Wrestling Entertainment - we know, you don't have to tell us!

[Dreyski]

The whole thing is a very uncomfortable read. It's knowing that the industry as a whole must have known, not necessarily the whole ordeal that this poor woman has been through, but certainly they'd know about how much of a deviant Vince is. That he's been allowed to get to 2022 to do this is the failure. Vince is the monster, but the entire industry has been complicit due to his control and power. It's not at all surprising that it has all come out within a year of him not being the top player.

The disproportionate amount of women in the business that have committed suicide, or passed from a drug overdose, probably needs a deep dive. Certainly Ashley Massaro given what we know already, but the Sherri Martel's, the Chyna's, the Luna Vachon's. We know how degraded Sunny and Sable were by 'the boys' in the 90's, does that go further up? It's gross. The business is gross. That this disgusting story feels like the tip of the iceberg is the most harrowing part.

[Dreyski]

aaand...he's 'resigned'.

https://deadline.com/2024/01/vince-mcmahon-resigns-rape-lawsuit-tko-group-holding-sex-trafficking-1235805961/amp/

[DE.]

It goes without saying the full suit is beyond grim and a horrific read. I'd recommend listening to the 'Behind the Bastards' six-parter on Vince - it leaves me with little doubt that a significant amount of what is alleged is most likely true. 

For balance, though, let's just note what is demonstrably true beyond what would be considered reasonable doubt at this point. Vince hired this woman on the basis on an affair he was having with her. Vince gave her a made-up job at WWE and used company funds to pay her, even though the sole reason for her being hired was the affair in question - or at the very least the potential for it to begin, depending on timelines. Considering the woman's financial circumstances, there was unquestionably a severely imbalanced power-dynamic within their personal and professional relationship. Vince used company funds to give this woman multiple gifts. When suspicions grew beyond a point where Vince was comfortable, he used company funds to sign this woman to an unfair and likely illegal NDA - one of many - and much like the others this was not declared on WWE financial statements at the time. Vince did not honour the terms of said NDA and stopped payments after only paying roughly a third of what he promised (hence the current escalation). 

Putting aside everything else, as horrible as the allegations are, this was all known before Vince returned to power. All of this was as clear as daylight the first time Vince left the company, and therefore TKO would have known full-well who they were getting into bed with when they brokered a deal with Vince to buy the company and gave him a contract which allowed him to not only return to said company, but make it so that the only way he could leave would be if he was to die, become incapacitated or voluntarily resign. TKO prioritised a business deal over the many lives Vince has ruined, and for that, fuck them. It's not a surprise in corporate America - and let's not forget it was WWE's biggest sponsor making threats this time around that forced action, just as it was with Snickers and Moolah -  but nonetheless, fuck TKO. Their hands are dirty on this too. They named Vince very clearly as a future liability to the brand in financial statements, so they knew what they were getting into.

As far as the text messages are concerned, there's little reason to doubt their validity as it is incomprehensiable that they would be submitted as evidence unless the woman's lawyer had pretty concrete proof that they were legitimate. All they show is that Vince has some pretty sick domination fantasies, though, so those will come down to interpretation. Similarly the recounting of various disgusting events portrayed in the suit will be a matter of circumstancial evidence and personal belief. Considering this is a man who once proposed an incest angle with his own children amongst other gross ideas, I would consider them extremely plausible, but purely in the interests of balance I'll withhold judgement and stick to what can be ascertained as 99% likely to be true - which is mostly information that was known about before the latest accusations were released.

Then we get to who else was involved or knew about what was going on. There's a lot of focus right now on Triple H and Stephanie. I find it unlikely that either would have known anything about the text messages, and nor do I believe Vince was actually going around showing pictures and videos of this woman to everybody. It's impossible to imagine this being so, as there are a lot of people in the company who would have been smart enough to distance themselves as far from that situation and indeed the company itself as possible, as it would have been obvious such a thing would be a ticking time bomb waiting to explode and engulf them all in the aftermath. I would guess that when Vince mentioned this in his text messages, it was a way of exercising control over the woman, making her feel further worthless and powerless. I'm sure there were some very close to him that knew and had seen the videos and images, but I don't think it went much beyond that. 

