I dont see why suggestions that hes lost the dressing room need to be made to be honest. I personally dont see that but managers are always judged on results and his arent good enough to suggest any signs of improvement and thats enough for me to know that he needs to be removed.

Moving Mowbray upstairs would surely be massively counter productive even if he was willing to swallow his pride and agree to it. We are stagnant and starting to regress, we need a new voice and new ideas. We dont need the old manager lingering upstairs getting in the way. His recruitment has been mixed at best, some undoubted huge successes, some expensive curiosities, a lorry load of signings who have contributed very little, and the repeated negligence towards the same issue in an inbalanced squad.

I think the opposite on Dack, I wonder if he regrets signing a new deal. He has had 2 sub appearances following 12 months out, one in which he made an obvious difference, yesterday he didnt but the side had lost all structure and he was simply being bypassed. He is still a very capable Championship player and a key player for us. Regarding players getting goals "if their only job is shoot," if it was that simple surely every team would have a prolific goalscorer?

I think surely the penny has dropped as we lay in 14th with more losses than wins at the turn of the year, that we are not in contention for promotion this season?

Armstrong is undoubtedly in a poor run of form, scoring only 1 in 7. He is still however the second top scorer in the league, one behind the first, and 4 ahead of the third. There are no credible alternatives that would potentially justify dropping a player with such a goal return. Dont confuse that with thinking that his performance level recently has been anything other than poor, it hasnt, but even the most prolific strikers have lean patches. Bringing in a kid for him (Butterworth) who has 2 sub appearances in a Rovers shirt in total, for the second top scorer in the league? Crazy. He was our only real threat last night though and we are far too reliant on him. He has never really been a player to take players on although he very much did when creating our main chance last night that fell back to him to bring a superb save from Schofield in the first half, with a brilliant bit of individuality in the build up. His direct play also led to the goal. He also showed signs of unselfishness, early on he slid in Elliott when he could have shot himself and again he dummied the ball for Elliott to shoot a little later when he could have shot himself. What did Rothwell do, what did Brereton do and what did Elliott do all game? Nothing. I find your repeated criticism of him a little strange I must say. He is not in good form at the moment but if his inclusion in the team is a major problem then my god do we have some serious problems. That is before you entertain ridiculous conspiracy theories about causing unrest in the dressing room for taking a few too many shots on!

Absolute shite yet again. Not even desperately ineffective but incredibly dull and poorly drilled. The season is essentially over before the turn of the year, miles off the pace, in the bottom half and going backwards. The negligence of the defence is unforgivable. We suffered last year and hes replaced a loanee who regularly played with a solitary recruit made out of glass. No hard luck story there, we are underresourced. Chuck in a loanee at left back who has been so bad that weve reverted back to the hapless Bell and it is little wonder that Rovers and a clean sheet are alien to each other. His subs in games are totally bizarre. On what planet would you ever put John Buckley on the pitch chasing a game but especially at right back, baffling. He just chucks on strikers without any real plan and it meant that Dack barely had a kick. Nonsense about injuries or other general excuses culminating in "give him the rest of the season" as if theres even a remote possibility of getting close to the top 6 rather than a second successive season of not even being competitive in attempting to reach our target may still arise but surely there isnt anyone who genuinely still believes he should stay on ie that there is still a chance and that we are progressing rather than stagnating?

Dont think he has been selfish tonight to be fair. Had the chance as a result of his run that saw a great save, missed that difficult but presentable chance at the near post and played a brilliant ball to Elliott early on, as well as dummying one for Elliott to shoot over. It is damning though, others need to step up. Elliott, Brereton, Rothwell and Holtby all totally ineffective.

Armstrong is our only threat, he is obviously going through a dry spell but hes still our only real threat. His run before that brilliant save was superb, as was his unselfish pass to Elliott who has been ineffective, as has Brereton and Rothwell. Midfield has been very quiet again and they are targetting our left side having noticed our weakness. Very dull game really.

