Theres obviously a mental fragility and a weakness which is causing us to throw away over 20 points from winning positions, and cause us to surrender as soon as we sense danger, weve been hammered quite a few times with no resistance for a team harbouring play off ambitions. You look last year, once we got set we became incredibly ruthless and clinical, whats changed? Today was a 2 nil lead on the back of 4 wins so theres no reason for the collapse. Was it just that we had enough quality in League 1 terms that our mental strength wasnt tested too often? When things are going well the team spirit is unquestionable but thats when its easy to stick together.

Watched the game and simply an absolute disgrace. Mowbray bleats on about team spirit and having a good group which im sure it is to some degree but you wouldnt have them in the trenches with you. Mentally weak, collapse at the very hint of danger and I think thats over 20 points surrendered from winning positions which is quite frankly embarassing. Rayas is always a couple of games from a game changing error. Not a reliable promotion chasing keeper. Bennett is never a right back, I get not to change a winning team but Nyambe HAS to start next time. The other 3 defenders also very poor. Travis had a shocker and Evans was poor alongside him. Reed was ok first half and Armstrong a solitary bright spark really. Our reliance on Dack and Graham and the defence by those suggesting we were right to keep our powder dry in January may be made to look foolish if the pair are injured. Brereton was actually not that bad but he never looked threatening and Nuttall is not up to it, he seemed like a bit of a loose cannon too and his body language was poor. Conway another bizarre sub.

It wasnt specifically aimed at you, I just dont understand how Mowbray and Waggott seem to be paired together, when one has made a blatant difference in turning us around and the other I am still in the dark about.

We were on the up and already had started signing younger players (Dack, Samuel, Nuttall etc) before he came. Im not convinced he has made much tangible difference to that or if he is, I would like specifics.

Presume Reed also comes under the category "jury still out" then? Armstrong cannot be judged on his loan spell last season. Wasnt here long enough to be judged.

Again, I am unsure what gives Waggott a right to much if any of the credit. The main reason that makes everything seem so much rosier is results. Mowbray after a shaky period to allow the team to gel and adapt to League 1 had already started to generate a good run of results months before Waggott's arrival, indeed he joined either deep into or just following our run of 6 wins just before Christmas if my memory serves me well. By far the best signing of Mowbrays tenure was very much proving to be the catalyst and the whole mood had very much turned for the better. The things he can be judged directly on, ticketing a primary example, he is very much open to criticism on.

That last post was hardly a series of questions. Just correcting you that the groans you hear after Brereton does something wrong is the sort of reaction saved especially for him, and not repeated when anyone else messes up. Nor is it abuse. I also dont understand how a constant downplaying of any proper knowledge on what exactly Brereton is good at (based on not enough game time) can go hand in hand with such confidence that he will prove a success.

In regards to this issue, it seems Waggott is in the right. But I am still none the wiser as to why people think he has done such a good job. Can people please enlighten me as to what differences he has made as an individual. Bar his ticketing policies which I am very critical of. It is often said that "Mowbray and Waggott have turned around the club," to me only one of those definitely warrants being in that sentence. We was well on our way back (I think in the midst of a 6 game winning run and starting to really fire) before Waggott stepped foot in Ewood Park. Mowbray is the reason behind our up turn, not Mowbray and Waggott.

