My big issue is that in most places we're in a worse position than before or are referring problems for 12 months. The keeper situation is one of them. Debatable whether the new chap is better - not convinced - but even if he does develop he'll be gone by the summer. Similarly Hanley on loan would be an improvement but in 12 months time we'd be in the same position of a terrible defence. A problem deferred not fixed. Factor in the probable losses of Downing, Graham, Mulgrew (albeit numbers only problem with him) and maybe Johnston along with the keeper and Hanley as well and we could have another summer needing big recruitment just to stand still.

I think he realises Bereton is a big mistake. Even if there is a decent player in there - which is questionable - he isn't a lone striker/target man which negates both the system and arguably our most talented player (Dack). Certainly with Graham still producing the goods and playing one up top there's no way you spend £5 mill, all your budget seemingly, on a 3rd option there. If there was a potential switch to 2 up top (not sure how you incorporate the rest of our players into that though, especially Dack) I'd have expected the last couple of games of the season for TM to give it a go. Basically I agree with what you are saying! I guess it's a positive he recognises Bereton doesn't quite work - if only he could see the flaws in the defence.

If we've spend £12 million on a successor for Graham and not succeeded in doing so that is gross incompetence. One is bad enough and poor judgement, but two... I still maintain as a big critic of TM we needed adequate back up for Graham this year. He's getting older and Dack also plays best with a target mannin front of him However if £12 mill and 2 summers hasn't done it then TM weaknesses are even more widespread then I thought.

But Tony makes it more complicated then it needs to be. Say playing a right back at right back instead of a mediocre midfielder there who's out of his depth in that position instead. Or playing our brightest prospect (Rothwell) rather then sticking him on the bench. Or even blowing £7 million on a striker who is not up to scratch. Also there is value to be had in the market. Norwich's top scorer last season came on a free. The lad from Hibs to Villa cost only £3 mill ish. Bauer was available on a free and we had even identified him as an option and fluffed it. And Bowyer was a poor manager but excellent scout who found huge value in the market - Cairney, Gestede and more. Don't buy that it's a lack of financial power holding us back this transfer window whatsoever.

Agree with the latter would ship on a 4 and a couple of others too. However I do feel Evans is a sham of a footballer who looks ok but actually does nothing. Not to mention he is hardly ever fit...

In fairness to that attacking line up the number of out and out strikers is very limited. Dack plays the 10 roll, Armstrong is out wide leaving Bereton, Graham and Samuel. Graham - good but aging. Age will catch up eventually. Don't want to be left with another Mulgrew situation. Bereton - looked poor last season and not up to it. Even if he is decent - and I doubt it - not up to taking on the mantle of Graham. Perhaps most tellingly of all he doesn't look suited to the lone striker role. Samuel - yeah. Nuff said. So to me we were really short up front too. Mostly is shows what a colossal waste of money Bereton was that needed to be rectified. So not my major criticism of TM doing so. That said given the other urgent areas needing upgrading perhaps a cheaper big unit of a footballer and diverting the majority of the funds from Gally onto a much needed defence would perhaps have been a better bet. Goodness knows that needed sorting too. But we needed cover up top as well imo. Finally if we had got Bauer would we be complaining about £5 mill on a striker. Perhaps that could have been the best of both worlds. Naturally we messed that option up too...

A few thoughts: 1) hard to get excited about signings. Even if we do sign players, and they are good (no guarentee of either with TM's track record) they aren't certainties to play - or play in their main positions. Given we had a few solutions to Saturday's problems on the bench, and given players when played aren't always in position (Bereton, Reed) there's a lot more hurdles to cross than "just" getting them in. 2) I'd keep Smallwood as a squad player. He can tackle and is always fit - 2 positives over Evans. Add in Evans wages and he's be the one to go for me. Johnston, Travis, Bennett and Smallwood are enough for the defensive mid positions. 3) it might be me and the papers hyping it but virtually all other clubs have made solid foreign signings - how hard is it to get our network set up and something from it?

Yes and that game was rearranged and still played! I cannot for the life of me think of why 2 clubs would be treated so differently in such similar circumstances (and location) especially with the club getting preferential treatment having behaved worse, other than the PL connection. I'm sure all the headlines would be ex premier League club goes bust and that is what they are striving to avoid.

Just realized Bolton and Bury are in the same league making the disparity in treatment all the more appalling. Equally the pair being on the same deduction with Bury to my knowledge not having cancelled any games is another unfair advantage to Bolton. Is it because they were in the premiership?

I'm not against the league trying to help a club out - high time they did something for the smaller clubs - but the difference in treatment between Bury and Bolton is appalling. Disgraceful for the EFL. Add in that there's no acknowledgement of Bolton failing to play a game, much less punishment and you do wonder what on earth the clowns are playing at.

