We are another good striker away from being a good team. Even when playing badly if we had someone with either a bit of presence, threat of trickery in them, we would be more likely to get a few comebacks. (Dack perhaps could be that person...) As it is we have the most useless back up strike duo in Vale and Hirst since Varney and Brown. Stuffed how anyone thinks these guys are going to be a success

I wouldn't disagree with you here buddy. (Other than I know his wages aren't that, it's hypothetical as in if he were on that he would still be in the team ) My initial point was on talent alone no one would put him behind the other two. As for the other two and at what level £ better bet. Thing is I don't really rate either of them. The pragmatist in me is happy to trade Dack for 2 longer term decent players but neither of them strike me as decent. Neither has shown me anywhere near enough to make that kind of swap. Neither seem to be able to cut it at this level or look likely to. So at the moment I wouldn't make the swap with those 2 said players. With others, yes.

I doubt JDT does think they are better. More a case of him wanting the wages for his players or someone else putting pressure on to get rid. Maybe he doesn't think Dacks value for money for his talent. However I seriously doubt it's on pure ability Dacks not in the team! Put it this way, if his wages were around £4-5k/week I've no doubt he'd be ahead of both of the other 2.

If anyone genuinely thinks Hirst or Vale are better options off the bench than Dack then they need to go to Specsavers. I get it's a game of opinions but neither of them have shown anything whatsoever. Contrast with what Dack has ability wise and his potential to return to pre injury Dack and it's a no brainer that he is miles better as an impact sub. Can his wages be spent much better for the y? Absolutely - but not till Jan. Therefore he remains the best (or one of) attacking options from the bench and should be used accordingly.

Yes. No. And the 2 are mutually exclusive. Certainly, Bereton for example did nothing for 2 years despite costing a huge sum for us, and yet there were no consequences for TM of having used such a huge chunk of his budget for no return for 2 years and no commensurate return for 3. Can't think of any other club where that would be allowed.

Sad if appointing on friendship rather than ability. I'm not sure knowing the club or similar really helps unless it's a basket case or particular set of circumstances. I'm all for an experienced number 2 rookie manager with the right background research but my word if Woodgate is the experience it's a worrying lookout.

Who would want Woodgate on their staff? He's done crap as a manager and stepped in when his former boss got the boot. Hardly that experienced either. Not sure what he brings.

Football is a game of opinions and there are many ways of seeing the same thing. Perspective makes a difference. That said when you have 3 relegation worthy streaks running months on end, when good players regularly can run down contracts, when the CEO - or whatever Waggots official title is (if he doesn't have one I can make some suggestions) gets away with poor attendances year on year, when big investments take years to come to fruition - I can't see how that shouts out anything other than indifferent. If that's them bothered then heaven help us if they lose interest.

Who would have thought a league with more than 2 strong teams would have been more difficult? Can't say he wasn't backed either. Early days given it's a few months at QPR but was Beale the power behind the hottest?

Excellent I'd say. Especially given QPR could lose their manager which may disrupt them somewhat.

If they rely on those 3 for goals then they really should be fired. Clearly non of those 3 are remotely near to carrying the burden. Goodness I'm not even sure what Hirst brings to the party.

Shame about the Birmingham equaliser 🙂

We say it every year how weak the Championship is but this year it must be true: this is the worst championship quality wise ever. WBA shed load of talent doing badly. Ditto Watford. Teams with limited resources like QPR and Luton doing well. Burnley for all their financial clout and position in the league haven't seemed convincing, or at least not dominant, to me. Lots of draws and a rookie manager suggests they aren't going to run away with it. Norwich have looked even less convincing this year and reliant on individuals. So the prem trio won't run away with it. Boro spent big yet are struggling. Sheff Utd seem a good bet but how good is Heckingbottom as a manager. Again they haven't looked head and shoulders above everyone. Perennial strugglers such as Rotherham and Wigan are getting points, which speaks volumes. Sunderland have TM and the new year to look forward to. In short there's never been a better time to get promoted than this year (again)

In fairness he probably went off injured in half those games. That's an average of 25 games per season which I'm not too sure what to make of. Given there are 46 league games per year it's pretty poor, although it's vastly more than I recall him making.

I could be wrong but I think they weren't too convincing earlier in the season too, especially at the start, but then their individual quality started to get them some points. So I think it might be a case that it hasn't clicked properly all season and they rely on individuals bailing them out. As for Waggot by any stretch he's a dud. Crowds, sacking an underperforming manager, recruiting the current one (I think it was GB who did it according to reports), tying players down to contracts, the training ground debacle. On any level he's an utter failure. Back to the Championship. Interesting to see Luton still punching above their weight.

One way or another i'm sure he'll take credit for it...

Rovers youth production is hugely impressive (without sales we probably could put out near a first 11 from our academy) but I doubt Vale is going to be one of those successes. Top is fantastic. Yes there are games in hand for people but they can't and won't all win them all and having points on the board is huge and puts pressure on other teams. With no team looking scary or impressive on a regular basis this makes top even more promising. Delighted, over the moon, to beat that utter charlatan and fraud TM. Crap manager, crap person and - for them a crap result to go with it.

How can we be besting the mighty Sunderland with a manager we were lucky to have? Come on Rovers. Great news to tune into. Maybe the players have something to prove to TM, sounds like they are busting a gut. Dolan being used appropriately here as a nuisance sub. Glad to see promising signs from Garrett. Glad to see Evans in a different jersey.

