Tris

Could even be a half decent crowd in the away end considering the early start ... Ticket Office just said they've sold about 700 out of the initial 1012 allocation.

Your self imposed ban didn't last very long did it ?! We'll be in the Eight Bells before the game, and if you come and introduce yourself I'll buy you a pint of Guinness.

This is desperately sad and unfair on Blackburn Rovers. We have a good reputation for the behaviour of our fans, but this is now tarnished forever because of one ###### up fool and a media machine desperately short of other things to discuss. A couple of seasons ago when Rovers played at St Andrews, a significant part of the Birmingham crowd taunted Dwight Yorke with some of the most unpleasant chanting I have ever heard at a football match. It wasn't racist, but in my opinion if anything it was worse, as it referred specifically to his blind child. Something along the lines of "Your son will never see you" - not one or two fans, it was a proper chant. As the media takes us to bits because of the actions of ONE individual I can't help thinking that we are very, very unfortunate that our reputation has been tarnished like this. And with the pending police investigations and maybe even a trial to follow, this isn't just going to drop off the agenda. It's going to keep coming back into the limelight and will thus ensure that the entire nation puts Blackburn Rovers fans and racism in the same box. It's a very unfortunate set of circumstances, and I for one feel totally gutted about it.

As Rovers begin preparations for the trip to London for Saturday’s early kick off against Fulham, the club is in the headlines for all the wrong reasons. The media appear to be keen to milk the Yorke incident for all they can, the FA have charged Steven Reid for an elbow into Gronkjaer’s ribs … and meanwhile the club sits rock bottom of the Premiership table with a third of the season gone. And all this came along before the bad taste in the mouth caused by the way Tony Parkes left the club the previous week had been given time to be washed away. So it’s tempting to turn back the clock and bask in some memorable (and less memorable) occasions from the recent past when the two clubs have come head to head. Cast your minds back to March 2000. To be precise, Sunday 12th March. Rovers played Crewe at Ewood Park in one of the most bizarre games I have ever seen. Despite managing to threaten the Crewe goal on average once every 120 seconds, the vital statistics at the end read Rovers 0 – Crewe 1. 43 attempts, but no goals. Something had to change, and 6 days later Rovers travelled to Craven Cottage with a new manager in charge. The Souness era began with a 2-2 draw, the goals – both equalisers – scored by David Dunn and a peach from Keith Gillespie. A couple of quotes from the LET (20.03.00) to bring back those memories … The following season (2000-2001) would see Fulham and Rovers take the two automatic promotion spots from Division 1 back to the Premiership. In October at Craven Cottage, a rampant Fulham ran rings round Rovers and won the game 2-1 even though Matt Jansen had scored early on to give Rovers the lead. The return fixture at Ewood on a Wednesday night in mid-April it was a clash of the top two teams, screened live on ITV Digital. Rovers were protecting an unbeaten home record stretching back 5 months, but Louis Saha and Sean Davis put an end to that, despite Matt Jansen’s 20th goal of the season. People may be shocked, but Souness had a ready made line for the press conference after the game …. Back in the big league in the 2001-02 season, the two sides didn’t meet until February. Rovers were two weeks away from a memorable visit to Cardiff, but the trip to the cottage was memorable for all the wrong reasons. Fulham took the points in a 2-0 win despite Rovers hitting the woodwork twice early on. It was cold, it was damp and it was dismal. Andy Cole gave one of the most pathetic performances I’ve ever seen from a professional footballer, and to cap it all Short was sent off and Tugay picked up the booking which would prevent him from playing in Cardiff. The Souness verdict was a new one though …. The return fixture was the last game of the season and the contrast could not have been greater. Rovers had won the cup, Rovers were safe from relegation, the sun was out and with cheap tickets on offer 30,487 packed a joyous Ewood Park. Mark Hughes came off the bench with 15 minutes remaining for a rousing farewell, which no-one guessed at the time was merely an “au revoir”. Fulham gave one of the all time crap performances of any Premier League team ever. A goal from Duff and a brace for Andy Cole which took him to 13 in 20 games had the manager purring after the game. Six months later and a lot had changed. Matt