Thats fine Chadster! It's called a debate! One person says I think X because of Y, the other says have you considered Z and so on. You engage and consider each others points, sometimes your opinion changes, sometimes it doesn't.

Personally I'm glad there's this zero excuse culture. Because if that's what a zero excuse culture looks like, I can only imagine am excuse culture involves the team rolling around on the floor pincjing the grass, crying "its not fair!" Mind you I can see Brittain doing that anyway...

Even the best squad struggles with a duff manager. For example Bowyer's talented squad never got playoffs.

And mine is otherwise for the above reasons! Didnt realise it was 2 games in hand which paints a slightly false picture. But even if they win both they Still aren't in the top 2. They dropped points again today, so for me I can't see beyond a 3 horse raise for automatic promotion. Incidentally another poster made quite a good case that Southampton have the best squad in the division. Not sure I totally agree but it's certainly up there. That's a slightly different discussion though.

Whilst I can't see us winning, the same can be said of a number of other teams too. Plymouth, Brum, Huddersfield over the last few weeks have looked like they won't win another game. Sheff Weds charge has stalled. And all these teams probably need to get double the amount of wins we do to overtake us. With 7 games left I can't see it happening.

No way Martin will mastermind an automatic promotion at Southampton. He's pretty clueless despite having an array of talent. Plus they are too far off the top 3.

That's a good question but given Waggot is pond scum and clearly wanted someone who is a yes man, its unsurprising that it makes people hostile. Mind you the no wins in however many now can't be helping his cause either.

Still don't think we are going down despite our appalling form. Whoever said we are next seasons Rotherham has lt nailed on. But excluding Rotherham there are 4 teams below us that can't overtake us with the one win in 18 form we are in. And only 7 games left. I think the other teams aren't going to catch us. Not that that's anything to crow about. The only other managers at Rovers I can think of with zero new managers bounce are Coyle and Ince...

Sorry missed replying to this originally. Some good points, and I'd be the first to admit Forest haven't been that prudent. (Although speaking to Forest fans it's perhaps less reckless than it appears. For example the number of loans when they went up and the keeper situation to name two.) However whether known or not the fact that the rules aren't fair and limit promoted clubs more is both unethical and creates a glass ceiling. I'd disagree that 2 months outside the accounting period shouldn't be factored in - business accounts factor in things from much longer periods in my limited experience. So I think it's harsh of them not to allow this and counter to general accounting principles.

Agree. They are really trying to get it a closed shop. Reading about Forset I was astounded by how unfair these rules actually are. I mean I knew they were, and the City debacle is showing what a farce and how much favouritism is in play, but looking at this case brought it to a whole new level. Firstly Forest have a lower loss allowance as they were in the Championship for 2 of those seasons. Significantly less losses allowed. That really seems to be weighting the dice against promoted clubs. They try expanding to be premiership level but must have Championship level losses? Very unfair imo. Secondly the Johnson transfer doesn't count when they delayed the sale to the end of the window where they could ger more money for him - thus being outside of the accounting window (marginally.) That's apparently a business decision not a mitigating factor. My business knowledge is sketchy but even I know that accounts and financial judgements DO make reference to factors outside of the accounting period. Loans that are to come in, big repayments coming up - they are a factor! Bizarre that FFP says otherwise. Sucking the soul out of football.

Thats a blow. Had Brum as one of the teams likely to save us. Rowett is good, look at how clubs have done when he has left. Huddersfield I feel have experience of.fighting the drop. They haven't had many seasons when they aren't fighting for something, positive or negative. Rotherham game was a blow for them but feel they will scrap and survive. Plymouth really seem to be struggling and the manager is floundering. Sheff Weds I feel are spent. Stoke haven't made it work with anyone. So still a few candidates more likely for the drop. QPR I feel are on the up with their manager performing solidly since he arrived. likewise Millwall probably have enough new manager bounce to stay up, and not enough games for Harris to stagnate. All that said a few injuries or bits of bad luck and Millwall, Brum and QPR could still go down. They aren't out of the woods and a bit of misfortune could do us a massive favour.

Agree with the rationale although no chance is pushing it. We had a round of fixtures where practically everyone bar us in the relegation race won. Another of those and we are in a sticky situation. 3 point gap with 2 wins in 20 doesn't isn't the type of odds I'd be risking much on. That said I agree there's too many teams who need to do better than us, and I likewise cant see the doing it. Imagine 4 points from draws is feasible and realistic meaning those in the bottom 3 need to get 8 points to overtake us. Not sure that they will happen. Also some teams look very ropey at the moment. Brum, Plymouth, Stoke whilst Sheff Weds have been battered at the weekend. Doubt any of them are confident of getting many more points.

The statement tells me they've always supported us!?!? Makes me curious to know what not supporting us would look like. Short of burning down Ewood or taking out Sami I can't think of much detrimental they haven't done.

