TM's comments would wash if he actually brought some defenders at any point. It would sound even better if he didn't have such a hit and miss record in the transfer window. I'm pretty sure a top manager would get us defending well as a unit with what we have. Big Sam for example was great at turning leaky teams into defensively tight ones. Seems like we've pulled into excuse central.

Bereton? On what basis should he stay? He's been poor and had he cost 700k or come through the ranks no one would bat an eyelid at him being canned. I'd also keep Bennett - decent in a number of positions and cover in others - Lenihen and Nayambe both for the same reasons and there's enough talent in there that a good manager could make decent/good championship players from. I also wonder if a decent manager could make something of Bell although whether as left mid instead I'm not sure. Agree with most of the others you'd keep but think Chapman also has a lot still to prove.

Really don't think that relegation is going to happen despite our appalling form for a number of reasons. 1) There's realistically only one relegation place to "play" for - 2 are nailed on certs, thus minimizing the danger. 2) These teams in serious relegation trouble are 10/11 points behind us, This means they need 3 maybe 4 wins - I'll go with 4 on the basis that we'll scab/fluke a couple of points a la last weekend. 4 wins out of 11 is decent form and It's roughly winning a 3rd of games which is form that Millwall, Rotherham and Reading have not had all season. Indeed, in the last 6 games only Rotherham have that form and I question whether they can maintain it. (Incidentally had we drawn vs Reading and Rotherham, we'd have an extra 3 point margin and would take the task to 5 wins in 11 seeing us virtually safe but that's another flaw of TM). 3) There are 3 teams below us by a significant margin of points. The odds of all 3 of them picking up a good run of form is very, very unlikely. Of late only Rotherham really look like they're doing it. Millwall have lost 3 on the bounce which gives the impression they're not going to get the 4 wins needed anytime soon. 4) There are other teams in the relegation mix. also currently below us. The added bonus is QPR have lost 4 of the last 5. We're not the only team imploding. There's a decent chance that at least one of these teams - QPR and Millwall, - will keep on a downward spiral saving us from relegation. 5) This division is poor, anyone can beat anyone and if that means that there's a chance that other poor teams pick up points, that's also the case for us too. We've been poor for quite a while and still managed a 4 game winning streak within this, so it's not inconceivable that we can pick up points, as well as other poor teams picking up points. I think we're at least good for a few draws, and another 3 draws would see the below mentioned team needing an extra win to overtake us. 6) For now our goal difference is still the least worst. I'd like to say it's on merit due to quality players, some promising pieces of play and a manager I trust that makes me think we'll avoid relegation. Not a bit of it, but I still think the situation is more than compelling to say we won't go down this season. Next year is a different story though...

Without Dack and with Graham and Mulgrew aging we've a real competition on our hands to whether our defensive woes are more pressing than our lack of attacking prowess. Not that I'd trust TM with it but £10 million invested well from Dack in this squad could really make it a top half of the table side.

Looking at the table the only positive I can see is that even with our absymal form we are super unlikely to be relegated. There's only 1 place possibly left - notlob and Ipswich are down and we have an 11 point gap over 2 teams. That's 4 wins to overtake us without us getting a point (although us not getting points is increasingly likely). I'd expect it would take both teams on current form most of the 11 games to make that up. Added to which there's a number of teams around us on top of those 2 which equally have to do better than us. It's not unreasonable to think at least one of those teams will also have a blip. Plus teams will have off days we have a few quality players so I imagine we will pick up a few points here and there to limp over the line. The point of this verbal processing and frantic looking at the table is because I don't think TM can turn it around this season but equally I'm certain he won't be sacked. Our best hope is (unlikely imo) that TM sorts it out in the summer. Whilst I'm not convinced he can I'm equally convinced that's the situation we will find ourselves in. A crap few months ahead but ultimately one that won't see us down. Worst that'll happen is it will convince Dack to go.

Let's say it's the players who aren't good enough quality - I disagree given how well mediocre teams like Sheff Utd have done and the performances the first 3rd of the season - but would anyone trust TM to dramatically improve the team? The majority of his signings haven't really done that - last year only Dack, Smallwood and Downing, this year Reed and Rothwell. There's just as many clangers from Bereton to Whittingham and as many who haven't really stood out either way. If we're reliant on TM to improve the team to rescue us we are stuffed.

Worryongly I think we put our a really strong team. Maybe Reed for Smallwood and Lenihen for Mulgrew bit that's nearly as good as it gets for us and we're still getting beat by a poor team.