Assuming the former UFC fighter named in the suit and the WSJ article is indeed Brock Lesnar, then we can safely assume he was aware and involved on some level, and there is likely some evidence via text messages to back that up. Nobody should be surprised that Brock is a piece of shit, though - plenty of evidence to back that up historically. 

In terms of the three names that keep coming up outside of the obvious - Pritchard, Dunn, etc - Triple H, Stephanie and Nick Khan - again, I don't think any of them are stupid enough to continue to be involved in any capacity with Vince if aware of the true extent of the allegations. At the very least I would say it's plausible H and Stephanie were involved in ensuring people stayed quiet about rumours and speculation, and I'm sure they knew Vince was having affairs, but until further information emerges to the contrary I don't think either are dumb enough to have willingly been a part of any serious cover up for misdeeds beyond that. Nick Khan would also have had too much to lose to be majorly involved in this in any way. I would imagine he had a strictly business relationship with Vince, although it is obviously worth noting that all three would have been aware of exactly who they were dealing with and what he was capable of and had done in the past. That can be said for a lot of people who have worked with Vince historically though - including the biggest stars in the business like Cena, Rock, Roman, Stone Cold, Undertaker - so it's a question of where you draw the line in terms of what was acceptable for them to prioritise for financial gain over other people suffering. I'm not going to make that judgement, but the discourse will be out there for sure.

With Vince resigning, he's surely now gone for good. Even if this goes away with a settlement or Vince somehow gets it dismissed, I cannot fathom a scenario where TKO allows Vince back into the company. Unlike before, he no longer has shareholder majority so without the contract TKO gave him he has no power with which to stage a return. He's effectively done and his legacy is permanently tarnished within WWE alongside his reputation in general, which will surely be ruined by this. A fitting end for, in my view, an evil and sadistic human being - but it doesn't do much to help those whose lives he's trashed over the decades.  

[Miller11]

I was really looking forward to the Royal Rumble tonight, and was actually going to bother watching a live PPV for a change with all the potential intrigue. It’s as exciting as it’s been in a long time.

However these revelations have left me feeling like I really don’t want to bother. Obviously it’s been common knowledge Vince’s behaviour has often been questionable, and of late there was obviously something particularly unsavoury going on. But this is absolutely horrific. I think Dreyski hits the nail on the head above, the industry is pretty horrible. What consenting adults do is one thing, and in that particular environment there’s probably a fair bit of salacious activity and minor scandal goes on, but it’s pretty evident there are still a lot of things that go way beyond what is acceptable. I’m sure a lot will come out about Vince now, plus there’s the recent revelations regarding Jericho and his NDA. Lesnar surely can’t be used again, Don Callous shouldn’t be employed… could be another watershed moment like the me too movement of a few years ago with some top names outed rather than just brits and indie workers.

[Mike E]

It has been alleged (and it’s believable given the timeframes) that Shane has known about this kind of behaviour from his father the whole time, and it is the main reason he left the company in the mid00s.

Apparently he ‘didn’t want to be like, or endorse’ his father.

[DE.]

I'm sure all of those who are close to Vince know exactly what he's about - although probably not to the absolute depths the lawsuit describes. Triple H gave a shitty answer from a PR perspective at the RR presser by claiming he hadn't read the suit and just wanted to "focus on the positives". I figured he'd have something smarter than that to say. Cody did a much better job with his answer.

I haven't watched WWE for a while, but I did watch the Rumble. 

Women's match was really good. I thought it was paced well, did a good job interweaving storylines throughout, had some nice surprise entrants and there wasn't any definitive favourite to win the match. I thought they'd go with Jade, but I'm cool with Bayley as well. 

