I don't think Lambert would have come here in the first place without the release clause. He was the manager with the highest standing in the game who has joined us and it is telling that he wanted the release clause so that he could get out if things really were as bad as he was told they would be.

These sorts of things may be possible but if they don't proceed I think it will be down to people in India rather than the failings of anybody at Ewood Park. Regarding FFP I think deals do have to look as if they are in line with market rates. I get the impression that the EFL are now under pressure from some clubs to look very hard at clubs who are trying to circumnavigate FFP - in particular Steve Gibson and Middlesbrough are prepared to threaten to take legal action

You are disagreeing with me which is your prerogative. Re League One that season saw us with a club record number of wins and points; I think to be finding fault there is a bit silly. Regarding the manager I've put forward reasons why I hold this view - they are summarised as 3 points above. I don't think we are where we are because of the reasoning of people like myself but rather because of utterly disastrous decision making about personnel and club structure in the early years of the Venky's ownership.

Has anyone said we have the best man or only man for the job ? If so I would disagree with them; but what the muppets like myself who take a different line to you are saying is that we think it unlikely that the owners would be able to identify someone better or attract them here even if they did. Basically I think you are looking at what you think is theoretically possible whereas we muppets are looking at what we think is likely in practice.

I agree with this. The manager can be justifiably criticised for the mistakes that he has made - although he is not "rank bad" as one poster above described him, just an average manager at this level, as Bowyer and Lambert were for us as well. Anyone who argues for the manager to be removed does need to acknowledge that the likelihood of getting someone any better is low : 1. The owners have made 7 managerial appointments in their tenure to date, come up with no one better than Mowbray, and 4 who were significantly worse. 2. The owners have a toxic reputation in the game. They appointed an absurd Malaysian TV presenter to have some kind of overall say in football matters; more seriously the club was successfully sued by a former manager and one of the most distinguished players in the club's history in Henning Berg when they attempted to renege on a commitment in his employment contract. 3. It now seems quite likely that FFP rules will kick in to restrict the club's transfer dealings

Are you always so aggressive towards people who hold a different view to yourself ? I've been supporting the club since 1965, mate, when I attended my first game so there won't be very many on here who have been supporters for longer although I know there are some. The minority are putting forward a different view based upon their interpretation of what has happened under these owners in the past and the appalling financial results that were reported yesterday. My view is that these two factors cannot be ignored. Others obviously don't share those concerns to the same degree but I have no intention of talking about insults or arrogance.

Here goes : 1. Mowbray is not the only option but my opinion is that the poor judgement of the owners and the FFP rules mean that no better manager would be hired. 2. As I am a football supporter not a consumer I have hopes rather than expectations. I hope that one day the club will return to the Premier League and win the FA Cup. 3. Fit - yes. Organised - varies from good to bad from game to game. 4. No 5 No real complaints regarding the way young players are progressing. 6 I thought Nyambe was now first choice right back. Agree about Gallagher. Downing is versatile just like Milner at Liverpool 7 Three years ago under Owen Coyle for starters, and no doubt the other relegation seasons as well. 8 Manager has brought in loan players for defence - there may be pressure from the owners not to spend in that area. 9. Yes you can be critical of TM; believe it or not I am as well but it is the conclusion that as of now he should be fired that I disagree with.

Thanks. To really answer your question I would need to know the actual facts regarding the FFP position that the club is in - because I think that would have to be explained to any potential successor so there could be no question of them feeling they had been misled as to the task in hand. I take on board everything you say but what worries me is that getting someone better than Mowbray will become all but impossible if the FFP position really is as difficult as it has become at other clubs. I would axe him if I thought he was taking us down - along with pretty much everyone else I wanted Owen Coyle fired because it was clear he was going to relegate us - but I don't think we are going down under Mowbray, or at least not this season.

No - I hadn't heard of Wagner or Farke. I have no idea if there is anybody at the club with the sort of knowledge to do what you suggest - the owners seem to favour the use of agents and external consultants for this sort of thing. Nobody on here is blasting other fans for being negative for wanting a charge - it's just a minority of us are trying to point out there are potential pitfalls which in our view point to keeping the manager.

He achieved a points per game return about 50% better than his predecessor. I don't know of any walk of life where a manager achieving a 50% improvement in results with the same resources is considered to have done a poor job.

Whom have you identified as better than mediocrity ? Would they want to come here given our financial situation ?

Only in the minds of the ignorant - sensible people know to look at things in depth

He got 22 points from 15 games in that relegation season which extrapolated over a season is comfortable midtable. The man who took us down was his predecessor who got 29 points from 31 games.

I mentioned Dowie as a joke. I don't dismiss the £12m - although I think it may well be the case that he was not the instigator of the signing of Brereton - but I don't think sacking him as an act of revenge is the way forward. My view is that the club's financial position and the owners' track record in appointments means that we are best advised to stick - this appears to be a minority view on this board.

Is it really necessary to describe people who have put forward an argument you disagree with as "muppets"? Mowbray is an average manager at this level unlikely to get promotion but equally probably a safe pair of hands in avoiding relegation. Why not name one or two of these better managers ?

No doubt we are an attractive proposition to many managers - Ian Dowie is dusting off his CV as we speak- but probably not the good ones. The £12m is gone and getting rid of the manager does not bring it back - with a contract until June 2022 payoffs mean that FFP gets even tighter.

Yes , loaning him out for the rest of the season looks like the most advisable course of action - whether the owners would agree to doing that is another matter

You don't want to hear it because the Mowbray Out argument is hugely weakened when considering his successor. The accounts strongly suggest that the club will face significant constraints in the transfer market due to the FFP rules thereby reducing the attraction of the job here to prospective managers. Additionally there is Venkys track record in appointing managers which suggests we are more likely to get someone worse.

I am afraid that in the real world you have to care about financial issues.

I had no difficulty understanding Tomphil's post; yours on the other hand................

I've already answered this in my previous post on this thread

You must have had a good New Years Eve to think we'll get £6m for Armstrong ! More seriously, Mowbray's contract runs to June 2022 so getting rid of him - and presumably some of his team - will cost a fair bit and mean that the new man is starting from an even worse place with FFP. I can understand why what is looking like poor signings for big money is going to end up protecting the manager is upsetting for people but we have to start from where we are rather than where we would like to be.The question is who is going to want the job if the financial constraints are so tough; the difficulty is always going to be that anyone who is any good is going to have a choice as to where they go and we just don't look like that attractive a proposition to me.

I don't really understand your post but if "the job" is to get promotion to the Premier League with possibly no net spend in the transfer market from now on - and possibly a requirement to turn a profit - then you must realise that "the right man" is going to be very hard to identify because it's going to be so tough to do.

I'm trying to state the factual position as it now is with regard to the club's finances and the FFP implications - indeed there doesn't appear to be any disagreement. Leading on from there any new manager will be working with considerable financial constraints and I've given my opinion that as a consequence (1) attracting proven big name managers like some of the names regularly mentioned on here is likely to be impossible and (2) preferring a novice in Damien Johnson to an experienced man like Tony Mowbray is probably a mistake. Of course you are free to give contrary opinions.

You're probably right. The one thing I would say is that cheating the system is likely to be very much harder now because some clubs - notably Steve Gibson at Middlesbrough - are watching what is going on at other clubs like hawks and are prepared to take legal action to ensure the EFL enforce the rules.