Blue blood

Shows the terrible attitude he has towards the game. Doesn't matter how much ability you have if that's the attitude - get rid. I'm not even convinced he's that good at centre back which is where he wants to play. Poor attitude, poor in his preferred position, a poor injury record - why is he still an option?

My thoughts: Keep Raya. We can have an expensive development project such as Bereton but not keep Raya. Seems odd to me. Contradictory even. Put it this way how much would a keeper currently as good as or better cost? Also given Raya's undoubted potential can we afford to let someone with such potential go? How much will be be worth in a couple of years with improvements? I'm not certain on the calculations but I'm very confident that if Raya fulfils some.of his potential we'll never be able to afford that quality. Also anyone thinking our bad defending is down to just our keeper is deluded. Bennett at RB, Mulgrew and any left back would be in line to be replaced before Raya imo, but that would mean upsetting the lads so can't see TM doing it. Gallagher- pleased with link. Thought he was good when with us and less risky because known. Am worried about the trend though that TM generally only goes for players he knows. That said I think in this case it'd be a good addition.

You forgot to add in they had a bucket load of talent there as well as all the additions that he brought in. Very overrated. (I agree with your post btw just think he was even less impressive given he inherited a heap of good players too...)

Was just going to post similar. Shows organisation and planning after an indifferent season AND it didn't cost them the earth either. Powell in particular is a coup imo. Shows how lagging behind we are in this area.

Disagree. Not saying he's great but I don't think he's the worst in the squad by a long way and can do a job. Certainly feel he can be effective and offer something both in games when we perhaps need a few more grafters and as someone to come on and shore things up. Think Smallwood has suffered for 2 reasons which hasn't shown him in the best light: 1 he has been played with players who don't compensate for his weakness. Tugay for all his brilliance wasn't great defensively but Savage/Reid covered for this. Not saying he is Tugs quality but the principle is the same. Put him with a cm who can pass and he looks decent/competent. 2 he is squad player level but suffers a bit as TM had him as unstoppable for a long time. Not Smallwood's fault but it does turn fans etc. against him in frustration and give them a perhaps overly negative view due to that frustration. Anyhow I don't think it's the biggest issue/debate in the squad by a long shot. If we got better as a back up I wouldn't be too disappointed but I'd rather we got a better first 11 and spent our energy improving that rather than squad players.

Agree with all of this. The worry is that Whittingham didn't work out but TM knows Downing so hopefully less of a risk. I think the answers to your questions/worries imo are yes he will tinker rendering it less effective and no we can't afford that many centre mids - although Evans would be the one to go in my book. Feel similar to you that Smallwood is a good reserve to have in the squad as a backup player. Evans on the other hand offers little

Sad that every Leeds match will be shown on Sky again next year. Who am I kidding though - a price well worth paying to see Leeds fail again. Hilarious the contrast between how much Sky and their fans hype Leeds up and how often the team fails to live up to it. Is there a bigger discrepancy in football? Well done Leeds on giving us all a laugh.

TM has dropped another massive clanger if the rumours of these new contracts are to be true. Firstly Conway and Leuts have done very little to suggest they will add a lot of value next season - so much for bringing in top quality competition and improving the team. Shows a lack of ruthlessness or high enough standards which cost us last season and looks like it may begin to cause us problems next year as well... Secondly even allowing for TM's lapse in judgement over the quality of the above 2, why on earth would Gladwin merit a contract? He's done nothing in 2 years. This is beyond bad judgement into madness. Do we really even see him as a viable option compared to even the youngsters we played in the last few games? Nothing good about this at all. Very early days so no panic as yet, but it is a worrying sign that the same problems and weaknesses will continue to derail Rovers.

Lots of good players on the released lists. Brentford have let a couple go McLeod and the ex Chelsea lad who both were considered very promising. If we could keep them fit they may be good signings.

Talk about kicking them when they're down! Also can't a lot of their players leave for free/hand in their notice as they've not been paid for a few months? Might struggle to field a team on top of all their other problems.

