New signing from a team just promoted to the Premier League, no less! #goingup

The right decision for all involved. Gareth had a good run but ultimately we're still at the 'glorious failure' stage, albeit that's a step up from where he found us, which was just straight up failure. He's left a solid platform to build from which is a positive. Impossible to trust the FA when it comes to appointing an England manager, but hopefully the team will be more fun to watch next tournament. I'm not a national team fanatic so for me it's more about having fun and enjoying watching England than it is wanting us to win through any means necessary. Watching us in this Euros was painful until the semis, and I'd rather not have to deal with that again in two years time. With that said I'm not advocating for all-out attack, tactically naive football. Just a system with a bit more balance and bravery.

Dack is finished at this level I'm afraid. It'd be a desperation signing of a club only going in one direction.

It's definitely time for Southgate to leave, imo. He got lucky in this tournament and he must know that. We were a Bellingham wonder goal in the final 80 seconds from being knocked out by Slovakia in the last 16. We struggled against Denmark and Slovenia. We took the Swiss into extra time with our only shot on target. Yes we got through, but it was desperate at times. Gareth can still leave now with his head held high, even though we ultimately didn't win anything. That may not be the case if we repeat these performance levels at WC 2026, or it gets worse.

I'm somewhat the same way - it would have been nice to see England finally win a major tournament, but I'm not devastated that we lost either. Spain deserved to win the match and the tournament, and I'm okay with that. In terms of national team underachievement, I'd place that mainly between the 2007 - 2016 period. Euro 2000 was a disaster, granted. WC 2002 we went out to an incredible Brazil team who won the tournament. Euro 2004 we went out to a very good Portuguese team who made the final, and were genuinely unlucky to have our best player in Rooney go off injured before the first half had even ended. Similar BS in WC 2006 against Portugal when Beckham got injured just after the break and Rooney got himself sent off after 62 mins. So whilst we didn't progress as far as we would have wanted in these tournaments, we were playing good teams and had some bad luck. Portugal were also never able to beat us in normal or extra time, and both times had to rely on our achilles heel in penalties to squeak past. From 2007 though, oh boy. Didn't even qualify for Euro 2008. Abysmal showing in WC 2010. Taught a lesson by Italy in the Euro 2012 quarters (yes it went to penalties, but they had 20 attempts on target to our 4). Failed to even get out of the group in WC 2014. Knocked out in the Euro 2016 round of 16 by Iceland ffs. So yeah, we'd experienced essentially a decade of international failure and embarrassment before Southgate took over. Fair play to him for steadying the ship and getting people to believe in the national team again. He's done that very well, but to be clear has also been paid very well to do so. £5m per annum must be up there in terms of international wage brackets. I believe it's about £4m a year more than the Spanish head coach and according to this, he's actually the highest paid manager in the tournament. By some distance if those figures are accurate. Nonetheless, he walked into a difficult situation and improved things. No doubt. Time waits for no person though and from what I've seen in this tournament, final or not, things haven't been looking quite right and I'd want to roll the dice and see if we can get the team performing with more energy, creativity and just look like they're having fun out there. Also worth noting Southgate's own words from that article: "If we don’t win, I probably won’t be here any more,” he told Bild. “So maybe it is the last chance. I think around half the national coaches leave after a tournament — that’s the nature of international football. “I’ve been here almost eight years now and we’ve come close. You can’t constantly put yourself in front of the public and say, ‘A little more please’, as at some point people lose faith. If we want to be a great team and I want to be a top coach, you must deliver in big moments.”

Tbf I don't think that's the sole reason. Italy have often not had the best individual talent in their teams, but found a way to win tournaments. Greece certainly weren't the most talented team in 2004, nor were Portugal in 2016. In Euro 2020 I'd argue we were up there with any of the teams in that tournament, in terms of talent, but we didn't win that one either. Talent plays a part, usually a big part, but being able to transition a group of players into an international tournament from a club setting is a huge part of being successful as well. I don't think Gareth has done badly at all in this regard when it comes to building a team spirit and togetherness, he just lacks on the tactical front and his methods and style of play is likely very different from what the likes of Pep, Arteta, Ancelotti and the like are drilling into these players on a weekly basis at club level. It has to play some part in why our performances look so disjointed. I actually think the talent and natural ability of many of our players is why we're able to push through in spite of that. I think the ambition always has to be to win the tournament - in recent years especially we've shown we're more than capable of getting to the latter stages, so we should always consider ourselves in with a chance of winning a major tournament. Maybe it doesn't work out as well under a different manager, but personally I'm ready for a change to see what could happen. I'm not as engrossed in the national team as others are, and I'll admit I mainly just want to actually enjoy watching England play. If we also win a tournament then that's great, too. In terms of purely looking at results and ends justifying the means, I tend to focus more on that at club level with Rovers.

