Did the u-23s play in the whatever-it's-called trophy (used to be LDV Vans ages ago, I forget the current sponsor)? I thought as a top category academy we went into it if we weren't league one or below.

Shouldn't be possible this time. The winner automatically goes up now. Bizarre that it was ever not the case.

You're really going to have to!

He did have some of his best games there to be fair. But that's a long time ago now and he happened to be in an excellent vein of form. The odd spark aside, he hasn't been very good at the creative stuff this season. To go from Dack to Bennett would really reduce our goal threat.

The thought of Benno in our most key creative spot scares me. And we are great at conceding late goals...plus the curse of the ex...I can see why people are predicting Palmer to spoil the party in injury time.

Looked a stupid move then, to me. That said, Mowbray watches every single u-23 game. He knows these players. If it comes to us using youth team defenders, that will be on him for better or worse. If they prove they can slot right in or even excel, it was a genius decision. If they cost us points it was stupid. There's no luck involved either way, and if it comes to it then I hope nobody on either side of the debate tries to pretend there is.

Do we? In that position? Who the fook are they?

This discussion has utterly lost me...context?

You seem to be assuming I was looking to argue with you just because I quoted you. I can see why, but I wasn't.

First is better, but I'd still be plenty happy with that.

On the other hand we are still at what would probably have been our level now without any of it happening. The Venkys saga is only so nightmarish because the dream was so glorious. That and the farcical elements of course.

Yes if our own result wouldn't really affect us. Yes if it meant missing out on Europe or something. Probably no if it meant us getting relegated.

Not signed a professional contract yet? He's 20....

And if you needed someone to impersonate a donkey you'd favour Brereton? (Just kidding before anyone jumps on me)

That's damning, I hope you're wrong. If Brereton is a worse player than Nuttall and Butterworth then we really have dropped a bollock with this one. You're inferring he might be worse than one or two of the other attackers too? I can't quite tell.

I said we got Travis from elsewhere, and I know we pick up people who left other clubs, but if they've been here a while before playing in the first team then I consider them home grown. Lenihan was at Rovers nearly 4 years before he played for the first team. We developed him, and my point was about how we develop youth players. Not just how we develop people who have been with us since 10. Ultimately you get every player from someone else, that's half the point of grass roots football.

We have churned out decent defenders, mostly, from our youth system in recent years. Aside from Jones and Hanley we've had Lenihan, Nyambe, O'Connell (god that was a stupid sale), Travis (originally a right back yeh?). At one point Henley even looked a player, briefly. We currently have fringe or potential in the likes of Wharton, Platt, Grayson, Magloire. Seems like defenders have the best chance of breaking into the team from the academy. Only exceptions I think have been Travis (after converting, and nearly didn't get the chance to properly break through), Mahoney and arguably Nuttall (don't really count him the same as Travis...we picked them both up from other clubs but Nuttall was a fair bit older when we did I think, and made first team appearances quickly). I suppose if we are going back as far as Jones and Hanley there was also Hoilett.

Even Leutwiler and Antonsson wasn't really exploring the foreign 'market', as they both came to us from British clubs. Although foreign players over here are usually a bit better value for money than English ones, the real value is in foreign players still playing overseas in economically weak leagues.

Not a Rovers fan though, or it'd have been spiked with cyanide!

Never seen the point in this notion. Spending a lot of money to reduce our capacity to 8k less than we got in a game at the end of last season. Close the Riverside for now, by all means, though. Some like their cheap seats though and wouldn't like it.

I agree, it feels like the final nail in the coffin to me too. He had impressed lately again off the bench and it was a perfect opportunity. If TM doesn't trust him after recent cameos I just don't feel he ever will. Which is strange because he pursued him for 6 months. Rothwell has limitations, sure, but he has deserved a lot more game time than he has had. Tony needs to start replacing the old guard quicker. Conway has shown that his excellent showing at Sheff Weds was a fluke and he needs to be no more than emergency cover, then let go in the summer. No sense holding others back for his sake.

Do you think it would take 4-5 players to make up our 4 (potentially 7) point gap? 4-5 fairly average to decent ones maybe, but I'd say just one quality player in the right area (I'd say defence given our weakness there) could do the job.

Very well, apology accepted as long as it isn't more of that famed sarcasm. Ah shit, I'd best put my BA dual honours in the bin, no wonder I can't keep up.

Don't be too disconsolate. Better to be fucking, than not fucking.

Well, I'm not sure it was his best game, but it was his best game in a while. He had a couple of decent cameos that actually changed the game, back when he got a couple of assists. At that point he actually probably merited a start, which he didn't get. I think his confidence has been tanked since. Today he didn't impact the game quite the same, but he looked confident and keen, which has been sorely lacking. He also showed some decent touches etc, and for the first time since those better cameos, I was actually starting to think 'OK yeh, maybe there is a decent player in there'. Up to him to press on now, only he can do it.