Please don't use sources I have to subscribe to just to read it. I'm not going to.

If they think they're getting 15 million for him at 30, I think they're in for a surprise.

Always the worst type of early cup draw, for me. Away, to a team at the same level. At least with higher level teams you get to test yourselves a bit, even though you're probably going out. The best early draws are at home to lower league teams, preferably poor ones. Best chance of progression, although the opportunity to risk that chance a bit to see what the youth players can do. Obviously the Dingles got exactly that kind of result.

I'm curious why you took out the categories that TA won in your first set of data.

We also need to take into consideration where any attempts to strengthen the defence will leave him.

I feel that our use of Wharton has probably done him a disservice. The level of League Two sides he has played for (promotion winners) after five separate loans down to that level, I don't know how we've failed to get him a League One loan this season, if not last. Ultimately, whilst he's turning out in League Two, he isn't going to get anywhere near our set-up. We really need players to be earning spurs at least a league below us. We can't expect a two league jump out of him at 22 really. Not in a position where you need experience and can cost you games in a heartbeat. I'm not saying there aren't exceptions, Raya played in the Championship for us a bit in the same season he was on loan in the Conference. But that's generally more when you have a very young star in the making and you just want to blood them in men's football a bit. He was only 17 if I recall, and it took until three seasons later to become a full regular, during which he wasn't loaned out again because he was on the fringe. Wharton played a couple of times for us in the Championship the same season he had his first loan. Then we got relegated and probably all expected to see him break through that year. He never got the chance beyond two cup games (and I seem to remember thinking he should have been given it at one point due to how we were defending) and went back out on loan. He was in and around the squad though, and you'd think a fringe player for the best team in League One (fuck Wigan) would be able to get a few games for a lower-end League One team. I dunno what we play at with our loan arrangements. We seem to fuck it up a lot more than other clubs. We usually send players two levels or less below where we are, meaning we'll never know if they're ready to threaten places at our level. Even then, we sometimes manage to land them at a club where they don't want to play them much or at all. I feel like we don't do enough research, ask these clubs the right questions, or put out enough feelers. In short though, it's hard to see Wharton making it at the club now. I feel like the only real chance is if, as another poster suggested, we recall him and send him to League One. However, that might not be best for the player himself, as if it doesn't work out for him there he might miss the chance to play games and develop for when he leaves us. I think we need to decide whether we still think he can make it here, and if we think there's a reasonable chance, get him to League One. Otherwise leave him be.

I count whatever the stats gatherers are counting. I'm not actually personally tallying these assists...

But overall this season, we have conceded 27 and they've shipped 25. You're right though, the home vs away stacks up better. However, the more stats stack up in our favour the more afraid I am!!

Do you feel he should make the bench ahead of Buckley? I get the impression that TM only sees room for one youth project at a time that he hasn't spent 7 million on. Especially in midfield, where he has stockpiled too many senior players to keep happy. And right back, where if anyone is dislodging Nyambe it'll be Captain Fantastic.

That settles it, we are losing. Too many stats in our favour. It's also forgetting the key one of average goals conceded.

Uh the amount I said he got last season, 7, made him the joint 20th highest assister in the league. The most anyone got was 14, followed by 12. The likes of Norwood only got one more. Nobody at Rovers got more. Next highest was Reed on 5. Again, I dispute that he doesn't assist often.

8 assists his first season, 7 last season. 1 so far this season but plenty of time to fix that. Not counting his League Cup assists (3 last season, 2 this). 16 league assists in two-and-a-bit years. I think that's an acceptable amount of creating for a lad who also notched 42 league goals in that time. You're also right about our shots on target being poor. Not Dack's fault if players can't finish what he sets them up for.

I wasn't saying he should be one of the top players in the world still. Just that he shouldn't be turning out in the Championship at 34 with his ability. You make a fair point about playing a lot of career games but I stand by that. Loads of players have managed up to and past his age and still played in the Prem, plenty of them with less footballing skill. He also has considerable star power which should sweeten any deal.

