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A good summary of the game. I'm glad that you had a good time. If Austria had a final ball France would have lost. They caused Mbappe and crew problems until the final 3rd, and the goal they conceded came from two sloppy Austrian passes gifting the ball back to France. It's looking like Mbappe being out for the Netherlands game. They have enough quality in reserve to replace him, but they'll still miss him. So far there is no clear favourite. Germany would probably have put 3 or 4 past 11-man Scotland. Spain beat an ageing Croatia so it's hard to judge both. Also, thanks for your observations on logistics. Germany's trains are good, yet I have met Germans who laugh that the thought of them being efficient.

Jason Steele mark II? From what I remember of him he was every bit as bads as Pears yet is now a Premier League squad regular. Football is indeed strange.

I'd cut Denmark some slack in the group stage, especially the Finland game. They had all just watched Eriksen collapse and almost die on the pitch. Their mental recovery was quite remarkable.

It is indeed a different game now. As has been debated in the Euros thread decades ago countries had different styles. The teams from the British Isles got it forward quickly. South American teams were full of flair but lacked defensive discipline, Spain flattered to deceive, Germany were ruthless, African teams were a true wildcard. I do miss that. Todays game has been homogenised, yet it is helping England.

I'd take today's game over the dark ages of the 70's and 80's 10 times out of 10. I'm sure that you had a great time, and being young and carefree was wonderful for me too, but what I have heard, read, and saw (late 80's so it was dying out) I am glad that that era of football is gone.

Ferdinand was close, Gerrard was another who was stifled when he played for England. The last 3 no. Gary Neville had no competition for his spot. We've debated ad nauseum on here about the underperforming on the "golden generation". Club rivalries, bad luck, and a still evolving style contributed to it. Southgate has a system and has built a unified squad, which can go a long way.

Italy should also have lost to Australia in the first knock out round. Without looking the game up someone (maybe Totti) got sent off and Lucas Neill was involved in either a missed pen or an own goal. Italy are also seasoned in how to play tournament football.

He is an interesting one. I have heard plenty of pundits wax lyrical about how good he was since he retired. He was excellent for Man U but he never hit the heights for England. Sven's lack of a left sided midfielder forced him into some unorthodox decisions, and Scholes suffered as a result.

England did have some bad luck as you highlighted. However, as good as some of the players were and ignoring Greece's 2004 fluke win Sven's England teams were still a level below the teams who won trophies. The 2002 Brazil team had Ronaldo, Rivaldo, Ronaldinho, Cafu, and Roberto Carlos. France 2004 and 2006 still had Zidane, Henry, Makelele, Thuram, and more. Italy in 2006 - Del Piero, Totti, Buffon, Cannavaro, Pirlo. Sven's teams had 3 world class players - Ashley Cole, Wayne Rooney, and Michael Owen. Unfortunately, only Ashley Cole was consistent. Rooney was a bit too young (see 2006 sending off) and Owen was a shadow of his former self.

Euro 2004 central defenders - John Terry, Sol Campbell, Ledley King, Jamie Carragher. Woodagte would have gone but was injured late in the Prem season. Rickie Lambert was in the WC 2014 squad. I'd rather be in the position England are in now though.

I agree with 10 of your 11. Wharton is the wild card. All of us on here want him to stat but I think it will be Alexander-Arnold.

You got it right. Trafford was indeed an easy one to call but I am surprised at Branthwaite getting chopped, especially as Maguire (who's international career is more than likely now over) is out.

Official notice; BBC - Maguire and Grealish out With Maddison, Quansah, and Jones already confirmed gone we'll see if @roverandout is right on what he posted in the Wharton thread that Trafford and Branthwaite are the final 2.

It looks like 3 are already gone; ESPN: Maddison, Jones, Quansah out of England squad Of the 3 only Maddison may have a quibble, although I don't. He was in the WC 2022 squad and has played in qualifiers.

Maybe he did learn? On Boxing Day 2022 his Sunderland team beat Rovers 2-1 with them scoring a late late winner.

How are you going to fit both Grealish and Gallagher into your team? Southgate will probably play a 4-2-3-1. Neither Grealish or Gallagher are defenders so where ae you going to put them? As @roversfan99 stated, the front 4 will be Bellingham, Foden, and Saka playing behind Kane. Rice is a definite behind those 4, leaving is one spot up for grabs next to Rice. You have stated that you want Rice in midfield, and both Grealish and Gallagher in the starting 11. Therefore, you have to drop one of Foden, Bellingham, Saka, Kane to make that happen. Who are you going to leave out?

Watkins hasn't impressed in his last 2 outings. He was poor last night and was ineffective back in March. England's game is more suited to Toney as he is similar to Kane in the way he plays. Watkins plays off the shoulder making runs in behind. England use Kane as a focal point with the wide players forging ahead. Toney holds play up better so to me would seemingly be the understudy, but Watkins offers something different. Gallagher works his socks off, but can't play an incisive pass, doesn't score enough, and can get caught in possession, but I do agree with you that he has attributes that can help in certain situations. Grealish is feeling the heat as he hasn't played much for City. Unlike Rashford he did what was expected when he did play, he didn't sulk, and often times when a player isn't playing for Guardiola it's not down to them it's Guardiola deciding to do something else. Bowen is a good player but Southgate has too much talent ahead of him. For me he's behind Gordon, who I don't think is going.