Season review/conclusion; 1 word: frustration. Don't get me wrong, the final position was more than respectable. There were some good games too, and nice memories. A couple of exciting players were brought in, especially Rothwell, but despite all of that, the feeling I mainly come away with is frustration. Why? Well, to me, all our mistakes were absolutely avoidable and of our own making. Sometimes the circumstances well and truly get the better of you: the small squad under Hughes running out of steam with 3 cup runs in a tough league being one example of this. Or last time we got relegated - I'm no fan of Owen Clueless but selling our best players for £10 million plus and giving him only £250k would have hampered anyone. And TM probably would've kept us up if those making decisions had been halfway competent had fired Clueless even a game or two earlier. This season though I feel all our mistakes were well and truly avoidable. - The 2.5 attackers and therefore struggling. As soon as we dropped this we looked really exciting going forwards. Everyone was clamoring for Rothwell months before he was a regular in the team. Who knows what would've happened had he been played even a month or more sooner? - Likewise the Evans/Smallwood combination clearly didn't work. Again in Reid and Travis we had some better options, but often these options were overlooked. Hypothetical, but who knows how many more points we would've gained had the Evans/Smallwood axis been broken sooner? In both cases it's not an if only we had a Kante or a Messi (or more realistically whatever the Championship equivalents are!) - we had the players on the books. - Defense - we knew from the last 2 seasons that Mulgrew and Lenihen were both susceptible to injury. Yet the only other "centre back" we brought in was an equally injury prone converted midfielder. There was no way we should have got caught out with injuries in this position, it wasn't unlucky - it was inevitable given all our centre backs have a history of injuries. Insult added to literal injury in this department was letting Downing go out on loan. I'm not entirely sure he was the answer, but surely cover was better than nothing. We dropped the ball so many times on defensive cover from not buying adequate cover in 2 windows, and letting last season's cover - who performed well last season - also go out on loan. Another entirely avoidable situation. - It was probably obvious to all that we needed strengthening in defense (especially with injury prone players) and top quality cover for Graham up top, but frustratingly we had the resources to do so. 7 million of them. 7 million could well and truly have brought in enough players to ensure we had good quality cover in both of these positions. 7 million in the championship can go a long way if used wisely, as there are some cracking deals out there - the ex-Hibs midfielder now at Villa looks a snip at £2.5 mill, and the Norwich lad who was top scorer was a free transfer (and I need to get better with names too.) All this talk of needing cover and strengthening really shouldn't have been an if only, as £7 million well spent would have made a huge difference. I'd probably rate TM as 50:50 in the transfer window but even 1 or 2 more additions of good quality - say 1 striker to take the pressure off Graham, or one better quality cb - would have made a massive difference to our campaign. The money was there, and we blew it. - Many players staying in the team despite bad runs; Mulgrew, Evans, Smallwood, Bennett, Williams (at lb). Again we had options to replace them with, yet these players were allowed to go on lengthy bad runs. Hypothetical again, but who knows how we would have done if a couple of them were withdrawn till they picked up some form? Equally with younger players withdrawn and singled out after a couple of poor performances, I'm unsure as to how the favoritism of veteran players would've helped the squad moral and dynamics. Again, this was avoidable, if a player is persistently poor over a few games, withdraw them. - Finally the not getting started for the first 20 minutes. This happened so, so many times. Everyone starts slowly now and again, and sometimes the opposition out-think or outfight you. Sometimes you simply get it wrong tactics or personnel wise. But for it to happen so often with us not addressing it, suggests that we aren't really learning. That it's happened repeatedly suggests that it shouldn't be that hard to spot, and therefore address. Again a hypothetical, but had we a stronger start in a proportion of the many games we started slowly in, I wonder how many more points we would have had. In short I feel that there is a lot of potential in the squad, and despite all the - blatantly rectifiable imo - mistakes we still were comfortably mid-table. That suggests to me there is a heck of a lot of potential in this squad, and with a bit of nous we should be optimistic going forward. The caution for me is that these mistakes are all of our own making, which makes me doubt whether we will actually make good on our potential.

He can say it all he likes but it's blatantly not true (yes I got your sarcasm). I honestly think that's the biggest problem we have - even more so than our square pegs round holes and defence. At best we give ourselves 70 minutes to get results and it's cost us a lot of points - yesterday being just 1 example.

I'm a bit worried that our slow start seems to happen every game. I'm also a bit dispairing that Bennett and Leuitweiler are still in the team. Not sure getting well beaten is a bad thing as hopefully it reinforces to TM how much work there is to be done. These positive and negative streaks have not helped at all as depending which one we are on our flaws or promise are both overshadowed. Hopefully today shows what we could/should be aiming towards.