Very skillful. Any idea why they've let him go? Sounds like Rooney wants him to go to Derby. Argentinian so potential work permit issues. At 5 ft 3 he makes Arma look like a giant. And yet there was still a headed goal on his reel.

Wow, didn't realise they were signing him in January. The fact he is turning out in the Championship at 34, an age at which Ronaldo is still one of the two best players on the planet, goes to show he hasn't looked after himself enough. Not surprising really.

Friedel and Nelsen were both freebies. Which is astonishing when you think about it. Meanwhile, in the present day, we have Brereton for 7 million. And the jury is out on Gallagher at 5 million. So yeh, not sold on TM's scouting network either!

Interesting how many people are picking entirely midfielders and attackers. Not what we need if we were only getting three players.

Just seen the other results...the Brentford team we beat deservedly, showed exactly what you're supposed to do to Luton at home.

He is a prick. But plenty of people would say I am too! Plus I'm nearly 35 and injury-prone. I'll take a grand a week though, so I'm cheap as chips...

I lived down there too, in Newcastle-under-Lyme. Have to say, all the kids were wearing United, Liverpool, Chelsea jerseys etc when they were second tier, then suddenly they got promoted and everyone was a Stoke fan! Was some very clear fair-weathering/glory-hunting behaviour, but to be fair their attendances seem to have held up reasonably so far after returning to the second tier. Yeh generally pretty nice people though, even if my first time being called 'duck' by a fully-grown man was a little unsettling.

The last time I saw Vokes and Ince they were just too good for this level. Last time I saw Powell he'd be good backup for Dack. Diouf was rubbish for us but had that season where he hit 11 in the Prem. Looking at his career stats though, it seems that was a bit of an aberration in England (three good Bundesliga seasons before that though). On paper it doesn't seem like they should be doing as badly as all that, but reading what their fans are saying it seems they have a porous defence (sounds familiar) and don't work hard enough off the ball.

A few other choice comments from that thread... 'They passed it around nicely. Had good movement and generally looked like a side that had a plan. It is ott but to me it looked like they were playing a different sport. Streets ahead of us.' 'They were awful yet still passed it through our poor excuse of a midfield. They actually moved off the ball unlike our useless twats who stand next to the opposition in the vain hope they won’t get the ball.' On Dack: 'Dack was the best player I’ve seen this season but we put him under no pressure.' 'Didn’t even think he was their best player. Thought Lenihan and their right back were superb.' 'He completely controlled the game. Started just off the forward and when they went a goal ahead sat in midfield. Totally dominant against our static 'midfielders'.' 'Didn’t think he did much really. Neat and tidy on the ball but they have to carry him as he’s not one for doing much work off the ball. Would be very surprised if a Premier League club took a gamble on him.' 'Dack was a constant threat here too last season. Sadly, he is way above our midfielders, even though we have spent many millions.' 'Far and away the best player on show today, as a striker he kept coming deep, extra midfielder if you like, can’t remember him giving a ball away, always found space ( not difficult against us I suppose), scored of course and generally telling his team mates where to play the ball next after he laid ball off to them, all round fantastic display by him and he doesn’t even look like a footballer!!' 'Another reason why not playing a proper DM was a dreadful mistake.' Always interesting to see what fans of other teams think of your players, as they're looking for different things to what we are, and aren't emotionally invested or previously frustrated/enamoured by our players. The usual spectrum too, of some thinking Dack is nothing special whilst others think he looked fantastic and dominated the game, as well as one saying we were awful but others being steadily impressed with us. The bloke who said not playing a proper DM was a mistake is spot on. Every team in the league figured out last season that the best way to stop Dack is to put someone on him fairly tight and not give him any room. If you don't do that he'll wreak havoc between the lines. I don't know why Stoke forgot this lesson.

And Sky were saying it was Walton...

Just taking a look at Stoke's squad from today, and without having particularly followed the fates and form of some of these players in the last couple of years, it seems astonishing that they're second from bottom. Sam Vokes, Butland, Tom Ince, Joe Allen...Diouf and Nick Powell coming on as subs. What has gone wrong?

That's exactly when Rovers fans should expect zero points.