Blue blood

You do know I was being sarcastic right? Living in Leeds has lowered my tolerance of them.

But, but Leeds can't go down. They are a massive club with a huge fan base who play football "the right way". Surely that's enough to secure their place in the top flight?

Me too! Pressure off Rovers perform.

You mean like 5 years with no questioning of results, rediculously limited forced sales, a decent budget, an academy churning out championship standard players, state of the art training facilities and a one and a half year assess the squad free hit? Poor old Tony having it so tough here.

Some really good points here. Interestingly in past times Coyle.and Grayson may have fitted the bill from this criteria (Coyle got Burnley promoted on a shoe string, Grayson worked under batnuts owners at Blackpool and got promoted on a budget.) Not suggesting either - although at one point I though Grayson was the way to go - but rather to illustrate the right fit is possible even in our challenging circumstances. As to uniting the fans I don't think that's an issue. Venkys don't care about owner popularity or anything else it seems and so won't not appoint or quickly sack just because the fans don't like him.

Annoyingly we don't even need a good manager, just the right fit for this club. Don't get me wrong I would prefer a good manager but every manager it seems has a club where it clicks. Hasslebank at Burton is the prime example of this. Goodness even Coyle who was useless (and am not advocating a reappointment) worked well at the Dingles for a few years. And contraversially I'd say Souness and us - never rated him prior to Rovers, but he excelled with us. That we haven't appointed a good candidate or the right fit in so many appointments is dodgy as hell. Surely we should have got one right by now, even by chance, if there weren't untoward happenings.

If your entire season is based on one player not being unavailable and performing at levels way above anything they have performed at in their career, it could be argued you haven't planned very well... Also what about every other capitulation? The common denominator of a poor manager perhaps?

Gav never think you are having a go whether you agree or disagree with me. That said if we are talking about reality aren't most of these stone cold facts? The only one which is more opinion based is the squad quality which I will come on too. All the others are in the record book in black and white - a grim reality indeed. He's an upgrade on Coyle but surely that can't be the standard? Better than utterly useless? I would agree that I don't hold too much blame for getting relegated as we were dire under Coyle and has several years of having the squad decimated when TM took over. But its not much of an endorsement, better than Coyle. Continuing on Coyle here's the rub. Firstly Dack alone cost twice, thrice what Coyle got to spend on fees. You can't say where are Coyle's 10 million assets when he has had zero to spend compared to TM. That's hardly a fair comparison. TM did hit the jackpot with a few players but when the cheap ones costs significantly more that Coyle's budget it really can't be considered a fair comparison whatsoever and of course you would expect improvements. Again though better than Coyle - even of it were a fair comparison - isn't enough. I doubt we would get 60 million for them. Partly because of mismanaging contracts - owners and manager to blame for that- and partly because that's highly unrealistic. Armstrong went for £15 m and he had shown form over a longer period than Diaz. Dack won't go for a big fee after 2 injuries and Kaminski probably isn't going to fetch that much either. (And I think we should steer clear of Keepers here, given we sold Raya for pittance.) Also it's disingenuous to put Dolan in that bracket as he's nowhere near that level at present. In terms of squad better than arrived. I'd say marginally at best. Which for 5 years work is appalling. We have holes all over the place and if the new manager can't invest the Diaz money, he will inherit a squad that's pretty toothless in attack with a ton of gaps everywhere. No right back. One good centre back. Short in midfield and out wide. And Gally is the best of our attackers. It's hard to say that's there's massive improvement for 5 years. We have some promising youngsters, although TM inherited some of those as well. So there's much of a muchness imo. I'd say marginally better as we do have Travis, a solid keeper (which is huge) Warton and I think Buckley will go far in the game when he has stopped being shunted about. But outside of these 4, the squad looks threadbare or poor. If that's the sum total of 5 years journey you wonder what the heck has been done. Also that's 5 years with no enforced sales save Armstrong. 5 years without having to worry about results. Contrast that with previous managers continually having to sell our best players and get results it's a pretty good gig. Should have left much more in that time. (for the purpose of this I am assuming Diaz will be off, but then equally Coyle had Hanley and Duffy leave which totally sunk the defence. Given the writing was on the wall for this in all 3 cases I think that is a fair comparison.) It could have. And getting out of league 1 was key and a good achievement. But could be worse doesn't mean he's done a good job whatsoever. I mean if that's our standard, crap, as oppose to scraping the bottom of the barrel couldn't be any worse crap, then we may as well pack it in. Being not quite as bad is not a ringing endorsement. Agree on this. It's why we keep getting them.

Personally I am highly impressed with TM. I'm impressed that after 5 years he leaves us in scarcely any better place than when he arrived. I'm impressed so many people think he is honourable despite having told enough whoppers to feel at home in the government and having slated the fans repeatedly. I'm impressed we have had so many death spirals. I didn't think it was possible to implode after Christmas year in year out. Im impressed we somehow missed playoffs despite our strong position and our rivals all slipping up plenty. I'm impressed that he has played players in positions even a 4 year old would balk to play them. Well done Tony, it's a belting job you have done. Surprised me left right and centre.

Not a good manager - agree. Honest decent fellow? Hardly. Bar Kean has maligned the fans more. He's not a decent fellow. that said it's shambolic from the owners as well. Good to see we are still an all round basket case.

I don't think they will but aren't Millwall on the same points as us and in with a shout too? Very unlikely but they have a good manager and with Luton up there I don't feel they can totally be ignored. Classic Rovers would be for Boro and Sheff to drop points but Millwall outscore us to take 6th...