Shame about Leeds... Are Villa securely in the play offs? Might they play a weakened team? Hope not as that can only help Leeds. OpHoping Leeds fully bottle it - again.

Yes. Add in Millwall aren't doing that much better, and it seems we'd have had to do beyond horrific to have any chance of going down.

Cheers, so I mean Buckley then? Both impressed though Buckley took a bit more time to settle into the game.

Thought today encapsulated our season. When we were good we were very, very good, when we were bad we were atrocious. Cliche but true a game of two halves - first half we were appalling. We gifted Bolton a host of chances, made them look quite good and looked utterly toothless in attack and created nothing. Then out of the blue, we played our first good bit of football and were one nil up from a well taken Bereton goal. Second half we dominated a deflated and tired looking Bolton team, with pretty much everyone looking pretty good. A few thoughts: Spot on with the team selection today imo. Gave our second centre forward and second keeper the chance to show what they are made of, and gave the youngsters plenty of time. Bereton looked ok. Not a world beater, and when we are struggling and have a tendency to hoof it long - like we were in the first half - he's a peripheral figure. When we're playing good stuff, and some through balls, and on top, mainly in the second half plus the one wonder move in the first, he looked rather promising. Horses for courses - he might not be a nag - although it is only one outing - but he really doesn't fit our plan A. But I was pleasantly surprised at how he did (and other than the wonder move out of nowhere, Messi or no one would've shone up top for us. We seem to be limited to target men centre forwards only thriving under TM). First half was poop. Really bad. In the euphoria of a win, a Bereton goal and a great second half showing, that really should not be lost. Biggest criticism of TM and worry from today, we simply take too long to get started, and against better teams we will get punished for it (and have.) Perhaps more than a leaky defense, no plan B, adequate cover in areas, this may be the biggest problem that needs to be addressed. In the direness of the first half I thought Dack looked hungry for the ball and Travis looked up for it throwing himself everywhere. Good attitude from both players when our heads were down. Williams looked solid at centre back. Never thought I'd use the words Williams and solid in the same sentence, at least not without putting head in between those two words, but he looked pretty good and even quite composed on the ball. I know it was only Bolton but he looked miles more comfortable and not a liability at cb. Why are both Armstrong and Nayambe both afraid of going to the byline and afraid of crossing? the latter in particular irritated me all afternoon. Rothwell when on song looked good, as did Dack, as did the youngsters who came on. Number 34 (Butterworth?) a bit nervous when first came on but both grew into the game adding energy and looking comfortable. Thought Rodwell was a bit anonymous and no great shakes (noticed Travis more) but when he went off until Butterworth(?) settled down we missed his presence so perhaps he was doing better than I thought. Lenihen was also solid at the back. Leuitweiler - my word he is not a keeper. Fumbled a number of shots, punches softer than a 2 year old, struggles to kick and positionally was a bit suspect a few times. Goodness me, no way should he even be back up. Seemed like an autition for a Steele impersination, although fortunately there weren't any real clangers. Overall we saw exactly why we are where we are. We showed our attacking talent, energy and some bright young players, and we also showed at times we offer nothing and gift the opposition with openings. Some teams will capitalize on our weaknesses and punish us, others will be poor quality, won't and we;ll do them when we finally get going. The frustrating thing is, play like the second half and play offs aren't unrealistic. Play like the first, and relegation is very much on the table too. Nothing much learned today, but glard the positive side edged out the weaker side, and we got a win in the sunshine.

Appalling performance great goal nicely put away. Beautiful move which makes me wonder what the dickins we've been thinking for the other 30 minutes. Pleased for Bereton as showed a bit of quality there.

Smith is a really good manager. Shows what a difference that makes...

Bad communication on my part - it's beyond babyish they don't use it. In fact they're the only people I know who don't use it. Every business I know utilises conference calls so why they won't is inexplicable.

It also shows why we'll never succeed under Venkys. When your decision making process is twice as slow as everyone else's you are at a massive disadvantage. (And no Skype - beyond unprofessional, babyish.) Given they don't have a clue either when making decisions it's a guaranteed disaster.

In fairness to Venkys - whom I loath and detest - I can see why they'd be sceptical giving TM money after the last £7 million went down the drain. One of the most baffling things they did was cut the limited funding to Bowyer given the profit he kept making for them. Either way I've a feeling our budget next season is going to be small.