Jansen had suffered that terrible injury. Duffer had played his socks off in the Far East and Rovers had spent the rest of the summer fighting off interest from Liverpool and Man United. Dwight Yorke had arrived, and in this game he took a pass from Duff to score his first Blackburn goal at Ewood park. He caused the winner as well as his header forced Van der Sar into an excellent save but the ball hit Rufus Brevett and ended up in the goal. Friedel was the real hero that day however, 13 days after a minor knee operation he took his place between the sticks to produce a stunning performance. LET : The next fixture was a Monday night game at Loftus Road in April last year. It attracted the lowest Premier League crowd of the entire season (14,017) but those who were at QPR’s borrowed ground that night saw the Hakan Sukur show. Sadly never to be repeated, but his two classy strikes that night will live long in the memory of the Rovers fans who were behind the goal in the School End. Duff and Dunn were also on the scoresheet in a 4-0 thrashing of the home team. And Souness just never lets you down with his fantastic range of pre-fabricated post match analysis – The Daily Telegraph match report summed up the game in one paragraph : Rovers next faced Fulham on 28th September last year, immediately after the midweek UEFA game away in Ankara. The three players who had scored the goals in April had all left the club, and how they were missed as Fulham left Ewood with all three points thanks to Louis Saha and Luis Boa Morte. And so to the last meeting between these two teams, April’s rollercoaster epic at Loftus Road. Another memorable night in the School End and for the Sky viewers. At half time, nobody I spoke to in a shattered Rovers following could see anything other than a certain, looming relegation. Cole had given us the lead on 21 minutes, latching on to the “pass of the season” from Tugay, but Collins John had struck twice to send us in at the break 2-1 behind. The writing was truly on the wall – the home defeat to Leeds two days before had seemed bad, but half time at Loftus Road was definitely worse – a real low point and that empty feeling of helplessness. 45 minutes later and this stupid game called football had caught us all out again. It remains one of the sweetest 45 minutes following the Rovers, as Douglas drew us level with a well taken volley, and Amoruso hammered in a free kick from 30 yards to put Rovers 3-2 up. Luis Boa Morte levelled things up but a sweet Jonathan Stead goal brought a result which was a vital, glorious, memorable turning point in an otherwise unfortunate season. So this weekend it’s back to Craven Cottage. Given the last two seasons at Loftus Road I can’t help wishing Fulham were still playing there (oh, and I live 15 mins walk away). But a new Putney End awaits, sadly minus the terraces and the scenic view over the River Thames. Looking at the history of this fixture, it could go either way. Andy Cole will surely be keen to prove a point even though Souness has gone. At the same time, I have a feeling deep in my bones that Rovers are going to turn this sequence of draws into wins sooner rather than later. Let’s hope that starts on Saturday, and that the early kick off means no-one is p!ssed enough to ignite a race row. I don’t generally do predictions, but I guess this week I have to. Fulham 0 Rovers 3 … COME ON YOU BLUES !!

Really ? I should think the editor has been sacked by now then. Really ? So victory away to poxy Palace makes him a wonderful manager ? I'd have thought that in the medium term the headline was spot-on. The Newcastle press are like the Scots: supporters with typewriters. They won't suffer a fool like Souness for long. I was referring to the grammar rather than the content Jim

Really ? I should think the editor has been sacked by now then. I feel almost reluctant to back up SG194s point because so many people have me down as a Souness supporter and therefore my opinions are devalued. But the people who are constantly slagging off Souness are nothing short of pathetic. Now he's deserted Rovers for what he perceives to be a bigger club, I could not wish more ill on the man. I hope Newcastle fleurk up on all fronts. But to devalue the Souness years at Rovers is ridiculous. The Cup win in Cardiff will probably remain - on paper - his major achievement at the club. I think that promotion was more important, and the way Rovers approached and executed the two games against Burnley showed that the man at the helm was totally in touch with those immensely pressured situations. fleurk Newcastle. And fleurk Souness now he's there. The irony of the headline posted by MrsJansen is that Souness took us to a trophy, so is just not the best line of attack if you want to diss Souness.