I also asked should we let the Wharton lads run their contracts down? Not internationals but pretty crucial to us. And as for the 3 I think Nayambe regularly plays for his country and Lenihen has a few caps? Also it's championship level Vs prem level, but I think you can make the adjustment unless you are saying it's a different story for the premier league? Perhaps most pertinently all three were established in the Rovers team. And that what counts most to the club. Firstly all three were in their prime and therefore saleable assets. You talk about them getting older but they weren't at the twilight of their career by any stretch. To say they had no value because of their age blatantly isn't true. Not true about the fees either. Rothwell for example we reputedly turned down a fee of £6 million for which is a sizeable fee. Also given what other players of similar calibre have gone for I would suggest the fees would be decent. Even if the fees aren't great (which I don't think would be true) then to quote Tesco every little helps. Even if we got a fraction of what it costs through selling them that still would have contributed significantly to funding the replacements. Britain for example was £1 million, even the most pessimistic of views would show we'd have certainly recouped that. The lack of fees could very likely be the difference between at least one more addition and not. This is the debate - how much are the club to blame? Glad we agree the club did arse it up. I think 50:50 is too generous to the club. If we had things sorted in time then a decision on a non signing player could have made with at least a year, maybe 18 months to go. That way we'd have got some return on them. Instead that's when we start negotiations leaving us up the creak. Given it's also happened with Armstrong and Bereton I think it shows the trend of the club badly managing this. Also given players can and do run down contracts it's something the club should have been prepared for. I'd say 80:20 minimum the club are to blame.

I get football is all about opinions but this is pretty silly. Chelsea should let Mount and James go for free because they came through the ranks and cost nothing? Or TAA from Liverpool. Maybe the Wharton lads should be allowed to run down their contract? Terrible logic. Also given the fees we paid for Brittan and Hyam and SS it clearly did cost us something to replace them. I mean they literally cost fees. Two of the three literally are like for like replacements. To say it doesn't cost us anything is a denial of reality. I'd also question the issue that no one wanted them on a number of fronts. Most pertinently though we wanted them, hence the contract offers and we didn't get them, so it's hardly like it's no loss given that we wanted them to stay. I also have doubts there's any club who lost so much of their team for free but haven't any stats to hand. Mind you that doesn't really matter as when you are going to make up straw man arguments like costing us nothing. I'm afraid on this one it's pretty undisputable the club dropped a clanger.

And the money used to sign Gally! Of all the clangers in TMs time this has to be the worst. It was so obvious Raya had that potential and to replace him.woth arguably the worst ever Rovers keeper (comfortably top 3) was madness.

Lots of the prime candidates have been mentioned. One that hasn't and sticks out for me is when we lost onetime to manure 2-0 in torrential rain. Think it was under Big Sam. All I remember is being soaked both on the way to and on the way back from the game, us not laying a glove on manure and them not getting out of first gear.

Good that we can disagree respectfully. The one thing I can't see how you can say - and apologies if I am overstating your case/misunderstanding you - is that all the young players filling out the squad will be a success. I just cannot see how you or the club can bank on that given that it never happens that all youth players introduced to the first team squad step up to make the grade. Every club throughout history has seen this not be the case, so I don't see how you or the club can really bank on this. Blimey even using Rovers as an example we have seen that to be the case. From Marlon Brooms to JRC there have been tons of.very talented youngsters who have entered the squad and not made it. Then there's the load who take time to develop - look at how long Bereton was a dead weight, Nayambe when he broke into the first team, how many loans out Wharton has had (one too many, he was ready earlier imo but I digress.) Quite simply no team can rely on an entire cohort of youngsters to step up and fill the squad in a season. History proves that to be the case. Now I'm not saying some of them won't, but to expect Phillips, JRC, A Wharton, Garrett, Vale and maybe a few more to all be squad players just isn't going to happen. Some will make it, some won't. That's facts of football. Assuming the whole lot will is folly by the club and something I don't think we can count on whatsoever.

Sorry mate totally disagree on a couple of points 🙂 I think the squad is still super thin. For example what defensive mid have we got besides Travis? Or any experience in the middle for that matter. Who is the right back cover? When Gally is your second best striker there are issues. I'd say we look thin in a few places, and in a lot more are banking on youth to cover and be adequate squad players. If I've learned one thing in football it's some youth players will make it but some definitely won't, even promising ones. So yeah it seems thin to me. Thanks for more info on Bereton. Helpful to know and lower than I thought. That said it could do a lot of good still even with the 8 million or so. Not saying this is totally accurate but check out the fees according to this website. Basically the Bereton money, even the 8 mill could have paid for most clubs top 2 or 3 most expensive signings. Still a fair whack to miss out on even if it is way lower than hoped. https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/championship/transfers/wettbewerb/GB2 So yeah, to me we really should have sold and reinvested.

Not sure any of that endorses them Chaddy! At 18 months negotiate, 12 months get rid and recoup some money. Or even better yet start negotiations a darn sight earlier - that would stop them playing contract chicken with us (or at least leave us better served when they do ) the more I think on it 18 months is cutting it fine. As for the cheap offers for Bereton, assuming that Venkys weren't going to trouser it (admittedly a possibility in which you keep the player) then a cheap offer would have still enabled us to rebuild the team. £10 million wasn't it? That's 2 or 3 new additions to a thin squad. Players who the manager chose. Goodness even if we couldn't have found a striker in budget for a permanent, getting a good PL loan and strengthening a couple of other positions would have still seen us in a better position next summer to be finding a permanent replacement for Bereton. As it is there's been no money to strengthen and we are looking to replace him with zero incoming funds. So whilst they've given JDT a bit of money this year, the underlying decision making and business planning is still woeful.