Official attendance today was 13,781. For the game in 1989 it was 8,415

No - I didn't quite mean that. I don't want Mowbray fired under the present owners because I don't think Mowbray is going to relegate us and their new pick might well do based on the quality of some of their previous decisions. In contrast it was clear to all of us from a long way out that Coyle was going to relegate us and so there was no downside in moving him out

Totally agree, Stuart. Unfortunately, do we really think they will learn ?

I am afraid so - although of course Mowbray will go eventually - before Venkys do I expect

Yes - you are right but even then they were able to pick Coyle over Warnock

Yes - good point ! I'll just add I loved watching Garner play - obviously he wasn't perhaps the most dedicated of players - I was at a match at Swindon when he got off the team coach complaining about the money he'd lost playing cards - but there was always a little bit of magic in the goals he scored and he deserves to be the club's leading goalscorer.

Yes but that is with the benefit of hindsight. The very good players that you refer to were in the early stages of their career so we really need to give it a bit of time to compare the players of the present division. We have already seen from last season's division the likes of Grealish,McGinn,Mount, James and a number of the Sheffield United players show that they are very good players.

I don't think he is better than any manager that "could" be appointed. I think there is a significant likelihood that he is better than any manager that "would" be appointed by the present owners. I don't think we will be relegated under Mowbray - not this season anyway. This is probably going to be a poor, disappointing and dull season. Of the 20 or so seasons spent in this division in the last 40 years it is clearly one of the less enjoyable but it happens - I don't think it will be disaster. The "perspective" I referred to was that I don't really believe that late winning goals "mean nothing " to football supporters

The game is generally played in a less direct style now - yes

I was babbling about more people going to games now than 30 to 40 years ago because overall the experience of going to a football match is better

If you look further up this thread you will see that I know that several of our 1980s teams were better than the present side

My comment was made by reference to the overall football experience so I was also taking in to account factors such as the improvements in stadia, crowd behaviour and pitches. Regarding the players it's a different game now. Hoddle was a tremendous player to watch when he played but I don't think he would be unplayable now because the modern pressing style would leave him far less time on the ball. Can't agree with you re Gerrard who was a magnificent player

No - Mowbray was the only good thing about the 2016-17 season - I was referring to the Coyle part of the season

Clips are my definition showing a small part of a game - just think - in 40 years time supporters will be looking at a two minute clip of today's exciting 3-2 win and complaining that the 2059 Rovers side is not producing entertainment of the same standard

They must be different Evertonians from the ones who were sending out anti-Allardyce chants when he was their manager - a case of thinking the grass on the other side is always greener

I don't need to watch clips - I was going to games in that era

In my view it is because the modern game is in many respects vastly superior to what was going on 30 to 40 years ago

The play offs were introduced for the end of the 1986-87 season so I don't think what you are saying is quite right. Nowhere do I say that I am happy with where we are. My original post today was in response to a supporter's claim that he was unmoved by us winning today's game with a late goal. I just find it hard to believe that a football supporter really thinks like that. Sitting down here in the South of England I was out of my chair for that winning goal.

I would agree with you that nearly all of the 1980s teams were better than the present side. OK ?

If football has changed for the worse why do more people go to games now ?

The 1970-71, 1978-79 and 2016-17 seasons

No - a fan of about 55 years standing trying to introduce a sense of perspective

Clearly it isn't great but what we have seen in the last two home games with two late wins - one from a goal down - is not the hallmark of a relegation side

No

And the mighty Wednesday