My thoughts too. In that context a point and a game less to play isn't a bad result for us. Of course said form over a whole season that'd be problematic but Rovers do like shunting issues into the next year...

That's been .my take for a while.

Last night I dreamg we were 4-0 down inside 20 minutes, 2-4 at half time, and it finished 3-4 with us having some literal kids playing for us. Sadly this isn't as fanciful as it could be. another Boro win I fear.

And yet still aren't above us. It's been Venkys regular get out of jail card that there will be 3 worse teams. Hard to see all of them maintaining that form, and there's still only 9 games to overtake us. Thank goodness we had the buffer that we did though

This is the only thing that will keep us up but surprisingly I think it's the only thing I'm positive about with Rovers. We are disappointed at another poor result but Plymouth will be gutted that they didn't beat us. And let's be honest if you can't beat the utter shower we are when we are down to 10 you aren't likely to stay in this division. Birmingham have shown they do runs as bad as us already this season and with the awkward managerial situation they have there, must be considered a likelier bet than us to go down. Stoke haven't got it right in about 26 managers - including some good ones - showing they are pretty rotten and frail club too. Also Sheff Weds have nuts owners too, albeit not on the scale of us. A few other things give me hope we will stay up. Firstly our run has been atrocious and yet we are still not in the bottom 3. That's perversely impressive. Secondly there are so many clubs down there. Lots of candidates to go down. Lots of teams where a bit of bad luck with injuries or decisions and they are in the mire. Finally closer to home having the league top scorer and still getting draws adds to my optimism. It's not acceptable form, would see us destroyed over a season but for this season may see us limp over the finish line. Don't misunderstand me. The owners are ro blame. The run is unacceptable. The squad is so poor. The manager is a dud. Maggot is a maggotAnd we will go down sooner or later if the club is run like this. But I feel this season we may well just sneak over the line and the club will herald it as a massive success.

Who are the 10 out injured? Is it really that many? Perhaps because in part those who are missing aren't that good either. Fleck- that injury was always going to happen. Was never going to play any meaningful part of our season. Pears - not a championship standard keeper. (His replacement is another issue mind.) Hedges - charitably called busy. Looks great 1 in 7, poor in the rest. Leonard- potential admittedly but still only played a dozen or so games. Are we that desperate for an untested striker? Tronstadt and JRC the only big losses as far as I'm aware, of a good championship standard. And being honest JRC is both a huge loss but injury prone and likely to miss chunks of the season. Can't see how anyone can say the squad isn't poor!

I'm convinced this is the plan. And points wise it probably would have worked only we aren't going to get draws against the stronger teams, meaning that we actually need to get a win somewhere. The lack of new manager bounce is appalling though even factoring in that he has a dire squad. Harris at Millwall has shown to be a poor or indifferent manager and I'm sure will struggle long term. That said he has got an initial reaction from the team. Most managers, even poor ones do. If this is our reaction then that speaks volumes about him.

Pears and Hedges aren't good enough for the Championship and yet are probably better than the alternatives. That shows you have far we have sunk.

Said a lot which is similar in the relegation thread. Great minds! Did add the Brum managerial situation can't help them and we know how dreadful they can be.

First off we all know it's a squad game these days. More injuries in football than ever before, higher intensity. Our squad has shamelessly been culled to the point there is zero depth - literally no options- for the guaranteed issues of injuries, loss of form and plan B. It's appalling that no one outside the first 11 is even of championship level football. One thing that illustrates this is super Sami is the replacement for Armstrong, Bereton, Rothwell and Dack... Even the first, or likely first 11 has some whopping issues you wouldn't be happy with. Gally is an OK championship striker in my book but no one would really be happy with him being the quality of your star striker/main man. No one would be happy with Pears as number 1 keeper at championship level. Too many errors by far and only wanted because the replacement is much worse. Brittain is poor, not good enough offensively to play further forward or be a semi consistent threat and weak defensively. And outside of the first 11 my word it's grim. A loanee who couldn't cut it in a lower French division, the invisible man, a crocked midfielder, and strikers who don't look like scoring if they played on an empty pitch. It's a grim situation. Mind you I do feel Stome are rotten, Sheff Weds for all their good form are still just below us, Brum have a very weird situation that won't help them and Rotherham have kindly made sure that's one relegation place sown up. So it's not over yet, although that's bugger all to do with our merit and entirely the dross of the division.

Given what I expected when I saw who was in goal and Millwall's form, I'm pleasantly surprised with a point. Is it enough? It's a point further from the relegation zone. Stoke lost again, as did our next opponents Plymouth. Bit surprised and worried Sheff Wed are climbing out of the mire but still tonight wasn't a disaster result wise. The bigger issue for me is by all accounts our play, attitude and everything else is hurtling downwards and will inevitably catch up with us next year if we aren't crap enough to go down this time round.

Now I don't think Pears is a championship level keeper. Far too many poor games and needless errors. BUT he is Buffon compared to the alternative. The defense is going to earn its coin tonight!