Wrestling Entertainment - we know, you don't have to tell us!

[DE.]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-51682017 - nice AEW story on the BBC  

[Bigdoggsteel]

21 minutes ago, DE. said:

Colt Cabana joining AEW was a nice touch. There are quite a few from Powerrr who I think could do a solid job for AEW. Drake is an obvious one, but also guys like Ricky Starks and Aron Rex (aka Damien Sandow) could really shine on a bigger stage with more creative freedom. 

The storyline I'm looking forward to the most is the impending civil war between the Elite. It's a matter of time before it explodes between Hangman and the Bucks, at which point Omega and Cody will also have to take sides - with people like Dustin, Arn Anderson, QT Marshall, etc having to choose where their allegiances lie. I think they are priming for a Cody heel turn at some point - although he's so over as a babyface at the moment that it seems too early to turn him already. 

Ya, Cabana coming out to the AEW crowd was a better look than the small, but excellent , NWA crowd. 

I don't think they should turn Cody heel anytime soon. 

I think Drake is so good, he could be world champion. 

[DE.]

Thunder Rosa would be a great addition to the AEW women's division too. I could easily see her as a member of the Inner Circle and coming out with Santana & Ortiz as an LAX-style group. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

[Bigdoggsteel]

59 minutes ago, DE. said:

Thunder Rosa would be a great addition to the AEW women's division too. I could easily see her as a member of the Inner Circle and coming out with Santana & Ortiz as an LAX-style group. 

Ya, a female would be good for the group. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

I loved Jericho's jacket last night. Bling,bling. Is he up there now with the really,really top guys? I mean top 5 of all time. I reckon he is underrated. Cocky heel cruiserweight Jericho to now is epic stuff. 

What is the story with Britt Baker? Are they pushing her because of Adam Cole? Any matches of hers I have seen have been bad and they commentary last night for a bit and it was really, really bad. It's like she was commentating from isolation and couldn't hear the others. I think she is kind of cute though, so I will allow it. 

[Miller11]

2 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

What is agenting? 

Ya, really cool seeing him. Great promo. Cody is involved in some interesting stuff. 

Basically helping them put matches together. Working with the talent to figure out the flow of the match and story they want to tell. 
For me there is too much focus in AEW on everyone getting their stuff in, and more of a focus on spectacle rather than story. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

4 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

Basically helping them put matches together. Working with the talent to figure out the flow of the match and story they want to tell. 
For me there is too much focus in AEW on everyone getting their stuff in, and more of a focus on spectacle rather than story. 

Oh,I dunno. I think they are good at story telling,but certainly it is about people getting their stuff in. 

Just on AEW and I think you said this too, the tag team match at Revolution was decent,but certainly being over hyped. 100%

Edited March 6, 2020 by Bigdoggsteel

[DE.]

I dunno, other than there being too many nearfalls at the end I feel like they got Omega/Hangman Vs The Bucks spot on. It was the perfect blend of everybody getting their stuff in but also telling an amazing in-ring story building on months of angles. I'm really not sure what else they could have done to make it better. 

Edited March 6, 2020 by DE.

[Bigdoggsteel]

14 minutes ago, DE. said:

I dunno, other than there being too many nearfalls at the end I feel like they got Omega/Hangman Vs The Bucks spot on. It was the perfect blend of everybody getting their stuff in but also telling an amazing in-ring story building on months of angles. I'm really not sure what else they could have done to make it better. 

It was good, but to say the best is discounting some amazing matches over the years. I suppose there hasn't been an in depth look at it v other matches. I imagine the Steiners put on some hard hitting tag team clinics over the years, with good story telling. Id say they had some shit shows as well ?

Edited March 6, 2020 by Bigdoggsteel

[DE.]

8 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

It was good, but to say the best is discounting some amazing matches over the years. I suppose there hasn't been an in depth look at it v other matches. I imagine the Steiners put on some hard hitting tag team clinics over the years, with good story telling. Id say they had some shit shows as well ?

Possibly, although to be honest "best ever" is a silly label anyway as all entertainment including wrestling is entirely subjective. If you're like Cornette and only like Mid-South 1980s stuff then you probably won't have even thought the match was good let alone great. If you prefer modern style NJPW wrestling then it probably is up there with the very best. 

It's all just opinions at the end of the day! Personally I loved watching it, I felt like it rewarded me as a viewer for being invested in a storyline and that's all I ask for out of wrestling. The worst thing is being invested in a storyline then watching it get flushed down the toilet by idiotic booking decisions (©WWE). 

[Bigdoggsteel]

No,it was great. Getting the PPV in and reading on here was what made me sign up to AEW plus.

Pity the bucks botched the Meltzer driver on the outside. Would have been some spot. Even the replays don't show then connection. He missed it by about 2 foot. 

It's surprising looking back at some of the older stuff how good the matches were. I watched a singles match on YouTube a while ago between Mike Awesome and some Japanese lad. Wow. 

