Huddersfield and Cardiff are in danger of being cut adrift. Think youd struggle to argue against the fact that the current bottom 3 are the 3 worst squads in the league. Wagner did such a good job to get Huddersfield promoted, made some shrewd signings at Championship level, Ward, Mooy, Palmer and Brown all on loan and players like Lowe, Schindler and Kachunga who were signed for cheap using Wagners knowledge of the Bundesliga, and they played high intensity football and really impressed and surprised that season. They did have quite a few players already there who were important who knew English football so the clever foreign buys made for a perfect mix. They did really well to stay up but I cant see them being so lucky this time out. I feel like Wagner has, with a lot of money spent, has wasted too much on random foreign players who have yet to show anything and I see them either 19th or 20th this season. Warnock at Cardiff seems to have gone with the attitude of, we will struggle anyway, lets sign some top Championship players, people like Reid and Cunningham, we will give it a go and we go back down we will be ready for a quick attempt at getting back. Not sure its the wisest attitude but who knows. Outclassed by City but youd expect that.

Understand Bruces job should be at risk but I disagree that Carvalhal would be a good appointment, hes a bit of a chancer. They shouldnt appoint a director of football, if they are going to make a change they should give whoever they appoint the license to sign who he wants in the window. Agreed that Stoke have various problems but someone like McCarthy could come in and get the most out of what hes got, as he did at Ipswich. I agree that Hirst shouldnt be sacked now but you cant just say give him the season and hell to the consequences. If its 2 months down the line and your looking ahead to December with no signs of improvement and at risk of being cut adrift, theyd need to make a change. And on McCarthy, I wonder if them fans now realise what a big loss he is to them, and what a good job he did there. And on Potter, hes having to do it that way due to a lack of money.

I didnt think he even looked tired, but he was so good yesterday, as you acknowledged. For me he was a class above anyone on that pitch. As soon as he goes off we cant hold the ball up. I thought Brereton (and the other subs to be fair) was poor in the last 10 minutes and hes had 3 cameos now where in each hes looked sluggish, half-arsed and unable to hold the ball up. There was once when he threw himself over, won a soft free kick and literally instantly gave it back to Stoke, he also didnt seem to properly challenge for the ball in the air. That said, I dont think anyone could have hand picked 3 more difficult introductions, against Bristol City when they were building a head of steam, against Villa out of position and then yesterday when we had just collapsed and let in 2. Would love for him to play 90 minutes against Bournemouth and score a goal or 2. That said, in terms of the League, Graham has the shirt and it will be difficult for Brereton to get it off him anytime soon.

Carvalhal is a crap manager. They should go for the best manager available and not solely pick based on nationality, although I am not sure how you know either way. No director of football either. Not sure who would be best for that job. Dont see why Smith would go to Stoke. May be a job for McCarthy, plenty of experienced players but ones who seemingly cannot stop letting in goals. Ipswich shouldnt have sacked McCarthy as many said and now they are paying the price. Ipswich spent a decent amount albeit selling a few too and its not working for them. Whilst I wouldnt sack Hirst yet, you cant just say give him the season, if he carries on losing games a point will come where they need a change to give them a chance of survival. And anyone who gives Lambert a job again is asking for trouble, but the fans will never accept him anyway after his time at Norwich.

Not sure hed be tempted or realistic.

Can see Mick McCarthy getting a call from someone soon.

Would have to say that what I saw today was the best 80 minute and worst 10 minute spell of Mowbrays era wrapped into one afternoon. Thought his team was too defensive when named but it was proved to be spot on, that said, his use of subs was far too late when we were clearly tiring. Danny Graham belied the doubters of his fitness and put in an absolutely incredible performance, beside his goal, his general hold up, leading the line, work rate, everything was exceptional. Bennett put in his usual bag of effort and work rate but I often question what he does going forward but that cant be levelled at him today. Very good performance. Dack again wasnt at his very best but he is still such a good player and contributes so regularly with goals and assists. Hope he is ok as we certainly need him. Reed was good and although it was right to play him Evans and Smallwood, who all ran the game, obviously in most games we dont need all 3. It worked very welll today though. Centre back, we missed Mulgrew at the end to calm us down, Lenihan very rash for the penalty as he can be, thought Williams was better but for 80 minutes they were both very good. Would drop Bell assuming Mulgrew is back next week. Thought both full backs were poor, and the subs were really poor albeit in difficult circumstances, Brereton again looked sluggish and half-arsed, and Rothwell wasted a key pass. Mowbray dismissed the last 10 minutes publically but privately I hope he isnt in denial, our game management this season has been our achilles heel and needs to be much better. Very strange day but overall a superb result.