We're on a good run, Bolton have off field problems and are on a poor run, I really feel we should be winning this. Am quite looking forward to going and seeing the lads in action, especially since we've pulled ourselves out of that awful run. A few thoughts: - Am not sure what the point of the fit and proper test is. If being banned from owning a club before doesn't constitute unfit and improper I'm not too sure what would. Our football league are better suited to running the administration of a South American dictatorship of yesteryear rather than a sporting competition. - Now Bolton are actually relegated that could take the pressure off them and free them up a bit. I've a feeling their confirmed relegation could work against us. - That said we really should win and win comfortably. Definitely a game for Bereton to start. I don't think he's any good but if a dead rubber match against a team already relegated that leaks bucket full of goals isn't the time to try and get something out of him, I don't know when is. 3-1 Rovers

Thanks for a well reasoned counter argument. I don't think I am solely negative, although I'll admit I am not TM's biggest fan. (In the Tony's transfer record I give him praise for his positive signings for one.) I think the point I'm trying to make is an evaluation of his positives and negatives make me sceptical that he can take us further forward. Can't argue with most of your positives - the stabilising, looking up instead of down, and I would add in got rid of most of the dross too - Steele, Feeney, Lowe, Stokes - he's got rid of some corkers. Thing is, I'd say your post for Tony, actually says more about his weaknesses than his positives. - "signed gems as well as flops", and "attacking flair and promise including hopefully Bereton." Am really not sure how you can class Bereton as promising much less attacking flair. You've basically put his biggest and most expensive mistake, as a hopeful positive! Bereton blew most of our transfer budget and looks nowhere near ready, how can that be a positive? - also on the gems as well as flops - I'd say that good managers generally have 2 stats in the transfer market: 1) they get more right than wrong, and 2) they get the big expensive ones right. Big Sam, Hughes, even Bowyer (who I don't rate that highly) all had more plusses than minuses and got the expensive transfers right. TM with the best will in the world is more 50:50 and has got his most expensive signing wrong the last 2 years. - the attacking flair that you mentioned, 2 of whom have hardly played this season, and one still isn't. I guess you could say TM is learning - albeit slowly - now Rothwell is in the team, but there are question marks as to why it has taken so long. I think this shows TM isn't a disaster of a manger, as he does learn from his mistakes, but isn't a great one as it takes an age for him to do so. His time in league 1 with us to me followed a similar pattern. It took him quite a while to get to grips with it. A good manager gets to grips with things a lot more quickly, which is another reason I feel we'll not progress under TM. - "his job is to find the right style of play to get the best from them" - perhaps your most damning statement of TM. The fact he hasn't got a style yet after 2 and a half years in the job is beyond worrying. The fact we haven't been signing players to fit said style or haven't worked the style out, again shows a massive lack of planning and nous. I get Rome wasn't built in a day but no good manager is still looking for his style 2 and a half years on. Take Hughes for example - first half season uber defensive, aggressive and stay up, and then a more expressive but still aggressive game from his first full season onwards. Big Sam had us going long from day 1. Top not have a system in place 2 and a half years on is pretty criminal. Don't get me wrong he is a decent manager, which is a lot better than most we've had. His mini-runs prove he's not terrible. He does learn (albeit slowly) he can get some good players in - compared to chancers like Coyle and Ke*n he's streets ahead. Problem is for me ok isn't good enough and I don't think that's what we need to move us forward.

1 posted a while back a car driving analogy that shows achieving the objective isn't the be all and end all. For brevity's sake if I drive you somewhere on time but had 3 near misses that nearly ended in crashes you wouldn't get back in the car with me. Objective achieved enough said is too simplistic and one we don't use in everyday life. 2 what makes you think he will get the right transfers in? His record is sketchy at best. Bereton, Whittingham, Harper, Hart, Caddis and more - there are zero guarantees the guy will rectify it in the transfer market. At best he has a 50:50 record. Is that what people are trusting in? 3 assuming TM does get the right pieces what makes you think he will use them properly? We've consistently had over the last 2 years players played out of position, talented players not being played, favourites playing in poor form, others dropped for only a few mistakes and singled out publicly. Again what of this makes you think TM will improve us with this kind of performance. I should point out points 2 & 3 are facts. There have been transfer flops. There have been players kept in during horrendous form and others scapegoated. There have been players played out of position. The facts are pretty damning and I really hope TM goes before losing the plot overshadows the positives.