I know what you're saying, but I think we and they need each other equally as badly. Take the "big four" out of the Premiership and what's it's attraction? You'd merely be left with an extended Championship. I think we're kidding ourselves if we think Charlton v Fulham or Blackburn v Bolton is any more attractive to the neutral than say Sothampton v Leicester or Derby v Wolves. By the same token if the "big four" were thinking of breaking away I can't believe there's any real appetite amongst the vast majority of football fans for playing European football every week as opposed to their more local rivals.

John Williams is whistling into the wind if he expects a more equal distribution of TV money. The only pressure from the big clubs is likely to be for an adjustment the other way.

Not for me, I miss Kuqi about as much as Ashley Ward. Stead is a different matter and I was pleased to see he'd scored three goals in consecutive games recently having gone on loan to Derby.

A bit harsh that, I've been as critical as anyone about the front two recently but thought they were both much improved yesterday. Nonda's goal was an exceptional piece of skill, one of the best I've seen, every time I see the replay I still can't work out how he got it in. The question is, it's no good doing it once, can they both keep it up? Elsewhere, it was also an excellent performance all over the pitch with just about everyone right on top of their games, MGP excluded. I also thought Bentley was fairly anonymous in the centre. We looked enthusiastic and like we wanted it when we had the ball which hasn't generally been the case this season. If the crowd was indeed 16,700 and something (it looked far less) then that was actually quite a good turn out considering the time of year, the form we've been in, the following of about 100 from Fulham and the fact the corresponding fixture drew a lower crowd back in sunny August on the opening home game of last year. All in all a very satisfactory day's work (vital in view of the fact Sheff Utd won again) but two absolutely crucial fixtures to be successfully negotiated next before we can start feeling too pleased with ourselves.

Yep definitely that one, never experienced a feeling like after a football match. After that, similar to Philip, it would probably be nicking a goal in one of the three consecutive 0-0 draws we had at the end of the season in 1981 when under Howard Kendall we failed to get a second successive promotion to the top flight on goal difference.

Maybe if he was going to be here for the remainder of the season, but if he's definitely moving in January it's surely better to give players who are actually going to be here more time to develelop an understanding. How committed is he really going to be going into challenges as well?

The reviews were excellent when they started and are getting better and better Bob, hope they carry on for a while yet. Why are you thinking of stopping, are you eloping with your Oriental bride to be with shoulders like a navvy?

Spot on quote from a chap called Simon Smith in the LT's fans jury today "the man who I think looks in the mirror and sees Franz Beckenbaur while the rest of us see a reasonably competent right back"

It was always going to be a a coin flip in summer whether to take 2m for him or keep him in the hope he would play out the season. As it looks like he's leaving in January anyway, he's now injured and we only got nine or ten decent games out of him before he seemingly lost interest in the three games prior to injury I would say it clearly backfired. Unless we still get 2m in the transfer window which I can't see happening. It was a very marginal decision in the summer though. Less tax though - hardly worth having.

In this instance can't see it would make any difference at all to his value because of the contract situation. We'll get a million in January or nothing in summer.

True to an extent Gordon, but what's really better, - Neill earning 30k p.w here and commanding a regular starting slot or 40k p.w. somewhere else and never seeing the light of day again? (as will almost certainly happen if he goes to Liverpool) Either way with the benefit of hindsight making him captain and trying to make him feel even more important than he already obviously thinks he is backfired on us big time, sticking him in the reserves in August might have been the better option.

Interesting to see the near unanimous consensus is "too good to go down". That might prove to be the case eventually but I'm surprised that many people don't even consider us to be part of the relegation mix up. That goes without saying, after one third of the season we're fourth from bottom , three points above the drop zone, having gained one point per game. If that form is replicated in the remaining two thirds of the season it will be touch and go if we survive. The importance of winning against Fulham can't be understated, Watford play Sheff Utd tonight and the Blades play Charlton at the weekend so the teams below us are bound to pick up some points over the next few days.

The attendance won't be great SG but there'll surely be more than one there! Who cares how many there are there, as philip says it's an absolute must win three points. The players have to start displaying a win at all costs mentality.

Admirable optimism but I hope the management and players aren't treating our situation that lightly.