Fatal four way was a good match but it's obvious Roman isn't dropping the belt before WM, so a bit pointless really. Can't believe they're still doing the Bloodline screwjob finishes. Talk about overdoing something. 

Logan Paul and Kevin Owens was pretty decent. Not much more to say than that.

The men's rumble was utterly boring to me. Nothing particularly interesting happened throughout, the winner was obviously going to be Cody, other than Andrade (meh) and McAfee (eliminated himself after 38 seconds) there were no surprise entrants and no legends. Last year's rumble was really boring to me, and this one was as well. The current roster simply doesn't have the star power and charisma of previous generations. Also some really questionable late entry choices. Ricochet at #28? Sami Zayn as #30? Right, okay. I did read that the original plan was for Lesnar to be there, but that got nixed after last week's revelations. I'm not sure his appearance changes the dynamic of the match much though - we've seen it before with Lesnar. 

Anyway, yeah... to use a Gen Z term, the men's rumble was very "mid" from my perspective. 

[Mike E]

On 28/01/2024 at 19:38, DE. said:

I'm sure all of those who are close to Vince know exactly what he's about - although probably not to the absolute depths the lawsuit describes. Triple H gave a shitty answer from a PR perspective at the RR presser by claiming he hadn't read the suit and just wanted to "focus on the positives". I figured he'd have something smarter than that to say. Cody did a much better job with his answer.

I haven't watched WWE for a while, but I did watch the Rumble. 

Women's match was really good. I thought it was paced well, did a good job interweaving storylines throughout, had some nice surprise entrants and there wasn't any definitive favourite to win the match. I thought they'd go with Jade, but I'm cool with Bayley as well. 

Fatal four way was a good match but it's obvious Roman isn't dropping the belt before WM, so a bit pointless really. Can't believe they're still doing the Bloodline screwjob finishes. Talk about overdoing something. 

Logan Paul and Kevin Owens was pretty decent. Not much more to say than that.

The men's rumble was utterly boring to me. Nothing particularly interesting happened throughout, the winner was obviously going to be Cody, other than Andrade (meh) and McAfee (eliminated himself after 38 seconds) there were no surprise entrants and no legends. Last year's rumble was really boring to me, and this one was as well. The current roster simply doesn't have the star power and charisma of previous generations. Also some really questionable late entry choices. Ricochet at #28? Sami Zayn as #30? Right, okay. I did read that the original plan was for Lesnar to be there, but that got nixed after last week's revelations. I'm not sure his appearance changes the dynamic of the match much though - we've seen it before with Lesnar. 

Anyway, yeah... to use a Gen Z term, the men's rumble was very "mid" from my perspective. 

 Bron Breakker took Lesnar’s exact role allegedly. Which is actually disappointing as he should be an entrant to oppose Lesnar imo.

Definitely needed some more legend sprinkling in there. I feel likes of X-PAC, Scotty2Hotty, would put on a decent show with a decent pop. Maybe even fully retired types like Kane/Kurt Angle could do it?

I think the main ‘boredom’ factor is that you can’t pop to any wrestling music anymore. It’s all very generic. Where are the catchphrases, the glass smashes, the Jim Johnston stuff?

[ScorpioRover]

Funny how they quickly reverted back to Reigns V Rhodes at mania due to the lack of positive reaction regarding The Rock 🤣😂

[Riversider28]

Completely off track to what has gone before, I went to King George’s Hall last night with my daughter to see Alan Shearer. As I sat there In the main hall, I couldn’t help but think back to the times in the early 1960’s when I went with my dad to watch the wrestling. The likes of Jackie Pallo, Mick McManus, Steve Logan, Les Kellet, Kendo Nagasaki, Billy Two Rivers, the names go on. Great memories for me and I’m sure, many others of you.