I think your last post is much more reasonable than what you put forward earlier. And in this context it's a good moment to drag a couple of paragraphs out of the Observer articles you've referred to, for the benefit of those who are slating Sky for all the ills in the game (hello Paul ) France has had every top level league game available live on multichannel TV for several years now. However the French league went that way because attendances at grounds have always been rubbish, and making every game available was a way of increasing revenue rather than threatening it. I was living in France at the start of that TV contract. I flew back regularly to see the Rovers in Division 1 ... and for the cost of each trip back I could have paid for a season ticket at Nancy, my local team in France, who were in the top division at the time. Back to the main issue - TV. No-one has to subscribe to Sky, and no-one has to watch football on TV. Clearly enough people do both to make this debate somewhat irrelevant. Because when push comes to shove, financially it would be better for Rovers to play in the Premier League in front of 10 fans at Ewood than in the lower division in front of 10,000.

You're so kind, however I've read them all already. I can't believe you can only refer to the Observer to defend your erroneous point of view. That paper has been anti-Sky and anti-Murdoch since the year dot. Opinionated articles from a biased source do nothing to back up your stance. As you think the figures quoted above, for attendance across the 4 leagues aren't valid in this discussion, then let's take the PL on its own. 1994/5 24,294 1995/6 27,570 1996/7 28,463 1997/8 29,141 1998/9 30,586 1999/0 30,757 2000/1 32,906 2001/2 34,450 2002/3 35,462 2003/4 35,020 Those figures have blossomed despite early and late Sunday kick offs, Monday night football and with each new contract, more Sky games. This season, the average figure so far (according to ESPN) stands at 33,609. The logical way to explain that fall is : OUT Leeds 32,622 IN WBA 25,638 OUT Wolves 30,983 IN Palace 23,914 OUT Leicester 28,874 IN Norwich 23,819 However, you're clearly not doing logic, so I'd suggest that cost of tickets is why crowds have fallen, and games on TV have **** all to do with it.

English Football League attendances - link Waggy, as MB says this wasn't really about how many games are on and whether or not TV viewers choose to watch them. However I would just point to two things which suggest there is plenty of demand for live football. Sky - despite having the right to show 138 PL games and goodness knows how many CocaCola League games ... they still chose to do a deal with the Conference to show 15 games from the 5th level of the pyramid this season. And despite the saturation coverage of the Champions League on Tues and Weds night, Channel 5 and ITV2 are still scrapping for Thursday night viewers by going head to head with Boro and Newcastle UEFA cup games. So although Waggy you may be happier to be watching jack frost and some dodgy egg chasing, but it seems many people just can't get enough of the beautiful game on the box. I guess Rovers fans will be quicker than most to blame TV for crowd decline, because our crowds have been worst hit.

No - the amount of football shown live on TV is not adversely affecting attendances. Happy ? Over the last ten years, the number of live TV games on all channels and in all competitions has grown and grown. As there have been more and more games live on TV, the number of fans going to games has risen and risen, which makes a total hash of your misguided theory. Total average attendance (Prem, Div1, Div2 and Div3) has gone like this : 1994/5 44,071 1995/6 48,104 1996/7 50,095 1997/8 53,889 1998/9 55,574 1999/0 55,532 2000/1 57,496 2001/2 61,290 2002/3 62,402 2003/4 63,809 Now if - based on one third of the current season - you want to start pontificating that the addition of ONE live PL game per week since this season started has caused that figure of 63,809 to disintegrate, then not only are you "wrong" - you're just plain stupid A.) because it hasn't disintegrated. and B.) beacuse a 10 year trend backed up by hard facts and figures is far more reliable than a few saddos having a dig at tosser Murdoch after 10 weeks of one season.

what has he done wrong exactly ??