Most international teams do, though, especially the bigger nations. I'm not sure too many of the bigger nations have kept managers for 8+ years who haven't won anything? And none of them have the trophy drought we do, so 🤷‍♂️ as squads change and transition in international football, perhaps so should managers and coaches to keep things fresh and ensure it's the best fit for that group of players at the time.

A stat from the BBC live page: "England boss Gareth Southgate has become the first manager in European Championship history to end on the losing side in two finals." An interesting one as I imagine there probably aren't many managers who have led their country to two Euro finals, whether losing them or not. So not necessarily a stick to beat Gareth with, but eight years is a long time. According to this article in March 2021 he was the 12th longest serving international manager in Europe. Cherchesov has since left Russia, Martinez has left Belgium, Shevchenko has left Ukraine, Andersson has left Sweden, Angelovski is still at N. Macedonia, Santos has left Portugal, Petkovic has left Switzerland, Deschamps is still with France, Holtz is still at Luxembourg, Alvarez is still at Andorra and Low has left Germany. So, assuming that list is accurate, Southgate would now be 4th longest reigning international manager in europe? Of larger nations the longest behind Deschamps, but Deschamps did win the world cup for France in 2018. I would imagine, in terms of the bigger nations, Gareth's tenure is probably one of the longest without winning anything - which may also be why he's the first to lose two European finals.

To be fair to Kane, he has a good tournament record for us. Looking at the ratio at which his goals are spread out, he's at almost a goal a game in the WC and 7/17 in the Euros which isn't to be sniffed at, albeit not great. It's obvious we don't play to his strengths at all under Southgate, and arguably never really have, but he's continued scoring despite that. Problem is that, goals aside, he's not able to contribute anything else under Gareth's system. He'll be 33 next tournament, so one imagines there's a good chance someone else will need to step up. Not entirely sure who that will be, but in terms of pure goalscoring Kane will be a tough act to follow. In terms of the other areas of play, less so, and maybe that will be given bigger focus as Kane fades out of the team - either by WC 2026 or almost certainly by Euro 2028.

I think part of that probably comes down to how the international setup is being coached. I would imagine the setup Gareth and his team have is wildly different to what most of these players are used to under European managers/coaches. To get the best out of them you'd likely need a manager of a similar ilk to make the transition from club to international level more seamless. I don't think many of them are used to playing slow, defensive football that relies on individual moments of brilliance to win games. It's tough to expect them to adapt to that, and you could argue they've done well to do so over the past few years.

Not in our first season with JDT. Backwards since then, yes, but that's on Venky's. It's about making the right decisions and as it stands we're in the same place we were under TM - Championship mainstays. Similarly England are still that team who comes up short when it matters, whether it's the quarters, semis or finals. Let's take a chance Gav, see what these players can do if they're let off the leash.

Sometimes you have to be brave and ruthless to move forward. Much like with Mowbray and Rovers, sticking to the comfort zone ultimately doesn't get you to the next level. I'd be quite excited to see what this crop of young players could do under a more attacking-minded manager. Maybe that wouldn't get us there in the end either, but it'd be nice for me to be able to really enjoy watching England again and to genuinely believe we can beat an elite team.

Best team in the tournament win it, so can't complain. We're a level below Spain and it showed tonight. We had our moments but when they stepped it up we couldn't handle them. Another final lost. History only remembers the winners. Gareth has done his best, but it's best for all if he moves on now. Get a progressive manager in who can really take these young players to the next level. The potential is there. With that said, two finals in for years and we've lost both of them. Can't imagine we'll keep getting these opportunities. At some point you have to take them.

Subs do it again!

Kane off, just a shame we wasted another 60 minutes with him lumbering around doing nothing useful.