Am delighted with the result and performance, but I'm also pretty sure what the difference is. The pressure is off as it's not in our hands. Sheff Utd and Boro needs to both throw it away for us to get in - unlikely both will. Once the pressure is off we perform, just like in previous seasons.

Top post. Isn't this gaslighting? How can he not be challenged on these. He's not as bad as Kean overall by a long shot but his comments are just as bad. No doubt about it.

The huge miss from there is Rowatt. Look what he's done with Millwall. He'd be miles better than TM.

Tell you what. If Everton stay up this season then they will be mightily worried about next. Unless there are three worse teams they will be in huge trouble. Can't see Lampard lasting the duration of next season.

I'm shocked TM is allowed to get away with such whoppers. It's a young team. Kaminski an international GK. Nayambe 4+ seasons in this division plus a league 1 promotion, ditto Lenihen, Warton 3 years of lower league football, Johnson as old as the hills, Travis 3+ years in the championship, Gally I've lost count of how many seasons he's lumbered about, Bereton 4 seasons and an international. Not exactly a team bereft of experience, hardly a young team whatsoever. Only 2 were in their first championship season. The lying snake. As for the atmosphere. We gave away a goal after 3 minutes. Our only forays into their penalty area for the first 40 minutes were a couple of free kicks - we couldn't manage it from open play. School of thought but maybe give the fans something to cheer about? Also with our weak attempts at attacking at the end of the first half were greeted with massive approval and endorsement from the crowd as if watching total football. To blame it on the fans is an utter lie. The fans snaffled up every crumb of hope in the first half - issue was there was so few of them. We offered literally nothing. They were very lucky it's the forgiving lot left because in Jack's day that sort of performance would have seen a lot harsher reaction. Man of integrity - as if. Another lying lowlife polluting this club.

So the verdict from the other side of the world (sister back from NZ) is rudderless. I find it hard to disagree. First half was appalling, second half better and perhaps unlucky to not force a draw, but if you don't turn up for 45 mins then you only have yourself to blame. First half was beyond terrible. One of the worst performances I can remember. Second half much better - especially with Rothwell and Buckley (who would have thought it?) The team looked more comfortable in a 4-3-3 - the centre backs weren't lunging forward recklessly and since the wingbacks weren't attacking being full backs suited them better. It was interesting getting a Rovers fan's take on the players with no baggage. Interestingly summed up a lot of common belief on here. Player comments were as follows; Johnson useless and invisible. Gally - not sure he's in control of all his body. Dolan - anonymous Centre backs all looked hapless first half. Positively Travis put himself about and the subs looked lively. Pickering looked ok too. I'd agree with most of this sunmary. Only things I would add to that is Nayambe was very disappointing going forwards. So frustrating. Not after Cafu but a bit of forward drive would help. I'd also add that 20 minutes walloping a ball long to Dolan is the height of stupidity. Oh and we got lucky with the penalty decision at the end. Clear as day penalty imo. Still didn't change the score and incredibly we somehow arent out of the playoff hunt (albeit unlikely).despite our diabolical run. Did I mention that first half was an affront to all the fans. It was played on the beach.

A few kind of firsts for us tomorrow. My sister's first game in a long, long time since she's over from NZ. As someone who emigrated in the early Venkys years it will be interesting to see what a relatively fresh set of eyes - yet one won to Rovers on the magic of the Souness years - makes of the team, the ground and so forth. It's also my first trip since baby Bb so it will be interesting watching games back in person. (We will ignore the fact that Rovers form has spiraled since baby Bb arrived. I'm sure that's an unhappy coincidence.) Prior to this absence a lot of people bar myself were still quite favourable to TM. Interesting if that's still the case. My thoughts. A Rovers win. We are due one, things are out of our hands so the pressure is off a bit, and Stoke aren't any great shakes. We often get a reaction as the murmurs of discontent grow. Not aiming for a Mercer but I have a good feeling about this one.

Maybe they want someone to.l make Maguire look good? We've had some good loans over the years. He definitely wasn't one of them.

I find it hard to disagree. What makes it frustrating is so many favours are being done for us. Yes Luton went against us but other results went for us especially the Sheff Utd one. So it's doubly frustrating. Lack of accountability is huge. We must be the only club where results don't matter. To have 3 horror runs in 5 seasons and still be in post. It's unheard of.

Not that it matters since we can't do the business but a Luton win was bad for us. Forest are likely to bounce back but Luton I felt was more likely to fall away and a more realistic prospect for us to catch. So a win makes it harder. Mind you it's all academic since we can't beat the worst team in the league.

Last paragraph is a bit of a low blow Matty. Not needed. First is a better question. I guess in terms of a proven track record over time he's less well-known. I guess to less interested owners and less interested fans he would be less known. Do a poll at Ewood last year and I reckon a fair chunk couldn't answer who was Swansea manager. I mean obviously you hope that for your club those doing the appointments have their fingers on the pulse so to speak and are aware of everyone known and less well known - and such a candidate would be on their radar - but we are also aware that's totally not the case with us or necessarily with other clubs.

1 That's the problem 2 That's a stackable statement. What an arrogant pancake flipper.

Personally am with Tyrone on this. I had heard of him but blimey he said relatively unknown. I don't think it's a wild inaccuracy to call someone who has only 2 years experience outside the top flight relatively unknown. In fact I'd say relatively makes nod to both his achievements and new status. I also think there's a fair bit of a certain poster misunderstanding the English language deliberately too..

When Paul sodding Ince has a better win-loss ratio than you, you know it's time to call it a day...