[Archived] Johann Vogel

[herbergeehh]

Allowed by JW to talk to other clubs, according to his agent. (Tribalfootball)

I have trouble accepting this, after seeing him last year, and after NOT seeing him this year. With the current squad and the giant hole in central midfield - I've been thinking Vogel is the man to fill it. Ince clearly doesn't think so, and I just wonder why.

Views?

No search engine at the moment, couldn't find the other Vogel thread.

[mattyboy6000]

Allowed by JW to talk to other clubs, according to his agent. (Tribalfootball)

I have trouble accepting this, after seeing him last year, and after NOT seeing him this year. With the current squad and the giant hole in central midfield - I've been thinking Vogel is the man to fill it. Ince clearly doesn't think so, and I just wonder why.

Views?

No search engine at the moment, couldn't find the other Vogel thread.

he's a tidy player, i thought he did ok last season.

[Majiball]

I'm not surprised at all by this, I remember being told in response to some of my first posts on here that Vogel would be our holding player and we did not need someone like Grella to come in. He's tidy and can pass the ball but little else, guess Ince feels the same, kinda like a lesser Tugay.

Horses for courses and all that.

[philipl]

Agreed.

I think he appeared in 6 games and in 4 of those played very well- keeping the ball moving, passing accurately, getting in the right positions.

Was a bit lightweight and over-powered but he was making the adjustment from 18 months out of the game to his first taste of Premier League football.

With Dunn out injured and Tugay 38, it is a bonkers decision not to keep Vogel.

[RibbleValleyRover]

I thought he did ok last season especially as he wasn't up to full fitness and was lacking a bit of match sharpness. There was one game in particular where I thought he could be a great addition to the squad, i think it was against United?

Disappointed he hasn't been given a chance with the new manager.

[Amo]

Ince thinks he's just some Johnny Foreigner in the squad. That's why.

[dingles staying down 4ever]

I thought he did ok last season especially as he wasn't up to full fitness and was lacking a bit of match sharpness. There was one game in particular where I thought he could be a great addition to the squad, i think it was against United?

Disappointed he hasn't been given a chance with the new manager.

Personally i thought he was our mom against Man U last season until he tired. Once he tired United got on top.

[John]

I thought he did excellent last season, especially considering he was out of the game for so long. He has one key asset which we don't really have when looking at our current midfielders, he can pass the football accurately and forward. He can also keep the ball well.

I was looking forward to seeing him with a full pre-season under his belt (I know he was injured anyway), and after he had settled into English football more.

I guess, Ince must really not rate him, especially as we have so many central midfielders out already. Oh well, I guess as they say, football is about opinions....

[CrazyIvan]

I thought he did excellent last season, especially considering he was out of the game for so long. He has one key asset which we don't really have when looking at our current midfielders, he can pass the football accurately and forward. He can also keep the ball well.

I was looking forward to seeing him with a full pre-season under his belt (I know he was injured anyway), and after he had settled into English football more.

I guess, Ince must really not rate him, especially as we have so many central midfielders out already. Oh well, I guess as they say, football is about opinions....

Andrews passing has shone through whenever he has been on the pitch. That's maybe why Ince isn't looking at keeping Vogel.

[philipl]

Andrews passing has shone through whenever he has been on the pitch. That's maybe why Ince isn't looking at keeping Vogel.

Now that is a joke.

Vogel is in every respect superior to what I have seen of Andrews thus far. Vogel can pass with both feet, has quick feet and didn't arrive in tackles minutes too late.

[Frisky Jim]

Yet another example of Paul Ince's pathetic judgement. Williams probably appointed him because he admires his nepotism.

The club is descending into chaos.

[T4E]

Doesn't Magnum know that Vogel has played for AC Milan?!

[JAL]

I'll stand up for Ince on this decision Vogel was getting on and didnt look too great for me though nor does Andrews whose also got to go.

[dingles staying down 4ever]

Yet another example of Paul Ince's pathetic judgement. Williams probably appointed him because he admires his nepotism.

The club is descending into chaos.

How do you arrive at that conclusion?

Doesn't Magnum know that Vogel has played for AC Milan?!

Are you trying to say that Inter's Ince doesn't rate Vogel beacuse he played at AC?

[Frisky Jim]

How do you arrive at that conclusion?

