Elsewhere, Paul has commented on the decline of the quality of discussion on this board and others he participates in. It certainly is the case that this board is not is good as it once was- too many petty or ill-informed posts, knee-jerk goose steps and the countervailing arguments which often have precious little to do with the subject in hand. Not forgetting the terminally depressed (and depressing). Above all, it is frustrating that so few people bother to read what has been written. A few days ago, I posted a deliberately provocative football item and returned to see how the debate followed. In fact there was a string of childish one-liner posts as two members continued a fatuous argument from elsewhere. Interesting to see that the Lee Grooby official rovers.co.uk site in its nth incarnation seems to be a much better place to read intelligent informed discussion at the moment. I guess these things go in cycles.

Whilst we are talking about the inexplicable, nice to see the 2004/5 season start on Saturday (Inter-Toto preliminary round) before the 2003/4 season had ended (final of Euro 2004). The SPL showed its enormous strength in depth with Hibernians drawing at home to Vilnius.

Yes but you have also just said you have never heard of Joaquin, Reyes, Vicente or Exteberria. If that is true it makes your comments look ridiculous really doesn't it. right i have got my euro 2004 fansbook in hand,etxeberria plays for bilbao has 50 caps and scored 12 goals. joaquin sanchez? plays for real betis played 19 times and scored 2. these were before euro 2004 and the other 2 are not named unless they go under other names. so i now know a little about these spics,still no nothing about goped Waggy, Reyes is the kid Arsenal signed for £12m last January and scored several wonder goals for the Gunners as they walked away with the Premiership. I haven't heard of him either... Vicente plays for Valencia- Spanish Champs and mildly successful in Europe over the past three seasons. Current incumbent in the Spanish national side and appears in a number of lists for team of the tournament despite Spain's early exit. If we have the non=playing de Pedro of last season, we haven't solved the left wing problem. If de Pedro shows the Real Sociedad form which challenged Real Madrid for la Liga title to the last game of the season thirteen months ago...

Waggy, You can find similar posts from myself. The hard facts are we had a miserable season last time out, were in grave danger of relegation eight games from season's end with all Souey's failings plain for all to see, yet We avoided the drop by twelve points and the Board stuck by Souey. Now there is no question of Souey being fired unless we find ourselves in deep trouble as Christmas approaches. That is quite possible- a bad start is very much on the cards given the opening fixtures. A battling draw by tthe Baggies and we could have played very decent football and still only have one point after four games. However, I think there is a more than decent chance that we start next season with a squad and team which is overall appreciably stronger than the one that finished sixth two seasons ago. Whether Souness has learnt from his period of self-reflection, whether the captaincy and back-room changes will pay off remain to be seen. I for one am willing to give the guy a decent chance.

Gerald Krasner has been quoted today that the Milner sale is the first of many departures and that he wants the Leeds wage bill below £20m a year by the end of this week. I would say it is looking good for those (myself included) who will be happy to have Matteo at Ewood. Incidentally, Alan Smith must be delighted to find out that he is being offered as a makeweight in the ManU bid for Rooney.

So that is Duffers new role now they have signed van Robben...?

Five Live has been reporting a bid of £5m for Jeremy and J Cole - seems cheap? Not when you consider they will be earning 5m a year in wages. As one of the very few clubs able to pay those types of wages, Spuds are joining Boro as the place where high paid cast-offs confirm their status as failures.

I wonder how long Peter Kenyon will last at Chelski? So far this summer, every transfer objective has rejected them except for a £13m full back who is so good, he has been dropped by Portugal! Meantime Spuds sre sniffing around Joe Cole and various other likely victims of the Mourinho axe.

There is no doubt that Dickov was enormously popular with the Leicester supporters. The good news for Rovers is that Dickov will set a level of determination nd commitment below which our established forwards cannot fall without being replaced. I should imagine at this stage, Souness is thinking in terms of Cole and Stead starting games with Dickov being introduced with 20 minutes to go to produce new problems for the opposition defenders.

Sorry to say this guys but I feel totally philosophical about the England defeat now. Whereas as big a defeat for Rovers and I would still be feeling gutted three days later.

The door is wide open for Janathan Stead if he keeps up the performance level he was showing in the second half of last season. He has the height as well as the close control to cause all kinds of problems to most defences.