Really not comfortable with this at all - it sounds like the players have too much influence. Also if it's that common why is it rarely mentioned by managers? That it's been raised at all at best seems a bit of buck passing by TM which is worrying in and of itself.

Yeah but no one is daft enough to fess up to the multitude of problems you've rightly attributed it to (although buying adequate cover should also be in the list). What is strange to me is in our relegation scrap last time round under TM we were relatively tight and it was not killing off games that was the problem. 2 years on and that solidity is completely gone. Also after his players choosing tactics comments he can't drop any worse clangers when talking about tactics but I digress...

I'd like to confirm I don't think Lowe is a good measurement of what a good DM is however we do need to improve upon what we had to move forward and Smallwood did that. Think we're in agreement to his level mind. I'm struck by the likes of Kuqi and Dickov who weren't really premiership quality but were key strikers along with Bellamy showing us players of limited quality can still push us up the table. Everyone says Samuel is rubbish bar me, perhaps I only saw his decent matches, absence is making me think he is better or I'm just naffed off with Bereton. Would agree with you though he is not the answer of proven quality back up but wonder if he could be a good squad striker and has potential to develop. Maybe I'm more patient and expect less when they don't cost £7 million!

You can be tough and not be a thug but that toughness makes for being a good defender. Nelson was the best example of this, a gent but tough. Todd is a good example of how you can be a thug and a good defender...

Think Samuel and Smallwood will still be here next season and wouldn't be too disappointed that they were. Samuel was ok-ish last season and after knuckling down in pre season last year deserves a bit of a chance to show what he is made of. Smallwood - I think people forget he was Lowe's replacement and can only be considered an upgrade in that regard. Whilst I don't think he's necessarily a starter I do think he can play a valuable role in the squad. Some games we'll need a scrapper like him, other times will want to bring on a player like him. If the rest of the team didn't lack creativity as much I doubt his limitations would be as much of a problem. Reminds me of Mokoena in some regards - a limited but useful tool to have in your tool kit. Many more issues to sort before these two going imo.

Yes couldn't agree more. Indeed I'd say the right attitude, game plan and to some extent (it varies these days) round pegs in round holes also all come back to the manager as well. My main point was I'm not sure the whole team needs replacing as there's enough decent material (with all the above "ingredients" thrown in) for us to make a better go at it than we currently are without signing a whole new team.

Not sure we need a whole new team for a promotion push. Sheff Utd players are by and large bang average but a good game plan, round pegs in round holes and the right attitude can go a long way. That said there are 4 glaring areas of the squad I think need strengthening (a tough CB, quality cover for Dack & Graham and a wide left player.) And that's before any outgoing players...

Some thoughts. A Charlton supporting work colleague says Bauer is brilliant and would be very sorry to let him go. Described as a beast of a defender. Good move if it comes off imo. Interesting stats from Mellitus Rovers - as others have stated we don't keep the ball well preventing the if they don't have the ball they can't score scenario. I also don't think we create many chances but both of these things are just my impressions from games seen/heard rather than statistical analysis. Not saying our defence is good but I do think our lack of ball retention, creativity, flair and chances all plays a big part in our poor defensive record too. I can't see teams having to worry too much about many of our players going forward, hence they have more chance to work on their offense. Compared to the first half of the season the vibe and atmosphere in the team seems really very different - not just results wise (though can't have helped.) Our never say die attitude seems to have gone and again I wonder if this is as big contributor to our poor defending too. Cheery post but basically I feel our bad defending is down to more than basics of defending.

What gets me is that we seem to have decent players but don't create much and aren't that solid defensively. Something not adding up. Really sounds like Mulgrew is finished and with Lenihen out as well that new CB we didn't buy is looking a really big error.

When a manager's comments start going off you have to think they're on sticky ground and struggling. Stats never seem to come up when manager is doing well.