Edited March 6, 2020 by Bigdoggsteel

[DE.]

Yes that botch was a bit unfortunate, although it's not uncommon for the Bucks! Fortunately it wasn't the finish (not even close as it turned out) so at least it didn't matter that much in the grand scheme of things.

Quote

I watched a singles match on YouTube a while ago between Mike Awesome and some Japanese lad. Wow. 

It was probably Awesome Vs Masato Tanaka, and yeah they had some incredible fights, including at ECW One Night Stand in 2005! I still remember the ridiculous table spot at the end.

 

Edited March 6, 2020 by DE.

[Bigdoggsteel]

18 minutes ago, DE. said:

Yes that botch was a bit unfortunate, although it's not uncommon for the Bucks! Fortunately it wasn't the finish (not even close as it turned out) so at least it didn't matter that much in the grand scheme of things.

It was probably Awesome Vs Masato Tanaka, and yeah they had some incredible fights, including at ECW One Night Stand in 2005! I still remember the ridiculous table spot at the end.

 

I haven't seen much of the bucks to be honest,but I like the fact they have distinct different facial expressions which portray their characters. I'm reading it Matt is borderline cheeky heel and Matt is a pure baby-face? I'm definitely invested after watching that match. 

I think that had 4. I watched some clips on Wrestling with Wregret and googled it then. Something about those matches got me back into wrestling properly, wow. 

[Miller11]

1 hour ago, DE. said:

Possibly, although to be honest "best ever" is a silly label anyway as all entertainment including wrestling is entirely subjective. If you're like Cornette and only like Mid-South 1980s stuff then you probably won't have even thought the match was good let alone great. If you prefer modern style NJPW wrestling then it probably is up there with the very best. 

It's all just opinions at the end of the day! Personally I loved watching it, I felt like it rewarded me as a viewer for being invested in a storyline and that's all I ask for out of wrestling. The worst thing is being invested in a storyline then watching it get flushed down the toilet by idiotic booking decisions (©WWE). 

Believe it or not, Cornette actually liked it!

Something along the lines of “As an athletic spectacle, and as modern wrestling goes, this was very good. But it had flaws that would stop it being considered a classic”

His main issue was the loose application of the rules and Matt Jackson’s selling, or lack of. He also mentioned a lot of back and forth rather than building heat.

[Bigdoggsteel]

4 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

Believe it or not, Cornette actually liked it!

Something along the lines of “As an athletic spectacle, and as modern wrestling goes, this was very good. But it had flaws that would stop it being considered a classic”

His main issue was the loose application of the rules and Matt Jackson’s selling, or lack of. He also mentioned a lot of back and forth rather than building heat.

Interesting. I have so many podcasts I listen to. If he had a show on YouTube, that wasn't just the animated version it is now, I would watch him. 

The building heat thing is huge and the raw hatred a crowd had for a heel in the past is never going to happen again. Well not in any company that is on TV. 

[Miller11]

15 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Interesting. I have so many podcasts I listen to. If he had a show on YouTube, that wasn't just the animated version it is now, I would watch him. 

The building heat thing is huge and the raw hatred a crowd had for a heel in the past is never going to happen again. Well not in any company that is on TV. 

I’d definitely recommend taking the time to listen to listen to the episode of Jim Cornette Experience from last week, even if you just skip to where he reviews Raw and Dynamite back to back. Some absolutely brilliant insight at a level I don’t think you find on any other podcast. Sure, there is a fair bit of vitriol in there, but the critique is fascinating.

Cornette and Prichard are the podcasts I listen to religiously. And a couple of BritWres ones, Bischoff’s and Sean Mooney regularly too.

 

edit - this is the show I was talking about

 

Edited March 6, 2020 by Miller11
Added link

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 minute ago, Miller11 said:

I’d definitely recommend taking the time to listen to listen to the episode of Jim Cornette Experience from last week, even if you just skip to where he reviews Raw and Dynamite back to back. Some absolutely brilliant insight at a level I don’t think you find on any other podcast. Sure, there is a fair bit of vitriol in there, but the critique is fascinating.

Cornette and Prichard are the podcasts I listen to religiously. And a couple of BritWres ones, Bischoff’s and Sean Mooney regularly too.

I'm weird. Going that deep is too much breaking Kayfabe for me. If that makes sense? 

[Miller11]

12 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I'm weird. Going that deep is too much breaking Kayfabe for me. If that makes sense? 

No, I get you. Ironic that the biggest complaint he has is generally the disregard for kayfabe! 

[Bigdoggsteel]

2 hours ago, Miller11 said:

No, I get you. Ironic that the biggest complaint he has is generally the disregard for kayfabe! 

Ya,I don't see how that tallies! Is that a complaint levelled at him? That's my genuine reason. I found Cornette to be good on TV anytime I saw him

NWA was a great fit,but I have absolutely no complaints with his replacement,in fact I would say he is so good that it lessened Cornettes exit. 