[ScorpioRover]

17 hours ago, Riversider28 said:

Completely off track to what has gone before, I went to King George’s Hall last night with my daughter to see Alan Shearer. As I sat there In the main hall, I couldn’t help but think back to the times in the early 1960’s when I went with my dad to watch the wrestling. The likes of Jackie Pallo, Mick McManus, Steve Logan, Les Kellet, Kendo Nagasaki, Billy Two Rivers, the names go on. Great memories for me and I’m sure, many others of you.

there’s megaslam events in colne and Blackpool as well as PCW

[Miller11]

5 hours ago, ScorpioRover said:

there’s megaslam events in colne and Blackpool as well as PCW

PCW is an absolute shadow of its former self. Dreadful these days.

[DE.]

I'm glad WWE did the right thing by backtracking (and the press conference confrontation was legitimately fantastic), but it's crazy that they misread their audience so badly. With Vince out of the picture I thought they'd be a little more sensible, but seems like TKO are just as dense. The one main difference seems to be that they're willing to change course rather than try to force the audience to accept what's given to them, which is obviously a positive.

[ScorpioRover]

14 hours ago, Miller11 said:

PCW is an absolute shadow of its former self. Dreadful these days.

all wrestling promotions dip in form

[ScorpioRover]

12 hours ago, DE. said:

I'm glad WWE did the right thing by backtracking (and the press conference confrontation was legitimately fantastic), but it's crazy that they misread their audience so badly. With Vince out of the picture I thought they'd be a little more sensible, but seems like TKO are just as dense. The one main difference seems to be that they're willing to change course rather than try to force the audience to accept what's given to them, which is obviously a positive.

Personally i believe it was The Rocks call to change it to him and Rhodes..... the negativity then forced the back track. Also, i think we are going to see a tag team match between The Rock & Roman v Rhodes and Rollins

[DE.]

10 minutes ago, ScorpioRover said:

Personally i believe it was The Rocks call to change it to him and Rhodes..... the negativity then forced the back track. Also, i think we are going to see a tag team match between The Rock & Roman v Rhodes and Rollins

I know the Observer reported that it was part of Rock's contract when he signed to the TKO board that he would headline WM. How true that is, I don't know, but it would be baffling for them to go ahead with Cody winning the rumble if that was the case. With that said, everything about this has been baffling, so it's probably true. 

I'd like to see Rock/Seth on Night 1 and Cody/Roman on Night 2. Rock still gets his main event, but nothing to do with Cody and Reigns. Doesn't seem like that's the direction they're going in though. 

[ScorpioRover]

3 minutes ago, DE. said:

I know the Observer reported that it was part of Rock's contract when he signed to the TKO board that he would headline WM. How true that is, I don't know, but it would be baffling for them to go ahead with Cody winning the rumble if that was the case. With that said, everything about this has been baffling, so it's probably true. 

I'd like to see Rock/Seth on Night 1 and Cody/Roman on Night 2. Rock still gets his main event, but nothing to do with Cody and Reigns. Doesn't seem like that's the direction they're going in though. 

this mania being the 40th one should be an epic spectacle.. the problem is they have no actual plan going forward and everything is up in the air it could actually be one of the worst ones in memory

[DE.]

I think they had a fairly solid plan until Rock came in and forced his way into storylines. The Vince allegations obviously put things into a state of chaos as well.

I actually think they have the opportunity now to make things more interesting than the original plans, but it depends where they go creatively. It's not ideal to have to retool a story that they likely had booked well in advance, and deal with the knock on affect of how that impacts other stories - particularly Seth's opponent at WM. 

[ScorpioRover]

2 hours ago, DE. said:

I think they had a fairly solid plan until Rock came in and forced his way into storylines. The Vince allegations obviously put things into a state of chaos as well.

I actually think they have the opportunity now to make things more interesting than the original plans, but it depends where they go creatively. It's not ideal to have to retool a story that they likely had booked well in advance, and deal with the knock on affect of how that impacts other stories - particularly Seth's opponent at WM. 