Cant see it. Theyve made some good signings at a fraction of our budget and are so well drilled. Nick Powell is a quality player underrated amidst all the Dack comparisons and Windass is a shrewd signing. Easy to dislike manager but they should do well this season.

Apparrently one was Armstrong but I hate when managers and chairmen come out and say stuff like that after the window. Its just empty words, if they were serious about spending that money then they would have gone elsewhere. All being said, whilst Preston may struggle to recover enough to linger around the play offs, they will be fine and have a good squad at this level. Struggling with injuries, suspension and loss of form but it will change.

Considering them comments and the inability of our other players who have been tried wide (wide players wouldnt be accurate as we dont have them) to nail down a starting spot, I would be very surprised and dissapointed to see Rothwell on the bench tomorrow.

Going to be a tough game again. Looking forward to it and hope we perform better than on Tuesday night and get the 3 points. Raya Nyambe Lenihan Mulgrew Williams Reed Evans Bennett Dack Rothwell Graham Subs: Leutwiler, Bell, Smallwood, Palmer, Armstrong, Brereton, Downing

I agree that overall judgements on him shouldnt be made. Writing him off totally, or saying he will definitely be a success. Obviously we have nowhere near enough evidence to make a final critique. My point is more that judgements on individual games can and will be made. He was crap v Villa and theres nothing wrong with saying so. As long as that isnt de-contextualised into an overall judgement. There are a lot of things to potentially be optimistic about regarding Brereton, and also plenty of things to be concerned about. We will see in time how they play out. I personally havent seen anyone like that but fair enough if you have.

Youve expressed 3 primary reservations that you have about the deal, none of which are based on a knee jerk reaction to a couple of poor cameos: - Price tag and use of funds baring in mind other weaknesses in the squad - Goal record - Age and readiness to perform immediately I think they are all fair concerns, as long as you arent saying hes a bad signing or a poor player which you arent.

I think that the majority of supporters have similar viewpoints to you on Nyambe. I gave examples, especially Evans who people rate after people have previously said he is not up to it, after a series of good performances. And never have they at the ground, only on an internet messageboard. Im not saying he will be a bad signing, and im not convinced that many if any are righting him off, just expressing concerns. I would agree, my main issue is with the phrase "dont judge him yet" which is meaningless.

I do agree with many of your points, notably that Brereton will improve with time, that he is part of a young, vibrant core (important to appreciate the experience of the likes of Mulgrew and Graham too however) and I think most if not all would agree with that. My sole point was in regards to judging him after every game, everyone gets judged on every performance and thats how it will always be. Call a spade a spade, if someone plays poorly, as I and many others thought he did on Saturday, he will be judged as such. If he or anyone else plays well, they will be praised. I think the majority of fans have the ability to adapt their view from week to week, season to season. Look at Corry Evans, the most maligned player in the squad ahead of the season. Hes been given unanimous praise for his first 8 games this season. I thought Nyambe was a massive liability at one point, now I think he is a very competent full back. Dacks our best player and had a stinker the other night. Im not sure that your comment on implying that the fans will get on Breretons back is fair either.

I disagree if you have constructive reasoning behind such an opinion. Brereton has a poor goal record for example, therefore questions may be raised about that. That said, theres a lot of potentially exciting aspects to the signing. If Brereton scores the winner on Saturday and plays well, he will be judged positively on that individual performance, and judged negatively should he play poorly. Like anyone else.

We need to remove this notion whereby we will ever get to the stage where a player will play and supporters will prevent their natural instinct from forming an opinion on that particular performance. Whether the player has been here for 10 years or half an hour. As long as people dont accompany it with things like hes a waste of money based on that solitary cameo, then theres nothing wrong with it at all. It goes without saying that he is not fully fit, didnt play in his natural position and wont have fully settled, but he played crap, just as on Saturday Armstrong and Lenihan did, whereas Mulgrew and Smallwood played well. The people who have given examples from Forest are basing it almost exclusively on video footage of his best bits. His goal record suggests that the consistency clearly isnt there yet, and I have read plenty of both positives and doubts about the player from Forest fans, 2 of which, that he throws himself over a lot and that he is next to useless out wide were both in show in that cameo. The deal in the main was brought with inquisitive excitement but it goes with the territory of a massive fee to expect that to be taken into account. But in his only 2 cameos, in particular on Saturday when the game was in the balance unlike the lost cause at Bristol, that is our only possible judgement grounds in a Rovers shirt and in the relevant place, it is valid to state if people think he was poor. You dont have to have a list of alternatives to be able to judge a player. That said, like I have said on other threads, my view on Brereton is unchanged really overall despite a very poor cameo on Saturday due to a series of mitigating circumstances.