He believes that Vogel is inferior to Andrews, he signed Robbie Fowler and has also lavished praise on Jason Roberts. Clear examples that suggest that the club is in trouble under Ince's guidance.

Signing poor players whilst letting good ones leave is rather reckless. I have no faith in Paul Ince.

[dingles staying down 4ever]

He believes that Vogel is inferior to Andrews, he signed Robbie Fowler and has also lavished praise on Jason Roberts. Clear examples that suggest that the club is in trouble under Ince's guidance.

Signing poor players whilst letting good ones leave is rather reckless. I have no faith in Paul Ince.

No it is an example of a difference of opinion between Ince and yourself on players not the deaththrows of a great club.

[DingleBaiter]

......I have no faith in Paul Ince.

Never would have guessed!

Now why do I have this mental image of a washed-up preacher, that's hit the skids bemoaning his 'loss of faith?

Has this happened to you before, perhaps under previous managers? How did you find your 'faith' on that occasion?

Why not try the Multi-faith room, plenty to go round in there it seems?

[Frisky Jim]

No it is an example of a difference of opinion between Ince and yourself on players not the deaththrows of a great club.

Ince's opinion is one that can seriously damage the long-term prospects of the club. As has been said, if he thinks that his buddies Andrews and Fowler are adequate players for the club, one can only assume that he believes that avoiding relegation would be a major achievement this season.

[dingles staying down 4ever]

Ince's opinion is one that can seriously damage the long-term prospects of the club. As has been said, if he thinks that his buddies Andrews and Fowler are adequate players for the club, one can only assume that he believes that avoiding relegation would be a major achievement this season.

when compared to Newcastle and Spurs it is hardly a club in chaos though is it?

[DeadlyDirk]

He's looked a decent player but nothing outstanding, he has been injured in pre season and at the start of the season so maybe Ince feels he's not quite the player he was.

He's probably just being fair to Vogel and allowing him to talk to clubs if he wants to as he can't guarantee him first team football.

They come and go.....

[Amo]

Has Vogel not even featured for the reserves? If not, it sounds like he's just been frozen out completely.

[DingleBaiter]

Ince's opinion is one that can seriously damage the long-term prospects of the club. As has been said, if he thinks that his buddies Andrews and Fowler are adequate players for the club, one can only assume that he believes that avoiding relegation would be a major achievement this season.

Clearly, the opposite must also be true too? Isn't about perception (or your lack of it?). Conversely, Ince's opinion could also seriously enhance the long-term prospects of the club, given his influence he's had on the Academy/reserves already?

You know what they say about people that ass-u-me don't you?

We're talking about Vogel here, a player who has a history of moaning and falling out. Yes he's played around Europe and has some pedigree, but he only was a freebie after all. He could play more in the Euro style of passing and killing games, not so strong on the action/physical stuff. Though I felt he looked a decent player, he also seemed the type of guy that would need a ball-winner alongside him more than anyone.

If you look at the squad, Dunn Tugay or Judge would always be more likely to fulfill one central midfielder spot. The water carrier spot would be taken by Grella, Andrews or Moko.

Let's not forget Lord Hughes also dropped him too BTW.

Strangely enough, the only people that seem to presume Fowler & Andrews would be first-choicers (in building their 'straw men arguments) are the folks that seem to consider them 'adequate', which seems illogical, does it not?

Seems to me people are just picking up on a player that was probably never going to be streets in front of the other midfielders at the club anyways, when the manager has to cull some of the staff in positions were overloaded in. Vogel's a decent player, but in the eyes of the manager he's not more decent than anyone he's brought in or played to date.

[baxendenblue]

Tought he may have been instrumental in our midfield his year but obviously not. If he is not going to play then it is better to get him off the payroll

[DingleBaiter]

Has Vogel not even featured for the reserves? If not, it sounds like he's just been frozen out completely.

AFAIA he's never been in contention, possibly due to his 'injury', or not making himself available? Some players don't, or won't, play for the stiffs though. More future in this instance to play the youngsters, for the long term.

[Amo]

AFAIA he's never been in contention, possibly due to his 'injury', or not making himself available? Some players don't, or won't, play for the stiffs though. More future in this instance to play the youngsters, for the long term.

You'd think a senior player returning to fitness who played consistently when called upon, would be given at least some part in the second string.