Frustratingly people we've missed out on like Bauer (sp?) were on free transfers so it's not exactly like that would have been a big hole in the budget. Numbers wise - not quality - we've a ton of midfielders and strikers, yet are thin on the ground on defenders and that's before you get into assessing their quality or lack of. Poor do really.

I can't see Downing having the pace for left back if I'm honest. I worry too that he will be a first team player. Whilst he does bring balance of a left sided player who can cross to the team I wouldn't want him over Rothwell. Perhaps Rothwell could go on the right and Downing the left (agree he'll have been sold us as a regular starter) as Armstrong hasn't covered himself in glory? Either way it's not long term planning and will result in our younger players not developing. But I agree it'll be an anyone but Rothwell situation for most of the time.

Yes the hand being forced is another element in the lengthy Evanswood saga. That said it could have been rectified before Travis's emergence by sticking Bennett where he is actually good would like a start. Agree with Rothwell - no reason why shouldn't start. Especially since Downing started on the right and Rothwell plays on the left he could have had both in. And Armstrong hasn't done great. He really must hate Rothwell as even when he proves himself he isn't in the team. That said others are included regardless of performance so perhaps that isn't a criteria for selection.

Exceptional post highlighting the many issues. Only thing I'd add is it took a year before at least one of Smallwood/Evans didn't play - that's hardly a rapid response! Likewise Bennett & Mulgrew play as badly as they do yet retain their places - can't remember other key managers doing that. Flitcroft and Savage favourites of Souness and Hughes respectively were both dropped for poor form. Also how anyone can think Bennett is better than Nayambe at RB is beyond me. Pace, tackling, positional awareness - Nayambe is streets ahead of Bennett. I think highlighting the picking on young players is also something that is making me cold to TM. One of his big plusses was he was a genuine nice guy - around Ewood that's a huge positive - but between this and the saying one thing and doing another I'm beginning to dislike the guy as well as question his managerial competence. Interestingly the same happened to Bowyer - his comments by the end were rather dodge. Maybe working with the Vs corrupts?

First point I'll be honest. I feel under Williams and the old regime he'd have been gone by now as I do think he is pretty limited. If he wasn't potted in the summer - and I feel there is a strong argument he had taken us as far as he could - then absolutely you can't pot after one game. That said 3 or 4 more in this vein and given his past year or so he would be out if I were in charge. However, I will say this, whilst one game doesn't deserve the boot it speaks volumes about the type of manager TM is - ie limited. He doesn't learn fast enough to be a good manager. Secondly you will get no argument from me that TM isn't the best manager we've had in a while or that any of the recent incumbents have been anything other than poor to appalling. Problem is that really shouldn't be the standard any manager is judged against. If that's the bar I'm not sure it is off the ground! If TM was compared against other proper managers however - a much more suitable barometer to judge against imo - then the comment is far from harsh. Comparatively he's ok to not that good. It's our misfortune and TM's good luck that he's following a set of managers who struggle to rise past shambolic.

Bit of a harsh post. Know nothing about football? I'd suggest not sorting the defence is more an indication of that. Everyone pro/anti/ indifferent to TM says the defence needs sorting yet it doesn't happen. Again everyone of all outlooks has commented on how poor Smallwood, Bennett etc looks yet it takes an age to drop him. I'd suggest saying TM is immune from criticism is more of that ilk. Picking a few of last season's results. It was half a season that showed a downward trajectory. At the very least a 4 points from 10 games run wouldn't be sanctioned in most places. But absymal as that was it was probably half a season of poor results papered over by a couple of small winning runs. Not getting exactly what we want in the transfer window. How about any defenders? The defence was the same as 2 years ago and includes a midfielder out of his depth and a finished centre back. We've had 4 windows to improve this defence and we haven't really as yet. Forget exactly what we want, vaguely what we want would be a start. As for the difference between aspiration and expectation I'd say a manager under scrutiny after last season's results, after 4 unbalanced transfer windows, after keeping playing favourites, after blowing £7 mill on a dud. That would be an expectation at any club but ours. Anything other than a rational, critical evaluation of the manager's performance - and I notice that you haven't addressed his favouritism or use of young players - is a failure as a club to act in a professional manner. The expectation until Vs rocked up was that managers were assessed and judged. Only now do they seem not accountable on any normal time scale. Only thing I agree with is the caution of Venkys choosing the right manager. Very, very doubtful. However, if it keeps becoming apparent TM is not able to progress us, perhaps we do have to roll the dice again. Let's not pretend he's a good manager though.

