. It’s not easy.

Another reason for the difficulty is Reputationally we’re not a favourite for promotion or play offs, despite position early season or last year (your momentum analogy was embarrassing imo) and thus players of that ilk and ability, would probably choose one of those (not forgetting wage packet) as it’s a quicker and more likely route to 50k a week.

Yes, we’d have no problem plucking players from lower champ and league one - but for finding players who will truly make the difference at this level, isn’t easy.

Importantly - I must add; The owners could have a far far better system in place, in fact they even acknowledged that by changing it up this summer. It’s important to say this as I’m often painted as someone who doesn’t have any complaints. That’s absolutely not true.

In terms of this new setup though? Surely one window? Or maybe even 1 season is time to see what transpires?

Rather than jump for the “broughton is a dud” ( @SuperBrfc) or one of your half baked conspiracies?

7 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Age old transfer strategy.

Do very little until the last day or two hoping that the PL boys agree to send a few loans here at low cost to Rovers or potential permanent signings/selling clubs drop their demands at the last minute and we can land a bargain.

Sounds clever but it isn't.

I simply cannot comprehend why you will not acknowledge one single difficulty with transfers from our specific financial state and current reputation.

I’ve tried to fathom it, but it just doesn’t make any sense. I can acknowledge that we’ve hardly got the very best for the job but you won’t budge a single inch, and paint every issue as an excuse.

@J*B can we have a links only thread for the last week, I cannot wade through anymore of this.

7 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

Yeah, but whatever you may think about someone’s opinion, they’re still entitled to it though.

I’ll remember that next time I’m sent to the stands 😂 

1 minute ago, 47er said:

Jal hasn't posted for yonks. Who'd blame him?

Just reminded me of him, the “Buckley’s rubbish and if you think differently you’re lying to yourself”.

1 minute ago, BigBar said:

Are you ok? Patronising?

Suggesting anyone who sees redeeming quality, ability etc - is “telling yourself something you want to be true”?

Not what I’d call persuasive.

1 minute ago, BigBar said:

 

Answered the question. I based it on watching him and despite wanting him to be what I thought he could be or shows glimpses of it simply wasn't the case. My patience wore thin. It's easy when you have a player from the academy to let off the hook or makes excuses for or whatever.

The list I gave of what I felt he was guilty of last year I'd say is very fair and accurate. If you dislike it or disagree, counter argue it.

The list you made was only things you didn’t like. I assume you’ve seen the goal against Birmingham? Or the countless through balls, creative switches of play? Or the ability to nick the ball regularly by judging a pass?

Theres loads of positive to add to the areas he needs development in.

The idea that he’s been given a free ride because we “want him” to do well is just snidey, patronising and “Jalesque”

1 minute ago, BigBar said:

Do you think you saying you'll put me in the "Jal section" would bother me? You engaged with me. 

This section is reserved for people I think post purely for a reaction. From this perspective, you got what you asked for.

2 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

*Sigh*
 

I am justifying people being entitled to their opinion, however ridiculous others may deem said opinion to be. Posters should then feel free to rip it to shreds. Not simply post banal ‘ just get behind ‘em ffs’, ‘sooo negative’ stuff.

There is a difference between a poorly thought out opinion and listing only the negative, bad aspects about someone and then suggest everyone else is lying to themselves to feel better.

Purposely incendiary - there’s many posters who get a kick from that shit here, MB. You know that surely?

6 minutes ago, BigBar said:

My eyes and ability to not just tell myself something I want to be true

Not a big fan of breaking posts up Chaddy style but I thought this deserved its own reply.

Do you think being so patronising helps your argument?

6 minutes ago, BigBar said:

. Not enough assists, not enough goals, went missing so often, missed multiple one on ones, dilly dallied in possession countless times. You disagree?

That’s a fantastic list of all the things he and many other footballers do wrong at times.

There’s no point in me listing good things about his game, because despite @Mattyblue’s attempt to justify slagging players off without any actual balance, you’ve already come to a ridiculous conclusion.

Ill just put you into the “JAL” section of “posters I’ll try never to read or reply too again”.

Good day sir.

23 minutes ago, BigBar said:

Oh no they are doing the weird thing of erasing how bad Buckley was last season overall and trying to convince others to drink the kool-aid. Another season of hearing how good poor performances are and how stunning decent performances are. All to save face. Yawn. 

What do you base this on?

4 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

By your reckoning Brentford would never have bought Ivan Toney...very similar numbers not at championship level and he went on to be a very good signing...but you'd have stuck with Gally instead of Toney by your reckoning....

I know who is better by just watching them.  Gally will be lucky to get a game this season, a total donkey as you could see on Saturday.   Not for me.

Re the part in bold - when your record is bad, don’t be surprised to be picked up on ideas / suggestions, because the general feeling here is that you couldn’t pick your nose, never mind a good player out.

4 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

2 full backs were poor.

yet took a clean sheet

4 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

Hedges had a nightmare.

yet worked hard and created an opportunity for our goal

4 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

Bucko and Travis steady

Defence not tested.

