Venkys London Ltd - (BRFC immediate parent company) accounts year ending 31/3/25

[Herbie6590]

On 03/12/2025 at 06:12, roverblue said:

How on earth do wages keep going up with the culling that goes on at Ewood? Something stinks as usual 

Number of employees…

[Tomphil2]

How on earth do we end up with another 45 employees ?

[Rogerb]

I assumed this was down to change in coach and support staff and churn in players in and out the door.

Edited 18 hours ago by Rogerb

[wilsdenrover]

14 minutes ago, Herbie6590 said:

I’ve reserved the right to ask for a Porsche for Christmas 😉

I believe you’re on the naughty list. 

[Rogerb]

Think the Bank of India overdraft rates are considerably higher than UK rates.

[Herbie6590]

8 minutes ago, Tomphil2 said:

How on earth do we end up with another 45 employees ?

On average…at some points during the year presumably we were >+45 👀

[Tomphil2]

How many are we still paying that aren't here i wonder.

[...]

2 hours ago, Tomphil2 said:

How on earth do we end up with another 45 employees ?

More people and the marketing is worse than ever 

[RevidgeBlue]

3 hours ago, Herbie6590 said:

I couldn’t find a disclosure in the VLL accounts but the club banks with State Bank of India so I think we can assume it’s the same entity. 

An important point on administration - the VLL accounts specifically say that there is  NO DEBENTURE securing the overdraft. The bank therefore cannot call in an administrator, as it does not have the legal right so to do.

For Rovers to go into administration they would have be placed there voluntarily by the directors. (See Sheffield Weds). This means the club would have to be trading insolvently (which opens up the directors to personal legal action) & so the directors protect themselves by calling in an admin. 

I suspect we were getting pretty close to that point until Adam was sold. That relieved the pressure. That’s why Waggott kept trumpeting the fact that the bills being paid on time was a cause for celebration. 

The increase in O/D is interesting - because from my days in corporate lending, an unsecured loan of £12m would usually require at the very least some form of inter-company guarantee or personal guarantees from the directors to “focus the minds” of the owners.

If this O/D is truly, completely unsecured then SBI must really value the group relationship & be making plenty of money out of the arrangement fees. 

So, going off the Sheff Wed situation, am I right in thinking that if the V's were ever to put us into administration, due to the EFL "25p in the pound" rule, any potential purchaser would have to pay them a minimum of £55m?

That could be extremely problematic.

[Herbie6590]

11 hours ago, Rogerb said:

Think the Bank of India overdraft rates are considerably higher than UK rates.

2.17% over base on an unsecured overdraft is pretty competitive TBH. 

[Herbie6590]

8 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

So, going off the Sheff Wed situation, am I right in thinking that if the V's were ever to put us into administration, due to the EFL "25p in the pound" rule, any potential purchaser would have to pay them a minimum of £55m?

That could be extremely problematic.

Possibly yes…I guess you could argue that if they put us in admin they’d truly be beyond caring about any collateral damage & at least one relegation would be assured. 

There’s no getting away from the fact that Rovers have League One income but a Championship cost base.

If I was tasked with running Rovers to break even then I’d be warning the fans to expect League Two football…

[wilsdenrover]

9 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

So, going off the Sheff Wed situation, am I right in thinking that if the V's were ever to put us into administration, due to the EFL "25p in the pound" rule, any potential purchaser would have to pay them a minimum of £55m?

That could be extremely problematic.

And it could well be why they refuse to write off any of the debt (something it appears the auditor feel they should do…)

[RevidgeBlue]

22 minutes ago, wilsdenrover said:

And it could well be why they refuse to write off any of the debt (something it appears the auditor feel they should do…)

I had a look at the supposed rationale for this rule online and the thinking behind it appears to be the hope than non footballing creditors get a reasonable shake.

No good if it all goes to the person/persons who caused the problem in the first place though, it seems a ludicrous rule to me - a reward for bad ownership.

According to Simon Jordan the 25% requirement was why his consortium pulled out of the running to buy Wednesday. They didn't fancy handing over a large wedge of money to Chansiri.

[Tomphil2]

If they got given 25% of their debt back to clear off i'd be over the moon and lets be honest it's the most they'd ever get and the only way they'd ever get it.

However they go to great lengths to keep us just above the admin line so i can't see that ever changing. We'll just shrink to the level of funding they want to or can afford to put in.

Can see it coming a mile off.

Meanwhile similar clubs with similar cost base continue to get adequate funding, are ran by better football people, get better crowds due to this and remain open for new owners.

Not here though, that's not allowed.

[RevidgeBlue]

Just now, Tomphil2 said:

If they got given 25% of their debt back to clear off i'd be over the moon and lets be honest it's the most they'd ever get and the only way they'd ever get it.

If they continued to refuse to write any debt off, I'd consider the requirement for any prospective purchaser to give us at least £55m (and rising) an absolute bar to finding new owners.

Who'd want to give us that much in our current state? (If we unearthed another couple of Adam Wharton's - maybe)

I wasn't even aware of the 25% rule until the Wednesday situation cropped up.

Ludicrous imo.

 

[JHRover]

The only way this lot let us go is if they have to - either because finances dictate it or because their legal issues prevent them from owning us or sending money out of India over to us. 

They're probably best described as a modern day reincarnation of the Oystons - nobody really wants them, they run the club as an amateur outfit on the lines they are comfortable with - but always do just enough to ensure they keep control and have no intention of letting that go.