"I am merely pointing out that moaning/groaning is an example of NOT being behind a player. and ... However, if you can't hear the overall noise whenever he makes a mistake, loose pass, loses possession - id suggest getting some hearing aids - and if you think all 19 year old lads have thick skin for that - you'd be wrong." Im going to focus on these 2 quotes. If you feel that considers not being behind Brereton, and you think that is a reaction saved specially for Brereton, then I will have to strongly disagree. Whenever anyone makes a mistake, or does something wrong that impacts negatively on our team, the natural, impulsive reaction is to be frustrated. If you think that only applies to Brereton then you are sadly mistaken, the only reason almost everything he does seems to cause frustration is because sadly much of what he does has not come off. For example, when he had a very presentable chance against Newcastle and skewed it out for a throw in, But likewise, when Dack missed that sitter in extra time, the golden boy would have been "subjected" to the exact same sort of reaction. When Raya decided to run stupidly out of his goal and ended up giving away a penalty against Birmingham, the same reaction. Its just a normal reaction, one of frustration, seen at every single ground, I'm watching Spurs now and Lucas Moura just headed a sitter wide, que groans. If you consider groans when Brereton makes a mistake to be "not being behind him" then you are totally wrong. In fact, the applause he got (that you seem to now be considering as to whether it was relief and sarcasm, it wasnt and Brereton didnt think it was hence him embracing it and turning round to clap all stands as he went off) is an example that the fans are behind him like anyone else. If the fans did something other than warmly applaud him, then because it wasnt on the back of a miss, a bad touch, a misplaced pass, it would have been far more pre-meditated and you would have had a point. "To summarise what I said about his ability, the key part; - its too early to say exactly what he has or hasn't." - you have to be fair suggested you cant be certain that he will be a success. But you seem pretty sure that you think he will be, but what tangible evidence or reasoning do you have to support this? "Looks to strike a ball well (see preston/bournemouth disallowed goals) can run with the ball, looks strong, and gets into the right positions largely" - to be fair the 2 finishes you mention were smart ones but his last 2 presentable chances have ended up for an opposition throw in. But I totally disagree that he gets into the right positions. He rarely gets into goalscoring positions, and when players have had the ball wide, I've repeatedly been frustrated by his reluctance to get into the box. Contrast to Nuttall, he has an obvious knack of getting into the right positions, and its night and day between the 2. I also disagree that he looks strong, for me he is incredibly weak and needs to improve that side of things in the gym. I do suspect that his game is based on running with the ball, I have seen flickers that its were his strengths lie, so I can give you that. And I dont think his lack of desperation to impress in terms of not chasing down, not jumping for headers, things like that can really be tolerated. "if you read back, I also said I think he is second guessing most things at the moment, being used out of position and not quite up to the intensity that TM wants." - the out of position line has worn a bit thin in that, bar the Newcastle game, the majority of his game time in the last couple of months has been in a central role. Strangely, when Mowbray said he doesnt see him as a striker yet, from that moment I noticed that he seemed to be used centrally far more often. I was at Bramall Lane and didnt see anything of the sort, but he started that game so wasnt warming up on the touchline!

As an aside, I dont understand anyone who goes to a football match and choosing to view it behind a little screen but there you go.

Out of curiosity. Do you ever moan or swear to your mate if one of our players misses a good chance or makes a mistake? As a natural reaction, "for fucks sake" "hows he missed that" etc etc. Not audible to the players, just at talking loudness? I cant comment on these supposed sick comments seeing as you wont even suggest what exactly they are.

You wouldnt be banned if it was a quote and any swearing was asterixed out. What did you hear? And by how many?

Depends what you consider to be "behind him." If its someone calling Brereton shit to their mate alongside them, thats not abuse. If its someone or some people groaning when a shot or a touch goes wrong, again thats not abuse. Him going off 5 minutes after skewing a shot out for a throw in, would surely be the perfect time to show a player they have not got the backing of the fans. Warm applause suggest that he does. As @Stuart says you will get the odd idiot everywhere but that doesnt represent the whole fan base. Why have you not replied to my earlier post to you about the attributes he has shown, about actual constructive analysis of the player? Same reply applies to @chaddyrovers.

At games, people get behind everyone. He'd be easier to warm to still if he gave every drop. Lets hope his Rovers career takes off but we can only judge on what weve seen.