There seems to be an inconsistency between the information publicly given out by the club at the time of the Dunn and Duff transfers and what the Fans' Football Forum is being told. Dunn's transfer was apparently stalled whilst the Rovers negotiated away the Brum clauses tying payment to Brum survival in the Prem. This was widely reported at the time of the transfer and whilst contingency payment clauses remained relating to the player's performance/achievement, I clearly recall the Rovers announcing that the deal was not dependent on Brum staying up. Similarly, the Duff deal was hailed by the club as being all cash with Chelsea meeting all incidental costs. Unfortunately, the timing of the transfer deals relative to the Club's financial year end means it will be difficult to see which version (or perhaps most likely, something in between) turned out to be correct.

I agree with the comments that the big tournaments at national level once every two years are very special. The great shame about last night's exit is that it has come at least one game too early to become a big enough football mania to drive the non-committed to feel sufficiently committed to buy Rovers Season tickets.

Sorry to have been proven correct

Portugal are going to have to miss their's- did you see Calamity flap at that cross?

Phil Neville? Well if he is not good enough for Man U Reserves, he's good enough for England- obvious isn't it?

Revidge, you have obviously forgotten Rovers received £17.7m cash on the nail with no deductions for Duff. Your sums don't work.

The crowd will be evens. Beckham's miss in the shoot out will mean he will never return to English Prem football.

After all the "big" countries getting through the qualifiers for Euro 2004 unscathed and only Latvia beting Turkey ranking as the only surprise in the final eliminators, I had expected the "big" countries to have made the last eight with the possible exception of England. Its going to get really interesting now with size and reputation counting for nothing. Czech Republic v Sweden final?

Thursday night's match has the capacity to be one of the all time great games. I cannot see England containing Portuguese attacks on either flank and equally expect England's midfielders and forwards to be too mobile for the Portuguese to cope with. Add in massive levels of sense of destiny (Portugal at home plus done the "difficult" one knocking out Spain and England in with a chance of winning something) and I think this will be a cracker with loads of goal mouth incident. Would not be surprised if either side took an early 2-0 lead and for the loosing side to produce an inspired fight back. If England are to win, expect Beckham to hog the Friday morning headlines. He either has to raise his game considerably above the mundane level he has shown so far or Portugal will over-run us once too often. Our passing is too poor to play keep ball against the Portuguese so Beckham will have to produce a non-stop running display combined with hitting passes that really hurt the opposition. That said, if England do get through, the bogey country Sweden will be waiting for us in the semi-final.

England are doing much better than I expected, but... Calamity James for the first goal Three pieces of Keystone Cops defending went unpunished by the Croatians last night. Phil Neville made the worst substitute appearance since Ali Diao (George Weah's "cousin") Beckham? Portugal in the last eight is a huge match- the home team have more than enough individual talent to beat us but at least the English players are used to nullifying Ronaldo. For once, my gut feel is for England to go through- kiss of death! With Spain out, Italy Totti-ing and Germany in trouble, there could be an unexpected opponent at the semi-final stage.

I think I read he is expected to sign when he returns from holiday in two weeks' time. No point in the Rovers paying his wages or Leeds paying his pay-off cheque any earlier than absolutely neccessary.

Did Phil Neville do anything to help England's cause when he came on? A foul first attempt at a touch and three ludicrously misplaced passes. Apart from that a good game and a decent performance.

Love these one liners- The Italians losing Totti will be the making of their Euro campaign. They will now be dangerous because they will become a team again. The Germans have looked better than I expected- man for man not that much worse than England to be incapable of turning us over in a one-off. The Dutch might hate each other but would hate us even more if we have to play them. They have nine of the best players in the tournament and two donkeys. Unfortunately we are not strong enough in the wide positions to exploit the places where their donkeys play. The Spaniards are man for man the best squad in the tournament. One day they will bring it altogether- could be our bad luck that day is in the next round against us. If it is, we're out. The Czechs are still warming up. They will be hot by the time the draw would bring us together. The Greeks will know that the odds on England being rescued from a deserved beating from them by a second 95th minute Beckham free kick are very long indeed- especially as the game will not be at Old Trafford. Portugal are looking far less than the sum of their parts- if playing England at home doesn't motivate them to produce the goods, nothing will. You forgot the Swedes- definitely the dark horses, beating England is their favourite party piece. Look at the record book. Remember what happened the game after England got a flattering 3-0 winning scoreline at the World Cup?

Siriwan, I know what you mean about Bilbao- that is heavy industry. The point I was making is that the road out of San Sebastian towards the French border has same sort of built up/industrial look as driving along Philips Road in Blackburn.