I dont think that sacking a manager 4 years in can be referred to as the "trigger approach" and indeed I think as highlighted last time we went down, it took more than an inept appointment to cause it, of which even the current rabble would struggle to get someone on Coyle's level. If we was going to roll the dice with the manager a year down the line following an embargo and a lorry load of cheap replacements for Armstrong, Dack etc making up the squad, then maybe there would be more risk.

Douglas deserves to be dropped but equally, Bell is no better so I am no more confident even with him being dropped. Not sure about the balance of the midfield with Trybull in, not convinced by the box midfield nonsense and am unsure why Downing is not seemingly in the managers thoughts for a start. Glad to see Brereton in for Gallagher though, much needed.

For that amount, who do you have in mind? Bare in mind that if we managed to hoodwink another club into signing Gallagher at a profit, it would be the second time that a club has paid a foolishly large amount. If the reasoning is that he isnt worth that amount but other teams have made illogical purchases too so you never know, it seems a bit far fetched.

I never said that. If the mindset is that we expect the next appointment to be Coyle-esque then we may as well give up completely. Keeping Mowbray is surely only delaying the inevitable? As I explained, the risk v reward comment was mainly surrounding what I feel is an exaggerated sense of what could happen if the next managerial choice is wrong. Coyle who was a particular bad appointment that we would struggle to match his ineptitude wasnt the sole reason for our relegation, it was a culmination of a 2 year spell in which we had hit a transfer embargo and sold all of our best players. Even if we did appoint a poor replacement, I wouldnt suspect much immediate danger because our squad is much better than a fair few in this league to stay up. Conversely, a good appointment and it isnt that far away to have a genuine promotion push, maybe much of the foundations are there, but the manager seems over a long period unable to push past that point. There is nothing to suggest that in the last 18 months under Mowbray, we have been going on an upward trajectory. This notion of our best players all coming back and saving the day just has always seemed desperate and tenous to me, in this season, as they come back more injuries will happen. We have recently played plenty of teams with equal or worse injury problems, tonight Huddersfield are without 8 or 9 including their main defender in Schindler and their main attacking threat this season in Koroma. Hes had enough time up until now and indeed the mitigating circumstances of bad injuries are across the board to the extent that any idea that we will ever judge Mowbray on a fully fit first 11 is unreasonable. I still dont get why a team underperforming on its own public top 6 target would have to be in a relegation scrap to "not be working out."

I dont see much of a market for a 25 year old striker (probably past the point of buying "potential") who has never set the world alight, who I cant see past Wycombe for teams in our League for whom he would get in the team of. Certainly not at 5m+.

I dont really get why a manager who had publically declared an intention to get into the top 6 18 months ago would only be "not working out" in your opinion should he be in a relegation battle, surely not working out would indicate an inability to meet expectations? If a manager of a title challenger failed to keep a side in title contention, would that not warrant dismissal as long as it didnt lead to a relegation scrap? We havent been in genuine contention throughout that time, even this season when further resources and time have been afforded to Mowbray, we simply cant smash that glass ceiling. I have never been fond of the "what if we get another Coyle" argument because if that is the case, holding off from sacking a manager out of fear of disaster is merely kicking the can down the line. But it wasnt just appointing an inept manager, one who had no interests in team shape and with a horrendous recent CV, with the added issue of splitting the fan base due to history with Burnley that relegated us. It all started 2 years before relegation, a sale of key assets (Cairney, Gestede then Rhodes 6 months later and Hanley and Duffy 12 months later) replaced under embargo by crap we could piece together for 10k or less a week, Guthrie, Delfoenso etc, it can be easy to overestimate our vulnerability to potential disaster should Mowbray be removed. Last time, it took a fire sale, a transfer embargo and a particularly inept and divisive managerial appointment, even if we made a poor managerial choice, which I can understand a fear of, it would take a lot to put us in serious danger of relegation, whereas the gap is less to the top 6. The balance of risk v reward seems in our favour.