My main issue with TM is the horribly unbalanced squad. We seem to have a glut of midfielders yet not one who is naturally a wide left player. Even our wide right players don't really look totally comfortable there (Armstrong and Bennett) although compared to other positions bar centre mid it's not first priority. Lenihen spent a lot of last season injured, Mulgrew seems to be fading but we didn't get in another top class centre back. Even if Mulgrew wasn't fading so fast given his age it would have been wise to plan for this Speaking of no cover and replacing older players whilst Graham hasn't faded there is no other striker at the club who can fulfil that role. Forgetting the price (criminal in itself) Bereton is not championship standard and Armstrong may give a decent plan B but can't do Graham's role. Likewise where is the cover for Dack? Perhaps it was meant to be Palmer who I didn't really rate but regardless again we have no creative back up for the hole position either. So in short we are resting our season on 2 players being fit, as well as ignoring a 3rd key position in our preferred formation (left mid) and having question marks over a 4th (CB). All of which seems madness. Injuries, loss of form or general tiredness all dictate adequate cover is needed. A good formation and plan requires each of the 11 positions are filled well within the first 11. Neither concern seems to be addressed and if that was hard to see over the summer (for which there is kind of a case) for it certainly should have been sorted in January.

Also regardless of the great stuff TM has done last season if we end up losing 5 in a row that puts him in pretty poor company Rovers manager wise, and probably says a fair bit about his ability. Not that he's a terrible manager but it's showing he is far from infallible.

Do we actually have anyone who can play wide left of the 3 behind Graham. I know the squads a bit short in a couple of places but I can't think of anyone whose natural position is wide left. We seem to be very reliant on Dack and Graham so if Brum can keep the quiet - and managing 2 of an 11 is not difficult - then we could well be continuing our losing streak. Brum are a decent team and I think that's what will happen.

That's an easy one. Blame the fans for a player playing badly. Perish the thought the club has brought a dud. Let's not blame the player or the manager. In my experience none of the big money forwards we signed had a lack of patience with them, and it was perhaps only after a prolonged period of games that the fans lost patience. I'm thinking Grabbi (seemingly liked to the end) Ward and Davies (both disliked by the end, but took a half season of messing it up before fans lost patience) and Jansen (who had a slow start then became rather good indeed.)

Goodness me, I can't tell if it's delusion or lack of comprehension. 1) Each time you are on Sky you get more money. Whether you spend that on buying players or wages/running costs is immaterial, it has still given you a huge advantage. Think about it, if a work colleague got an extra say, £5K, than you for the same job and work, you wouldn't say it was fair. Nor would you accept it if their response was we're not going on expensive holidays... 2) Leeds are on more than other clubs even when they are middle of the road also rans. It's been going on for years regardless of how well or badly you are doing. But hey, nothing like being selective with the stats. Again not sure if it's lack of comprehension or delusion. 1) If you have to break into somewhere, somewhere you are not meant to be, that generally tells you that it's wrong. Trespass for starters. If it's all ok, why didn't he go through the main entrance? You honestly think it's not wrong? 2) Your precious club have apologized. They think it's wrong. Square that one away. 3) It's all about results and that makes everything ok? Is that really what you are saying? Injuring other team's players? Offering bungs? Using performance enhancing drugs? Admittedly all a bit more excessive things but would you be happy with this all happening to your team? Of course the FA will do FA about it, maybe a politely worded letter asking Leeds not to bring attention to their lack of authority. Shame really as this sort of things should be punished heavily. As for your final paragraph is that glory hunting? Saying it's stupid to support "tin pot" outfits like I don't know Burton, Accy Stanley etc. smaller clubs. Congratulations on looking down at supporters of smaller clubs - which arguably shows more loyalty then supporting someone who wins all the time - and are part of the very fabric of the game. You're implying only big clubs matter. And you wonder why you are disliked... Oh, and in case you're still struggling. It's not because you are a big club (last trophy? Last in the Premier League? Crowds?) Nor because of your raging success, dominating British football.

I also wonder if a winger would make a huge difference to the team, as an outlet, for widening the pitch, enhanced creativity and enabling other more suitable midfielders to play inside. We're so narrow it's untrue. Another benefit would be it takes pressure off the full backs to attack and defend.

We need a striker who can play the lone striker role when Graham isn't fit/tired. We had success with a 4-4-1-1 so seems bonkers we don't have back up to play that system. Bereton is looking more and more like a bad mistake...

Agree. I don't think we're a bad team or it's a hopeless situation. Factor in that we should have won against a number of weaker teams in the division early on and it's clear we are competitive in this division. The problem is this is the most competitive division and any mistakes are brutally punished and exposed. For me there are two key issues causing this slump - mental and physical softness. So many points have been lost in the latter stages of the game either by collapsing or not turning the screws to our advantage. The positive and problem is that both are sortable from the manager. We have a decent squad - most are of decent championship quality which as Sheff Utd are showing this year and many other teams over the year is what's needed. What needs to happen is the squad needs to toughen up. The bug question is can TM do that?