--> QUOTE(Ste B @ Nov 21 2006, 12:49 ) 461570[/snapback] Part of the BRISA remit is to provide a way of providing dialog between the fans and the club. The FF did that, but suffered from a lack of being open with what was discussed. BRISA has to be careful not to fall into that trap, as imho its suffering from keeping too much behind closed doors. Let's be fair about this if the Fans Forum has failed in recent months it's for no other reason than the family problems suffered by the Forum chairman. As for BRISA I went along on Monday expecting there to be a huge turnout and there were I think six people other than myself present. So it could fairly be said that both organisations are struggling at the moment. As for the motives of the people concerned in both organisations I don't think you can get beyond the fact it's a load of fans giving up their free time to try and help the club. People are doing it for the right reasons in the first instance but they also need more help from everyone else in terms of involvement.

............courtesy of Newcastle's 1-0 victory over Portsmouth. Thing is, Savage apart, do we have enough players willing to roll their sleeves up and battle their way out of trouble?

Great great result, but another poor performance. Friedel did what he had to do in goal and of the outfield players Ooijer and Gray played with great courage and spirit but no-one else can look back on their performance with any fondness. Emerton - just about ok. Zurab - absolute nightmare, never put a foot right and a case of "After you Maude" in the penalty area Tugay - never got in the game Savage - ditto until the last 15 mins. Bentley - very poor game MGP - the guy has a broken rib, withdraw him til he's fit. Nonda - encouraging workrate but lack of quality when it mattered i.e. the free header he should have buried in the first half. MCCarthy - pathetic -spent the whole game being caught offside. Great Kudos due to Hughes and his team for our European accomplishment but there was little in tonight's performance to suggest an immediate upturn in League form.

Let's not pretend it's just us - look at the gates for the other 2 televised games over the weekend. City v Fulham - 35776 - about 11,000 or roughly 25% down on the 46,000 they were getting. About the same as us. Wigan v Villa 18455 It's so easy to watch virtually every game live on TV at the moment I think most clubs are going to have to start taking a hit on their gate revenue in exchange for the increased TV wonga.

Agreed. Of all teams United were denied a stonewall penalty on the stroke of half time last week when Saha was bundled over from behind. I'm sure the RFW would have had plenty to say about it had they not gone on to win.

In hard cash terms the Trust are currently injecting 3m a year into the club not 6m. This has been the case for quite a few seasons now and was originally intended to equate to a full stadium when attendances were averaging 24-25000 under Souness. As gates have dropped the injection from the Trust has remained constant at the same 3m. Not a criticism, just an observation of fact. If you're talking about overall investment being greater than 3m p.a. due to concessions such as loans being written off etc then that probably bumps the figure up substantially but it's difficult to put a precise value on that..

I can't actually see us having any joy with an appeal because there was contact, it was a foul, and if Tugay was the last man (I wasn't at an angle to be able to see that) it was technically the correct decision. Although I think in this particular instance the ref should certainly have used his discretion and not sent him off.

If you remember that's more or less exactly what Graham Poll admitted in the "big club bias" thread I started. Although I didn't think we were particularly hard done by yesterday, I thought the handball given against Ooijer away at Villa Park was ridiculous. The clearest example I can think of is the Carling Cup semi against the red scum at the theatre of merchandising the other year. Two absolutely identical "handballs" neither of which were penalties in a month of Sundays. The one against Zurab, ref couldn't blow fast enough. The one against Rio, ref never even looked twice. Ref's name errrrrrrrrrrrrrrr..................... Graham Poll.

I'm only in favour of cameras on the goal line for "Was the ball over or not" type decisions. Otherwise you'd be stopping the game at every opportunity and imo it would completely kill off the rhythm, flow and passion of the match. We didn't quite get the rub of the green with the decisions yesterday but our problems are more down to our own deficiencies in midfield and attack than poor officiating. Worryingly Sparky is starting to sound a bit like Souness, whinging about officials all the time. I guess when he gets round to using the phrase "We were mugged by lady luck" it's really time to start worrying.

Not saying Gray's a better player than Neill or vice versa, just said Gray played well. However if Neill is in fact off in January (something only Hughes will know) there's surely little point in him playing for us again. We won't particularly miss him if, and admittedly it's a big if, Gray can reproduce that form week in week out.

No, Neill has made it plain that he doesn't want to play for us and his last few performances have reflected that. The sooner that particular saga is over the better. Thankfully it may only be another few weeks. If anyone still wants him.