Thanks for the tangible attributes you feel he has. To be honest, I have yet to see evidence of most of it, His first touch is really loose, and I can only recall his disallowed goal at Deepdale as evidence of good technique. He rarely gets into goalscoring positions and the last 3 shots I recall him having are a totally misjudged free header and 2 shots that went out for a throw in. I wouldnt describe him as quick but I do suspect that if there is an area to build around, he does seem to want to travel with the ball. Alot of patience is wittled away when the work rate is questionable too.

The reason there is less debate about successful signings is not because everyone is desperate to moan and whinge, its because there is very little scope for discussion about something everyone agrees on. Take Dack. Mowbray gets plenty of praise for his signing but how much discussion can you get. "Dacks been an unbelievable signing." "100% agree." End of discussion. Armstrong has thrived in the last month but has been patchy overall and poor in the main prior to 2019 but I am very happy to have him.

Most of the defence regarding the Brereton deal, predominantly from @Biz and @S8 & Blue is based on buzzwords such as "time" "patience" and "faith" which is fair enough to a certain degree but what have you actually seen in the way of tangible attributes from an admittedly small sample in terms of game time, or had you seen in his time previous to joining, to suggest that with time and patience, that he will/could/might prove to be a positive signing, and justify some of the quotes I have taken from the last few pages: Youve all mentioned other players but there was never any doubt that there was something in their armoury to suggest there was something there, some potential, however raw, to build on. Take Armstrong, pre-2018 in the main his form was poor I would argue, he hadnt contributed enough goals or assists, he was poor much more often than he was good, Leeds and Rotherham at home being the exceptions really. But there was always a hope, because he had obvious attributes and potential. He is lightning fast, he has proven in the past that he is a very good finisher, therefore he was persisted with, starting most weeks. Then you move on to Nuttall. I have doubts that he will become a Championship striker, but he has impressed me becoming 2nd choice after seemingly being destined to go out on loan, and he also has something to him. He has a knack of getting into goalscoring positions, and a habit of being ready for tap ins and in the case of Oxford and Millwall away, being in the right place for the ball to rebound off him and go in. Is that a fluke? Perhaps somewhat, but he knows where to be to get goals. Then theres Travis, he has played very few games, but his attributes were obvious instantly, composed on the ball, energetic and tenacious. All I ask is, what is Brereton good at, what are his raw attributes that can be moulded into a 7m striker at any point during his Rovers career, or even a competent one? Theres also some desperation in trying to make it seem like people expect too much, too soon. Danny Graham has been our best player this season for me, all (well all but one) appreciate how good hes been, therefore Brereton could only realistically be expected to be pushing Graham as much as he can, desperately trying (when he comes on he doesnt scream of a young lad desperate to impress, ducking out of headers and "pressing" half arsed) to impress, impacting when he can, being first in line when Graham is injured or tired. Modest expectations for a 7m striker with over 50 appearances in the Championship, dont you think? His lack of game time is somewhat self inflicted too, he has shown nothing when he has been on the pitch and thus fallen further down the pecking order. Theres seemingly also a need to make the 7m price tag seem like a burden but in some ways I think its beneficial, without it, would anyone be suggesting that he has potential with time?! And would he make every matchday squad on merit without the circumstances surrounding his arrival? Also @Biz youve again pleaded for the enormous price tag to be ignored but that isnt realistic and it isnt balanced. The signing of Dack from Gillingham for a 6 figure amount is universally seen as a masterstroke. Mowbray has also received plenty of praise for picking up Rodwell off the scrapheap on a free following the recent run of form. You cant praise Mowbray for excellent, shrewd signings and not judge the most expensive signing based on his cost, it doesnt work like that.