The problems as people say have been there for many years. His positives combined with a raft of utter dros,s in the managerial seat before him, means that TM will not do terribly and therefore always look favourably compared to recent managers. He isn't terrible but my word he isn't good. For me the issues are as follows - and most significantly all go back over a season at least. - Defence is a shambles/badly organised. Has been the last 3 years though got away with it in League 1. Especially not having tough defenders after 6 windows suggests TM doesn't really get defending. - Playing players out of position for some or all of the game. The alarming thing is this happens rediculously often. Reed wasted out wide. Bennett poor at right back. Gally & BB ineffective on the wing. Rodwell ar cb. It is hurting us significantly and regularly. The experiments aren't working. - Having favourites who keep their positions regardless of how they play - Made worse by regularly throwing young talent under the bus and/or not playing them. - Not getting the most out of young talent - Nayambe, Rothwell and Raya all have the potential to become premier League players. Not a guarantee but to waste such potential is really poor. Any of these who developed in line with their talent would be beyond what we could afford to buy at a developed stage. - Unbalanced recruitment. Tons on strikers nothing on defence. Even in League 1 we had positions that looked thin on the ground. - Mixed recruitment - Whittingham and Bereton at a costly amount but the likes of Caddis and Harper show there were as many misses as hits. - Poor use of the loan market. Each year has seen as many flops as successes. - Finally on recruitment - predominantly players he knows. Granted all managers use this to their advantage but it's a straight jacket that is hurting us. - Taking too long to change things - the start of the league 1 campaign, the 19 game winless run sans Rothwell - change only comes at a slow pace Just get rid. He's not useless but my word TM isn't good. His flaws mean he'll never be very successful and any club with a modicum of professionalism or ambition would pot him. Not being a shower as bad as Coyle does not warrant someone doing a mediocre to poor job.

And Nayambe. TM's hipocracy is what gets me the most. He's thrown a few players under the bus just not his favourites. Spineless on both counts.

Disagree about Bereton being the answer but TM's balls up on buying him has left us in a hole. On one hand we cannot have an aging but quality Graham as our lone centre forward, on the other hand that £5 million was desperately needed elsewhere. Personally I think Gally is a decent investment in isolation, the problem is we desperately need a left back, centre back and keeper. I don't think too many people would disagree that was a pressing need too. An ideal world would've seen Gally signed and the £7 mill previous strengthening other areas of the team. Pragmatically perhaps buying a cheap big unit up front and investing in a decent centre back and left back would have been a smarter move. There's plenty of strikers who can do what Kuqi used to do for us - be a big unit and a nuscance - whilst allowing us to make sure we got a couple of defensive signings over the line. The other problem is with Gally, Reed, Rothwell and I'm sure others too is that it doesn't matter how good they are of they aren't played or played out of position. Messi would be a pretty poor centre back and it's unfair of TM to shunt Gally out to a position he struggles at. In fact much of our problems stem from this issue. Bennett is a good squad player, especially in the missile of the park but playing him at RB in anything bar an emergency is only asking for trouble and lies solely with the manager.

Out weak links costing us as per. No surprise there. Also why the clamour for Bereton - he is poor. Graham and Gally are perfectly adequate strikers, not sure Bereton is a game changer. A defender who can defend would be.

Top post. Sums up my thoughts far more eloquently then I could and shows what football has sunk to.

Top post. It is baffling. They play well, have potential to be playing at a higher level and yet neither can get in the team.

I think the obsession with Bennett could turn him into the next Lowe. Nayambe is much better at RB and has the potential to be an excellent player there so it's a baffling decision. Not convinced by Mulgrew's inclusion either. As for Rothwell it's the one rule for one, one rule for another problem. He was excellent at the end of last season yet is dropped. Mulgrew Bennett and a number of others weren't so great yet keep their places.

You think we don't need defenders? Are you saying that Kenny didn't invest in the defence because he didn't spend loads? - same goes for Hughes too: Mokoena £300 K I believe and Nelson also a pittance. Don't confuse investment and strengthening with big spending. The two don't always go together as a certain Bereton transfer will attest to. Bit worrying if you genuinely can't see top quality managers investing in their defences.

All good Rovers teams have been built from the back. Hughes first 3 signings Mokoena Nelson and Sav all defensive and crucial to us staying up and building a base from. Souness for all our attacking talent brought in Bjornebye (so?!?) Curtis and Berg as a foundation for our promotion to the premiership. Granted we had the crown jewels of Duff, Dunn & Jansen but he still invested in the defence (and it's worth pointing out 2 of the 3 gems weren't fully established in the team.) He then ruthlessly upgraded Curtis to Neil when he could get an upgrade. Big Sam - key signings included Giver and pushing the boat out on Salgado. King Kenny - ensured we had the defensive prowess of Hendry, Berg, Kenna, Le Saux and Pierce as well as some rather handy strikers and midfielders. Point is good managers do not neglect the defence. TM needs to learn this.