Wharton did look decent when he came on, he got a decent write up from the BBC too. Although if this was a Leeds forum I doubt we'd be signing his praises as much. You can't read much into the game but I thought Trent AA did well. I always lean on the opinion that Southgate would prefer experience so I think he'll get the 3rd midfield spot. I also think that because of that Grealish will go too. His cameo was bright. I agree with you on Gomez, he can play anywhere across the back 4. Southgate has somewhat limited his own options by picking Shaw and Maguire who are currently injured. All signs are that Maguire will be fit, but less so Shaw who hasn't played much at all this season. Using my powers of bad guess work I have Southgate dropping these 7; Trafford, Quansah, Konsa, Jones, Bowen, Gordon, Maddison. I'm no fan of Gallagher but I think his energy gets him in. Wharton and Mainoo get in as they are specialist midfielders. Palmer is in as he has something about him. Dunk, although not the quickest, is an older head who can do a job. Gordon being injured is no good for him. If he was in Southgate's preferred 11 he'd be OK, but he's a newcomer who plays wide forward. Southgate has loads of options there. Eze sneaks in ahead of Maddison, going against the experience opinion I applied to TAA.

I have started more than one Champions League threads on this forum over the years. I didn't do so this year as, despite my love of all things football, I wasn't enthused by this year's competition. The final encapsulated my apathy. It was a very boring game. Dortmund were by far the better side in the first half but missed easy chances, therefore, it was only a matter of time before Real scored. A thoroughly underwhelming game. Bellingham was poor - why does he wear what looks like NFL shoulder pads? Kroos is a class act. He's won so many trophies. Yet would he make the first 11 in an all time German team?

Ten Hag getting the boot; The Guardian: Ten Hag to be fired after cup final I doubt that the Guardian would have reported it if it wasn't going to happen.

This is a decent summary of the whole squad from Phil McNulty at the BBC; BBC - Ruthless Southgate

Chelsea have binned Pochettino after one season; BBC: Pochettino leaves Chelsea What a reward for someone who looked like he'd finally figured out what he wanted to do. Boehly and his crew have spent enough money to fund the NHS for a good period of time and it has got them nothing. Now they'll have to pay out even more money in compensation to Pochettino and offer a lucrative contract to a new manager who will have the same task as his predecessor of to figure out what to with a bloated squad of expensive Panini sticker misfits, all being carried by Cole Palmer.

I was looking at old squads myself. It is interesting to see. 5 of your first 6 switched teams since Euro 2021. Them not making this squad shows that the grass is not always greener, and with 3 of them at Man U I'd tell other young English players to keep away. Mainoo should leave now. The rest of them, aside from Coady who's past it and Ben White who hates Southgate, have been derailed by injuries. I am not bothered that any of the players you listed are not in. James and Sancho were once touted as being potential world beaters. James has appeared in roughly half of Chelsea's premier league games in the last 4 seasons, and Sancho is only now getting back to showing what he can do after 2 disastrous years at Old Trafford.

No Chilwell makes me think that Southgate has been given positive reports on Shaw. He has used Trippier at left back plenty too. Quansah and Branthwaite are there for the experience. They both look very good. Is Colwill injured? He looked like he'd play a big part at this tournament. A left footed central defender is a rare find. I wouldn't be worried about Mainoo, he was the only calm head in a sputtering Man U team.

Full squad here; ESPN: Rashford, Henderson out of Euro squad Goalkeepers: James Trafford, Dean Henderson, Aaron Ramsdale, Jordan Pickford Defenders: Jarrad Branthwaite, Jarrell Quansah, Luke Shaw, Marc Guehi, Ezri Konsa, Lewis Dunk, Joe Gomez, Kyle Walker, Harry Maguire, John Stones, Kieran Trippier Midfielders: Adam Wharton, Kobbie Mainoo, Curtis Jones, Conor Gallagher, Declan Rice, Trent Alexander-Arnold Forwards: Ivan Toney, Ollie Watkins, Anthony Gordon, Harry Kane, Phil Foden, Cole Palmer, Jude Bellingham, Bukayo Saka, James Maddison, Jarrod Bowen, Eberechi Eze, Jack Grealish Southgate stalwarts Henderson, Rashford, and Phillips are out. Not one of them deserves a spot so fair play to Southgate. I doubt they will but all 3 of them should look at choices they've made over the past year or so. Henderson is winding down his career but going to Saudi Arabia was a bad idea. Ditto with Phillips signing for City, it completely derailed his career. So much so that West Ham gave up on him. As for Rashford, he has been moping around all season and now he is suffering the consequences of that. He needed to leave Man U 2 seasons ago. He is too comfortable and is able to get away with things that wouldn't cut it elsewhere. All of us on here want Wharton in, and I'm glad he made the initial 33. Looking at who is listed as a midfield player I agree with @joey_big_nosethat TAA is looking like the favourite to play alongside Rice. A few on here like Tomori, Southgate obviously doesn't. I am surprised at Joe Gomez. Maybe he's there as he can play anywhere across the back 4. If not for injuries at the wrong time he'd have had Maguire's spot.