Mowbray himself said that he wanted a striker, that he felt he was a striker short and am sure that he is himself dissapointed that we couldnt bring one in. Spurious links to big name targets obviously dont help expectations I concede. I personally think that the 7 figure fee quoted by Rich Sharpe as to how much the loans (fee and wages) would have cost would have been a worthwhile small risk considering our position. Sign a proven striker to get us 10 goals extra could be the difference between 6th (with potential access to a promotion windfall) and 10th. You seem to think its "over entitled" to harbour hopes for a play off push. I consider it just about realistic and an acknowledgment that there IS a lot to be happy about (players and manager) with us so close to the top 6, that rather than settling for safety and stability, fans are hoping for extra firepower (an injury to Graham and we are goosed) to give us a potential leg up to overachieve, without losing sight of the fact that finishing just beyond the top 6 would still be a positive season even if we dont quite make it. Fine line between ambition and over entitlement. You are exaggerating and using poetic license in your comments regarding lack of ambition and ability to recruit. Very valid criticisms about the impact of our 7m striker and also suggestions as to us needing to broaden our search beyond the same few names and potentially even abroad are fair and the latter is something Mowbray himself has suggested that he is looking to explore today.

Raya Bennett Lenihan Rodwell Bell Evans Travis Reed Dack Armstrong Graham Subs: Leutweiler, Nyambe, Williams, Smallwood, Rothwell, Nuttall, Chapman (Conway if Chapman deemed too unfit)

There are duds and gems in equal measure wherever you look, my point was that its better to choose from a bigger pool and that English playees can be overpriced (Brereton a prime example) and was shot down for it as if it was a character assassination on Mowbray. Even he has admitted it today. Obviously it is still difficult and risky to find the right players wherever you look but at least you arent seemingly focusing on predominantly ex loanees. People seem to think that those championing widening our recruitment scope as basing it only on successful signings from abroad but that is nonsense. The Portugal example you give is flawed in that it was obviously not all above board.

Poor window if we arent signing anyone and one that we will end weaker than we started, with Downing and Palmer no longer options, and Chapman seemingly not fit any time soon. Have to worry about any injury to Graham potentially de-railing us.

We can assume that the Brereton deal was a significant one, the fee of 7m is regularly banded around by primary sources. What we cannot assume is the payment terms, when the installments are due, how much is guaranteed, his wages or any other additional fees. Im not sure how much it matters either, if its in installments or all at once it will still cost us the same, and with a fee of such signifance even a million either side doesnt really change anything, even if he cost say 5m that would still be very expensive. You havent provided a view or a perspective at all with your "information." A mystery "colleague" with unknown "connections" has told you "details" about the deal which you are unwilling to share, and I suspect dont know yourself. This is far from the first time you have given cryptic "information" on something seemingly done to make you seem like you know more than you do.

I am critical of the Brereton deal as are you but cryptic nonsense doesnt support any argument.

I am not saying that signing players from abroad is a risk free strategy, there will be duds everywhere. My point is the more players we are considering, and the bigger pool we are picking from, the more beneficial it will be for us. A player with equal "potential" as Brereton signed from overseas would almost certainly cost a much more reasonable fee. It also worries me that our primary targets seem to be former players, despite their obvious flaws/limitations (Chapmans injuries for example) which for me highlights a lack of variation and imagination. I never expect that we will have a perfect record in the transfer market either, obviously I am going to show examples of successful transfers from abroad to back up my point, but that point is that picking players from a bigger pool is better than being limited to where we buy from, not that signing from abroad is guaranteed to be more successful. I have never doubted that some of the business we have done is good.

But that implies that if we started looking at players from abroad, that we would totally neglect the English market! The key is to find the best players possible wherever they are, but having a bigger pool to pick from is only going to be an advantage. I suspected that Mowbray was restricted in terms of perhaps a limited scouting network but recent quotes suggest he is uneasy with the idea of bringing in players from abroad. Look at Norwich, they have signed Pukki, Leitner and Onel Hernandez but also the likes of Rhodes and Hanley, and Brentford signed Maupay and partnered him with Watkins from Exeter, its getting a nice mix. You look at the Brereton deal, I refuse to accept that across Europe we couldnt find an alternative for that amount of money who would offered so much more so far. And going for the likes of Chapman and seemingly Gallagher again seems incredibly restricted and unimaginative.