Are you denying that crowds have been adversly affected by the amount of football on TV? If you are then you're wrong. You seem to have a very one dimensional repertoire when it comes to having a discussion about anything. Like Manchester Blue in another thread, obviously I'm just "wrong" ... even though there is barely a link between what I posted and your "in yer face" reply. Maybe - just maybe - there are other factors which influence attendance figures which are far more influential than having 138 live Premier League games on TV (this season) instead of 106 (last 3 seasons).

The bottom line is that TV viewers dictate what the broadcasters and the pubs and bars show. Despite the fact that Sky can show more live games than ever before, sports bars all over the country want to screen matches from NC+, AJ2 and the rest.

ahem i think the idea for a run off vote was suggested a couple of days ago rather spookily, by two people at the same time see these posts from bob fleming and myself seems it is gathering support

But that's just the way it goes. Spurs v Arse wasn't broadcast in this country last weekend - of the games they pick for broadcast you can't expect them all to be riveting entertainment. And you get the odd unexpected cracker. Aussie v Norway (just into injury time) was fairly tame earlier on, but I've left it on in the background and the last 1/4 of the game has been fairly entertaining. It's certainly of more interest than the crap being spewed out by the terrestrial channels, and that goes for most live games broadcast midweek - even down to Conference level.

Emerton has just been subbed, for taking another crap corner.

Nice to see Emerton just elbow MGP in the face

philipl, I can't agree - it's a crap article by a poor journalist. = this is not true, the total figure has gone up, but because there are more games televised the average number watching each televised game is slightly down = means nothing. MOTD now has the first "match choice" session on Football First on Sky in direct competition in its timeslot, which has never happened before. The number of viewers watching highlights on Saturday nights is substantially higher than before. Many viewers of MOTD will continue watching Premiership highlights in the later sessions of match choice. = if this loser is trying to write that there's too much football on TV in this country, how can he base it around the fact that he watched two games simultaneously - in a bar - on foreign TV ? The very fact that these bars RISK showing the foreign channels means there's a market for the games to be screened. And finally, call yourself a sports editor ?? what tosh - how can you let a line like this through into your own article : If the near misses were going in for him then he should clearly not attempt any more all day sessions. The only thing that's happened as far as Premiership on TV this season is that there are more live games so therefore more choice. And the advent of Football First has given people an excuse not to travel away from home.

I find it amazing you've bothered to come back on the forum to post on the only topic in which you have an interest ! Although you've had to take 6 weeks off while Newcastle remained unbeaten I notice. Did you bring tom007 along with you ?

It's a terribly hard call to make, but I wouldn't say it was changing the rules. No-one could have envisaged this situation, where two candidates have 32 / 33% of the vote each but the other nine share 35%. Which is why France uses the two ballot system to elect its President. After the second round of voting, the winner is the one with over half the votes. The outcome is beyond argument. Because of the way this internet vote (and the associated comments in the thread) work, people who have voted later have had more information than those who voted early - ie the last couple of pages reveal the exact situation of the vote. Everyone who votes now will go one of two ways because they already know there are only two runners.

oh dear, wrong again clever, clever website

It would be interesting to know how many of those who voted Latheron would transfer their votes to Forrest, if this poll operated like the French Presidential election (which goes to a second round of voting involving only the top two candidates from the first round). I for one would transfer Latheron to Forrest, if that happened with all 12 he would be out in front, even if all the Batty boys (or girls) transferred to Sherwood. How the rest would split out would be interesting, but maybe, given how the voting currently stands, to get this vital decision right the vote could indeed be re-run with just the two leading candidates. No-one could then argue that the result was in any doubt. Sorry Den, I might just have made life yet more difficult for you !

hahaha that's rich coming from you, you jug-eared nork ! You have made 20 posts in this topic, Hughesy has made 26 .... .... and this is my 7th !!!!

The lads who were removed were very angry towards myself and friends. I think we of been responsible for them getting angry and getting removed. do you want a medal or something ?

read, understood and admitted you are right **** ... it's even YOUR employers TV station !! are you allowed to contradict ?