I personally think you are being incredibly kind to him! Dont recall these nice touches and aeriel duals he won. That said, agree on him out wide being pointless and that for me, he is ahead of Armstrong (based on Armstrongs poor performances) and behind Graham.

I think you are reading into said comments out of the context of what they are, judgements of an individual performance. People judge every player on every performance, thats the whole point of individual match threads. Brereton was really poor when he came on v Villa and looked sluggish and kept throwing himself over. You cant expect people to not judge player performances. That said, Brereton isnt fully match fit and crucially he was out of position. But his performance was poor, people arent going to come on after the Villa game and say, Mulgrew was good, great goal by Dack, Raya at fault for the goal, Lenihan all over the place, midfield much improved, ie go through the team and then go Brereton I refuse to comment on yet. If anyone is saying hes a waste of money or a bad signing then it goes without saying saying that they are massively overreacting. But I havent seen any quotes suggesting that. Im guessing the Kevin Davies thing you mention was a reference to a comparison someone has made. If so, again thats unfair.Saying he played poorly in a match or saying hes a bad signing are 2 totally different things. And its impossible to totally ignore the price tag when it was such a massive amount of money. I think in general, the discussion about his signing has been more so the type of player that he is. Just because he is 6 foot odd doesnt make him a targetman.

That doesnt mean he can ever be an effective target man. People thought Sam Gallagher was a target man but he jumped at 5 foot 5. Breretons main asset is his pace and ability to go in behind. Think this is unfair, as @K-Hod explained much more clearly than I could! Youve in essence done the same to Armstrong on another thread, saying hes a 1 good game in 10 type, after a half season in which he was consistently excellent in the bank. People are just commenting on his performances thus far, which have been few and far between and obviously not indicative on the level of success he will or wont have here. No one is saying theyve seen enough but just like people said Reeds cameos have been promising, Rothwells cameos have been promising, Brereton against Villa was poor albeit out of position. Overall im still none the wiser about how well he will do here but for now Graham deserves the shirt more.

He was best for us when on his own with someone like Dunn as a 10. That said he proved here he can score goals regardless as long as he gets game time.

Ewood legend is an exaggeration in the extreme.

We need to get every last minute that he can give us. He is still crucial at his age. Like I said, is there much difference between half an hour at the end or 60 minutes and taking him off, if he cant do any more? So you think 9 players played well and 2 were solely to blame for being outplayed? Fair enough, but Swansea didnt score so im not sure how you can justify replicating their approach. My apologies, brilliant team. And I hope the irony of you pointing out spelling errors isnt lost on you.

He had 2 or 3 moments where he caused blind panic, where I had my heart in my mouth, particularly when he spilt the ball in the first half in a comedy of consecutive errors. His distribution was horrific and a big contributing factor in the wave of attacks for Derby as we struggled for a kick. Hes very, very young for a keeper, but im judging him on his performances, and I wouldnt like to defend in front of him due to his eccentric nature. I am not saying we should play Leutwiler, or that he doesnt have potential, or that he isnt capable of very good saves. There was a lot of last ditch defending because as a team, we failed to maintain possession, we were reckless in our pressing, we failed to manage the game effectively by slowing it down, the ball kept coming back because there was no out ball in attack, and too many individuals were having an off day and not contributing. I dont doubt that Derby are one of the better teams in the division but we made it easy for them to slaughter us for 60 minutes, until they ran out of ideas and we improved. It was an incredibly lucky point but one that as a result, not taking into account performance, is a good one. We didnt play well as a team chaddy, it was along with Bristol City a performance that was far below the standards we have set, which has seen us very competitive in our other games and picking up points in them all. That said, we showed a lot of spirit that I never doubted was there, that was possibly, aside from the result, the only positive. And your Evans comment "seems a little over critical for my view"

I dont have a clue chaddy, and I havnt got the time to look it up for you. If he tires, bring him off sure but he is a crucial player. The aim was to play on the counter attack yesterday and nothing stuck until we brought on our best striker. His introduction made a massive difference. You seem reluctant to admit he is such an important player, ever since last season when you repeatedly wrote him off. I dont want us to cause problems like Swansea did, and not score a single goal! How do you know they caused them such problems? I never said Stoke are a brilliant team but their central midfield is far superior, as was Derbys, and we dont want them to dominate in the same way. We need that out ball.