Fortunately for Blackpool fans they eventually found a legal route to his removal via the Court action of the previous major shareholder. I had my fingers and toes crossed that the Indian legal proceedings would be our answer to that. Sadly that hope seems to be fading, although some hope remains that once the Wharton/Szmodics cash runs out and there's nobody else left to sell breaking point will be reached. 

[Tomphil2]

The narrative has definitely changed in terms of the accounts now though so there has been some sort of a shift in head office and some alarm bells finally going off.

I've been of the opinion that possibly the main finance people and bankers at the VH group have taken the reigns off the loons due to all the ongoing court/investigation/asset seizing that went on.  They way it's now being run suggests a serious administration intervention in India.

I don't think the owners would sanction any sale if they can stop it but the cashing in of all assets, the wage cap, no contracts for better paid players moving forwards and the minimal reinvestment on less wages to sell in the near future all points to preparing the club for something.

Shadowman himself said the benefactor model - such as it supposedly was with them - is over so that suggests past funding levels are over for good now. 

Once this latest reset proves useless when income continues to dwindle and we don't create 10 million quid players to sell out of nothing overnight, what then ?

There really is nowhere to go and those finance people might hopefully finally insist on selling the club and finally cutting the mess away.

[RevidgeBlue]

1 minute ago, Tomphil2 said:

There really is nowhere to go and those finance people might hopefully finally insist on selling the club and finally cutting the mess away.

Agree with most of your post, but, (if you had the money) would you pay (at least) £55m for it tomorrow?

[Tomphil2]

17 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Agree with most of your post, but, (if you had the money) would you pay (at least) £55m for it tomorrow?

If they'd given the training ground back to the club it would be more attractive.

It all depends on who might fancy buying it though, a wealthy investor who wants to rebuild it or a hedge fund then 55 mill is probably way too steep but to a billionaire it's cheap.

[...]

2 hours ago, JHRover said:

The only way this lot let us go is if they have to - either because finances dictate it or because their legal issues prevent them from owning us or sending money out of India over to us. 

They're probably best described as a modern day reincarnation of the Oystons - nobody really wants them, they run the club as an amateur outfit on the lines they are comfortable with - but always do just enough to ensure they keep control and have no intention of letting that go.

Fortunately for Blackpool fans they eventually found a legal route to his removal via the Court action of the previous major shareholder. I had my fingers and toes crossed that the Indian legal proceedings would be our answer to that. Sadly that hope seems to be fading, although some hope remains that once the Wharton/Szmodics cash runs out and there's nobody else left to sell breaking point will be reached. 

That last point you make is very real. Where will the big bucks come from when that money runs out? Cantwell, Alebiouso,Toth, Gudjohnsen, Tronstadt? Beyond those there not much  at all and even these won't break the bank

Edited 2 hours ago by ...

[Bronzed A Donis]

1 hour ago, Tomphil2 said:

If they'd given the training ground back to the club it would be more attractive.

It all depends on who might fancy buying it though, a wealthy investor who wants to rebuild it or a hedge fund then 55 mill is probably way too steep but to a billionaire it's cheap.

Do you suspect they are keeping hold of Brockhall in case of any sale / Admin they have a bargaining chip to squeeze out extra cash of any possible buyer to buy it back?

They could presumably return it to the club or charge a peppercorn rent?  neither happening.

[Tomphil2]

51 minutes ago, Bronzed A Donis said:

Do you suspect they are keeping hold of Brockhall in case of any sale / Admin they have a bargaining chip to squeeze out extra cash of any possible buyer to buy it back?

They could presumably return it to the club or charge a peppercorn rent?  neither happening.

Wouldn't surprise me, as you say they could just give it back for a quid or something but as it is someone is drawing a few hundred grand a year rent money it seems.

Another odd situation in the money go round.

[wilsdenrover]

3 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

If they continued to refuse to write any debt off, I'd consider the requirement for any prospective purchaser to give us at least £55m (and rising) an absolute bar to finding new owners.

Who'd want to give us that much in our current state? (If we unearthed another couple of Adam Wharton's - maybe)

I wasn't even aware of the 25% rule until the Wednesday situation cropped up.

Ludicrous imo.

 

The debt element is currently £134 million so the 25% is ‘only’ £33.5 million.

Would someone pay that if it was all they had to pay?

[wilsdenrover]

3 hours ago, JHRover said:

The only way this lot let us go is if they have to - either because finances dictate it or because their legal issues prevent them from owning us or sending money out of India over to us. 

They're probably best described as a modern day reincarnation of the Oystons - nobody really wants them, they run the club as an amateur outfit on the lines they are comfortable with - but always do just enough to ensure they keep control and have no intention of letting that go.

Fortunately for Blackpool fans they eventually found a legal route to his removal via the Court action of the previous major shareholder. I had my fingers and toes crossed that the Indian legal proceedings would be our answer to that. Sadly that hope seems to be fading, although some hope remains that once the Wharton/Szmodics cash runs out and there's nobody else left to sell breaking point will be reached. 

Football related debtors are currently at £5.1 million.

Potential add ons are £20 million.

It could be a while yet… (let’s hope the add on criteria aren’t met!)

 

 

[RevidgeBlue]

6 minutes ago, wilsdenrover said:

The debt element is currently £134 million so the 25% is ‘only’ £33.5 million.

Would someone pay that if it was all they had to pay?

Ah ok. I'll bow to your superior knowledge. 🙂

Thought you'd always said previously they had their "investment" in the Club down at £220m.

At £33.5m it's somewhat more attractive especially if Brockhall is included.