QPR to find themselves near the bottom

It’s as if you only find the bad stuff!

2 minutes ago, Hi Mack said:

I’ve got to agree, he came in talking the talk and been absolutely terrible. You simply cannot lose 6/7 first teamers and not replace them before the season starts.
 

We’ve started the season without completing most of our business many times in the last decade, and I’m not sure how you can blame Broughton for people leaving before he even arrived.

18 minutes ago, SuperBrfc said:

With each day that passes, it's becoming more and more apparent that Broughton is a dud. Overwhelmed and unable to deliver.

If the best he can come up with is blowing £2.5m on some L1 no hoper and a loan for Tyler Morton, he needs to start packing his bags now.

Peterborough fans can't believe their luck and want to take the money and run. That should say something.

Yesterday was Carter is a donkey based on a friendly and today is the DOF who’s been in the building 6 weeks, again not an easy mindset to understand.

1 minute ago, arbitro said:

I'm the same but my gas, electricity and fuel are essential to live comfortably and for some it's a stark reality of justifying a season ticket in the current financial climate.  And therefore the huge increases we are seeing in them is likely to prevent some casual supporters from buying them. Of course reducing prices of season tickets would have been a gamble but a calculated one in my opinion. I know some posters don't like the Nobbers comparison but that really is the yardstick for me.

In danger of going off thread here but I believe it’s easier to sell season tickets to supporters when you’re in the second tier, if you haven’t been in the top one since 1961.

Our club is built for top tier income - the majority of the people we all know who’ve given up, went when the club played Man United, Liverpool and Arsenal at home every season.

Not looking up at the likes of Fulham and Bournemouth.

1 minute ago, K-Hod said:

Cheaper tickets in the middle of a cost of living crisis and a poor area wouldn’t hurt, would it? Bigger picture is that means more bums on seats, more money spent on the concourse, therefore, more revenue. It’s a poor do when PNE and Bolton are selling far more season tickets than us in comparable areas. Made even worse by Bolton being in a division below!

As discussed in the ST thread - the only bill in my household that hasn’t risen this season is my season ticket.

Im no accountant, I know both those clubs have nowhere near the infrastructure costs we do, and I (in terms of sales) know it would’ve been a different story had we finished the season better.

47ers point was “we’re badly run” and “Cheaper tickets” is something I bet most people at every club would agree on, but would it solve these transfer and contract woes? 
 

Someone suggested we get someone for 50k a year instead of Waggott (250k a year) and put it to the wage bill. I’m sure that 2k per week after tax would be the difference between 8th and 6th…!

1 minute ago, 47er said:

And they have one thing in common----they play or played for us. Who else runs things this badly?

Has any other Championship club only made one signing at this stage---ie the day before the season opens?

Why are we so badly run?

The response is in the parts of the post you didn’t include to reply.

Everyone has their own circumstances, the competition for players with the necessary ability to challenge is fierce and we’re miles behind other clubs with wages.

Rather than simply grumble, what suggestions do you have to enable the club to work better? Sweeping “Get rid of wag/Venkys/Mowbray” not enough, how does a club of our current position maximise turnover, avoid ffp sanction and ensure success on the pitch and in recruitment?

6 minutes ago, JHRover said:

 

Deliberate sabotage couldn't have turned things around so quickly as this.

It felt this grim last year, registration embargo and top scorer most likely leaving.

Season before it was “shit or bust”

You know as well as I do, that results matter more than any of this, however I don’t know where “transition” suggests mediocracy.

Also, we haven’t lost most. Some perhaps, but not most. Semantics mean a lot - also for the same token, those players we lost take some responsibility for our poor form since Christmas.

As mentioned repeatedly- the last time we’d signed 4+ players before kick off was under Coyle.

Lets see how we get on Saturday before bringing the “deliberate negligence” back into debate…

3 hours ago, DavidMailsTightPerm said:

I think the market will open up more when the Premiership teams settle on their squads for next season - having a ripple effect throughout the EFL.

When you look at our current first team, it isn't too different to last year - we are just very exposed to any injuries. 

Not just aimed at just you DMTP, but the part in bold shows you understand our situation aka ambition > finance, you understand the fierceness of competition between championship teams for players, and the plethora of options on bigger wages, who are waiting to see whether they get game time or if they’ll be down the pecking order at their club…

Not naming names, but why is it that posters who get this, are less panicky? Less demanding, for explanations or for people to “fess up”?

I think everyone here wants us to have the cliched “two decent players for every position” ready for Saturday, but I don’t think everyone understands the difficulty in attaining such.

3 minutes ago, SuperBrfc said:

It doesn't need a Jota type to make a mug out of him. Most Championship wingers will have him on toast at right back, in my opinion.

He can be played around one with quick one twos, as Lincoln did a couple of times on Saturday.

I think we're seriously overrating some of these players we have.

You’ve using a friendly writing off players. That’s when I stop taking you seriously.