The way the rock thought he could just muscle is way into the main event of mania without anything much going on before hand and to make the storylines that have been going on for a long time now seem a waste and irrelevant, just goes to show how out of touch the rock is with the WWE and the WWW Universe….. Friday will be interesting 

[DE.]

53 minutes ago, ScorpioRover said:

The way the rock thought he could just muscle is way into the main event of mania without anything much going on before hand and to make the storylines that have been going on for a long time now seem a waste and irrelevant, just goes to show how out of touch the rock is with the WWE and the WWW Universe….. Friday will be interesting 

The only thing I'll say in Rock and TKO's defence is that at least they immediately walked it back. Under Vince it would have taken a lot longer, if it happened at all. This probably doesn't do any lasting damage to Cody and does set up some really interesting possibilities going forward, so they've stumbled their way into something interesting in the end - they just went about it in a very backwards way. I did find it funny how at the press conference Cody basically pretended like he didn't make a decision on Smackdown and retconned that entire ending segment. That's exactly what they should have done - have Cody say he'd spoken to Rock and made a decision, then have Rock come out and engage in a staredown with Reigns without Cody saying anything else. Imply that Rock might be stealing the main event without outright saying so. Gauge the response and go from there. The press conference then makes a lot more sense.

Nonetheless, what's done is done. They've done the right thing in the end, and I assume that going forward they'll just pretend Cody never actually said he was giving up his WM spot. 

[Mike E]

I loved an idea (although I hope it remains only an idea) that Rock’s demands to HHH to ‘fix it’ grow their feud further.

Come WM Night One, Rock gets in the ring and calls out HHH. ‘You didn’t fix it. You disrespected me as a board member, you disrespected the Bloodline, you disrespected my family. I could fire your candyass right now but why don’t you step in this ring so I can whup it instead!’

HHH: ‘Rock, as much as I’d love to step in the ring, you know I can’t. My heart issues haven’t gone away. But I figured you’ve been getting angrier as the weeks have built to this amazing event. I figured you’d call me out. I know you want a fight, but you won’t get it from me…

*Glass shatters*

[ScorpioRover]

16 minutes ago, Mike E said:

I loved an idea (although I hope it remains only an idea) that Rock’s demands to HHH to ‘fix it’ grow their feud further.

Come WM Night One, Rock gets in the ring and calls out HHH. ‘You didn’t fix it. You disrespected me as a board member, you disrespected the Bloodline, you disrespected my family. I could fire your candyass right now but why don’t you step in this ring so I can whup it instead!’

HHH: ‘Rock, as much as I’d love to step in the ring, you know I can’t. My heart issues haven’t gone away. But I figured you’ve been getting angrier as the weeks have built to this amazing event. I figured you’d call me out. I know you want a fight, but you won’t get it from me…

*Glass shatters*

Don’t usually get promos at mania or PPVs/PLEs anyway in general but to have stone cold come back v The Rock would be the nuts….. don’t think stone cold would tho

[Mike E]

6 hours ago, ScorpioRover said:

Don’t usually get promos at mania or PPVs/PLEs anyway in general but to have stone cold come back v The Rock would be the nuts….. don’t think stone cold would tho

Agreed, just an idea I’d seen that I know I’d pop for but it should stay in the past

[Dreyski]

Tony Khan’s fragile ego on full display last week:

Firstly in response to Punk’s interview with Ariel Helwani, showing backstage footage of the Punk/Jack Perry scuffle (I’ll accept this may be part of a storyline bringing back Perry and aligning him with the Elite)

Then, after HHH’s comments of some AEW talent not being “in it for the grind”, Will Ospreay responded with a personal jab at HHH ‘grinding the boss’s daughter’

All this one week after Adam Copeland’s promo about having less tribalism in the industry. 

Khan needs someone able to tell him ‘no’.