Edited March 6, 2020 by Bigdoggsteel

[Bigdoggsteel]

About 4 minutes of crowd chatter on Dynamite, don't know why. Just before the main event  

Great last match. 

Edited March 6, 2020 by Bigdoggsteel

[DE.]

5 hours ago, Miller11 said:

Believe it or not, Cornette actually liked it!

Something along the lines of “As an athletic spectacle, and as modern wrestling goes, this was very good. But it had flaws that would stop it being considered a classic”

His main issue was the loose application of the rules and Matt Jackson’s selling, or lack of. He also mentioned a lot of back and forth rather than building heat.

I'm surprised but pleased to hear Cornette appreciated it. I think in his mind a 'classic' would be more old school wrestling, whereas there is a case for it to be called a 'modern classic' at the very least. The lack of selling thing is an issue that's been going on for a while now, especially prevailant in NJPW, which AEW obviously draws significant inspiration from. I'm not so bothered about loose application of the rules as it's wrestling, and it's been a long time since rules have been applied stringently. There have been times when AEW refs have been made to look like idiots by refusing to DQ people though - but that's an edict from Tony Khan where he doesn't want any matches ending in DQ. Personally I think he's misguided to a degree here (fine for PPV matches, but TV matches can definitely end in DQ). 

1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

About 4 minutes of crowd chatter on Dynamite, don't know why. Just before the main event  

Great last match. 

I think it's from the FITE TV feed which doesn't include commercial breaks, whereas the TNT feed does. So the four minutes of crowd noise is basically where TNT is on a commercial break.

[Miller11]

2 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Ya,I don't see how that tallies! Is that a complaint levelled at him? That's my genuine reason. I found Cornette to be good on TV anytime I saw him

NWA was a great fit,but I have absolutely no complaints with his replacement,in fact I would say he is so good that it lessened Cornettes exit. 

He’s certainly polarising. I’m a big fan, and from my point of view a lot of the criticism he gets is blind faux outrage based on the fact he is very critical of people that a lot of people are passionately in to. I see people say he is “toxic” and has “dangerous” views. Politically he’s massively liberal, and the same people have no issues with Darby Allin paying homage to one of the most disgusting individuals to ever walk the planet. That’s just one example of the many inconsistencies of his detractors.

I really enjoyed him on NWA and MLW. He wouldn’t be a good fit anywhere else, and has no desire to work anything like a full time schedule. He has said he struggled to call Jimmy Havoc matches, and made his feelings on him and Sami Callaghan clear on commentary. As a manager I’d put him at number 2 of all time right behind Heenan and just ahead of Heyman. It’s a shame that AEW or WWE can’t find a way to get him involved on some level, because his mind is absolutely fascinating, and his passion unreal.

I try to view his podcasts as a stand alone entity, rather than part of my wrestling viewing experience, if that makes sense. I have to watch a show before he reviews it. The depth he goes into is brilliant - talks about things you wouldn’t necessarily consider.

13 minutes ago, DE. said:

I'm surprised but pleased to hear Cornette appreciated it. I think in his mind a 'classic' would be more old school wrestling, whereas there is a case for it to be called a 'modern classic' at the very least. The lack of selling thing is an issue that's been going on for a while now, especially prevailant in NJPW, which AEW obviously draws significant inspiration from. I'm not so bothered about loose application of the rules as it's wrestling, and it's been a long time since rules have been applied stringently. There have been times when AEW refs have been made to look like idiots by refusing to DQ people though - but that's an edict from Tony Khan where he doesn't want any matches ending in DQ. Personally I think he's misguided to a degree here (fine for PPV matches, but TV matches can definitely end in DQ). 

Spot on with all of that. I’ve got four main gripes with most wrestling matches I’ve seen in the last 5 years, in every promotion... Pathetic/no punches, people standing round waiting to be dived on, “in jokes” (see dickflip, invisible men, hands in pockets) and moves seemingly having no impact. I know what the deal is, but a massive part of any match should be making it logical and believable. Once you start admitting it’s a work in the match itself, it looses all point for me.

[DE.]

Agree with all of that, false finishes are also getting ridiculous now. Finishers are now basically just normal moves as it takes about a million of them to pin somebody. NJPW is the worst for this. Okada has to hit about ten rainmakers in an average main event to win. 

[DE.]

WWE are really bad for this as well, actually. Super Showdown was a good example - how many people has Taker put down recently with a single chokeslam? I can't think of any. Then AJ gets pinned with one after barely doing anything in the gauntlet match. It made him look incredibly weak. Lesnar's F5 used to be well protected but then you had the likes of Goldberg and Reigns kicking out of multiple F5's, so when Kofi or Ricochet get put down with just one it makes them look really bad. The devaluing of finishers is a real pet peeve of mine.