Incredible, and a real weakening for Argentina imo. I would also have brought Samuel, I've always thought he was class, but leaving Zanetti out (for SCALONI!) is just strange. Fall out? I see Sorin was picked instead of Veron also, they don't mix if I recall correctly?

Yes, I was mainly asking on a general basis, he was very good prior to the 2002 world cup.

I've seen that, nothing to frighten there. One of the reasons he left Inter in the first place..

I can see why you say that, Eddie, but I still think Mexes would have been a better option. As for Barthez, you probably have a point - I'm sure you know the team better than me, but why has Frey been ignored for so long?

I'm not surprised, I think City were willing to give him what he wanted in terms of wages, plus his chances of making the XI is probably bigger there next season. Good luck, Paul, your hard work for us will not be forgotten!

It's a decent squad, by all means. But with Zidane slightly over-the-top (at least you can't expect him to win the World Cup for France like he did last time) I think they will have to rely on Henry's brilliance and Trezeguet's finishing this time. Thuram is no longer the defender he once was either, I still can't believe how he can include both Givet and Boumsong, and not include Mexes- who's been absolutely top class alongside Chivu for Roma this season. Dubbed the new Laurent Blanc for years, he's finally starting to show why. Both Dacourt and Candela agree with me btw, can't be arsed to find the link though

Also a bit disappointed that Mancini didn't get a place in the Brazil squad, but at least he was dropped for good players - unlike Mexes.

Fabien Barthez (Olympique Marseille), Gregory Coupet (Olympique Lyon), Mickael Landreau (Nantes). Eric Abidal (Olympique Lyon), Jean-Alain Boumsong (Newcastle United), Pascal Chimbonda (Wigan Athletic), William Gallas (Chelsea), Gael Givet (Monaco) Willy Sagnol (Bayern München), Mikael Silvestre (Manchester United), Lilian Thuram (Juventus). Vikash Dhorasoo (Paris St Germain), Alou Diarra (Racing Lens), Claude Makelele (Chelsea), Florent Malouda (Olympique Lyon), Patrick Vieira (Juventus), Zinedine Zidane (Real Madrid). Djibril Cisse (Liverpool), Thierry Henry (Arsenal), Franck Ribery (Olympique Marseille), Louis Saha (Manchester United), David Trezeguet (Juventus), Sylvain Wiltord (Olympique Lyon). Where the hell is Phillippe Mexes?? Silvestre, Boumsong, you have got to be having a laugh! I also miss Sebastian Frey, who's been overlooked blatantly for years - giving Barthez the opportunity to "shine" as first choice. Feel free to discuss other choices aswell, Argentina not bringing Walter Samuel and Javier Zanetti..

Erm.. sure, why not! Plus, it's surrounded by mountains, not the easiest city to travel to

Juventus simply can't get away with this, with the amount of evidence available - a relegation seems inevitable. Their friends in high places are also on their way / already gone.

Why, do referees dislike Ronaldinho? I think "enough said" is the best part of your post. Tosser. Neekoy: No, of course that (tearing apart Chelsea) counts for something, and I have never questioned his quality whatsoever. (reread my posts if you think otherwise) My point is, even today people talk about him being fantastic, just for passing a ball ten feet. Whilst there is a worldwide opinion that he's the undisputed number one footballer, I think there's one or two on the same level when it comes to what the player brings to his football club.

That would have been wrong in my opinion, a yellow card would suffice if Giuly had scored. The rule is built around cynical fouls to take away scoring opportunities, the foul itself wasn't more than a yellow. If Giuly had scored, Lehmann wouldn't have taken away the opportunity, and should therefore not have been sent off either.

Sober as can be. The way he plays football and the techniqal stuff he pulls off is somewhat unique, but that aside I think there's a few players on the same level.

I'm not saying he's not a fantastic player, but if you had put him in a league with better organized defences, and perhaps more cynisicm in taking players out of the game - like the Serie A - I would think he would struggle a whole lot more. I guess Zinedine Zidane is a decent example.. As I said, a fantastic player and a great rolemodel, but he's not that far ahead of the other stars - in my opinion. You mention the Real game, a fine example of horrible defending. (of course also a fair bit of skill from Ronaldinho) As I said, I think he's a fantastic player and great fun to watch, overrated was the wrong word to use..

No need for that tone, mate

Poor refereeing ruined the game in a way, but it did not favour Barcelona anything more than Arsenal. The red card was okay, as soon as his whistle had gone, but it really shouldn't have. 1-0 Barca and yellow card for Lehmann would be a better option - instead Eboue dived and should've had his second yellow, was given a freekick which Henry crossed for Campbell to head behind Victor. To sum up, Lehmann should've gotten a yellow, Eboue should've gotten the red, and Barca should've been 1-0 up ! (obviously Eboue might not have gotten the opportunity to dive if Giuly's goal had counted) Henry and Ljungberg both had good opportunities to secure the win, instead Barca was allowed to continue their five-a-side twenty yards from Arsenal's goal. I find it odd that Arsenal didn't have a man upfront to chase Marquez and Puyol more, you can't defend like that for 35 minutes. (even though I almost believed they'd make it for a while there..) Not a good night for fellow Norwegian Terje Hauge and his two assistants, not a very good night for the tad overrated Ronaldinho, and not a good night for Robert Pires - who was taken off in his last game for Arsenal because of a foul made by a teammate.

Great!

If Juventus is found guilty of the alleged crimes, they have fulfilled all the demands to get the strictest punishment available from the Consiglio Federale - they can remove Juventus' name from Serie A, and put them somewhere between Serie B and Serie C3 - if enough rules are broken. They can also deduct points from Juventus for next season, aswell as relegating them. Fiorentina and Lazio are both accused of "ordering a referee" for important matches, and can face the same punishment as Juventus. Difference is that their whole board isn't involved, so a point deduction is perhaps most likely - and if they are relegated - they won't be relegated as far as Juventus. Milan only has minor problems, none of the top men involved - only Leonardo Meani, a club associate. They will not be relegated unless new evidence comes up methinks. It will be very interesting to see how far they will relegate Juventus, and also which players will follow the club down. I can't see Alex Del Piero sign for another Italian club......

They're now trying to sign an ageing defender to help the young guys out, after releasing Kenny Cunningham - arguably the perfect fit for the description - a week ago. They are relegated, they have huge wages on their players AND they fall out with the team captain. To use a very well known line from this thread - couldn't happen to nicer fellas! "If I read one more "Jewish boy done good" article about Gold, I will impale myself on one of his dildoes" - Simon Jordan

Well, Collina has been involved in match fixing earlier if I recall correctly, he was relegated for a season some time ago. I might be wrong, but I don't think so..

Blues hit back

Won't be as much pleasure in seeing the Scudettos withdrawn from Juve imo, as long as they're given out to the second best cheaters, Milan. Will not surprise me if no one is demoted to Serie B/C/D tbh, there's just too many big clubs and too many big names involved. Would love to be wrong though, even if the most important thing here is setting a standard and removing these bad influences.

I also saw something about Zdenek Zeman perhaps getting a high profiled position (can't remember which atm) very soon, which can only be good for Italy and Serie A.

Arrrrgh, how can they have so much on Juve, and nothing on that thoughtless crook Berlusconi? He messes up basically everytime he speaks, can't believe it should be that hard to link him to something illegal aswell.

Let's dream about beating some ex-Sovjet state team and getting into the tournament first, shall we?