I dont see what there is to suggest that we could ever receive 5m+ plus for Gallagher, plus coverage of a very competitive wage. His problem is that he is nowhere near good enough for us to justify remodelling our team around to get the best from. Armstrong and Dack are because they keep getting the goals. His best spell was in a 2 under Coyle whose side was very attacking (costing us even more goals than we concede now) and even then, in what was his best season ever (and hes certainly not a kid) he registered a 1 in 4, bog standard goal return, nothing remarkable. Best bet IMO is as you say dont play him wide as it doesnt do him any favours, but just as a second striker off the bench, but even then, does he have the attributes and do we have the right service to play him as a target man? Probably not on both counts. Strange and incredibly lazy signing. His problem is that he has never managed to address the left back position, neither of the left backs at the club will be capable of doing that.

Great post. The main defence of Mowbray seems to be underpinned by an assumption based on little if any evidence that this current style will naturally level out at a top 6 (well we need to pick up points at a rate beyond a top 6 level) to enable us to compete.

Again, Waggott's decision making is at the expense of the hardcore. I feel as annoyed at myself in that I will buy the game anyway regardless of continued shoddy treatment which makes me a mug. Yes, I get that there may be a portion of blame on the EFL but the club could have paid that on themselves rather than deferring a refund onto next year.

The specific changes made this season certainly havent increased our chances of winning so far.

Why will the style help us win games going forward? Just seems like illogical hope in the face of all logic that it will all click, that we will go on a run, that we could get into the top 6 all of a sudden. The style despite us improving the personnel (Kaminski and Elliott) hasnt improved results. End of.

What justification do you have that we have progressed? We are on 29 points from 21 games, 2 and 1 less than at the same point in the last 2 years, and we are 7 points off the play offs compared to 3 and 6 at the same stage in the last 2 years. Why are we better? How have we progressed? The results dont back up your statement. I specifically said that Cook wouldnt be my choice but to call him a Dingle and dismiss him through that is incredibly childish.

You have taken my point out of context. I meant that opinions on social media will do nothing to put pressure on the manager, the main avenue to which that would be done would be at games which is obviously not possible at the moment. And I dont think Mowbray is divisive enough or doing a bad enough job to receive too much stick even if we was. The same on here. Doesnt mean that any of those opinions are pointless or invalid. Ultimately you are cleverly dodging nailing your colours to the mast because you know that if you expect a certain achievement this season and we fail to achieve it, come the summer you would have no ability to then say that Mowbray deserves another season regardless. Do you agree that we havent progressed this year compared to last, as the league table will testify? As others have commented, your comments about Cook are childish and make you become a bit of a laughing stock, Cook wouldnt necessarily be top of my list (if I had one) but to discount a manager because he used to "be a Dingle" is a bit pathetic.

Brereton would be first pick on the left I would agree. I would fear that Rothwell would be too attacking to be in the 2 and it may be more suited to a Trybull or more likely a Johnson to give us more protection.

Im not too sure that social media reactions are relevant at all to be honest. The only way that any genuine pressure/dismay can be portrayed is at games and with matches behind closed doors that is not a thing at the moment, and even if it was, I doubt that there wouls be much. Ultimately the decision rests with negligent owners and a CEO is between who is a pal of Mowbray from a previous club, so I suspect that coming to a strategic decision that we are stagnating or not meeting expectations is quite simply not going to happen.

I think there are 4 of the front 6 that definitely are in our best side, and the only formation that fits them all in their best position is 4-2-3-1, Armstrongs goal tally since playing up front is unquestionable, Dack has consistently produced in a Rovers shirt as a number 10, Elliott has been fantastic coming in from the right (yet ineffective when Mowbrays typical meddling has moved Elliott into central midfield or as a false 9) and Travis is a beacon of consistency in the central. As far as im concerned, them 4 are on another level to Johnson, Brereton, Rothwell, Holtby, Trybull, Gallagher and an ageing Downing in regards to consistency and effectiveness. As far as I am concerned, the balance of the team would be crucial in filling those spare spaces in CM and wide left. The 4-3-3 certainly has not gained a points yield anywhere near high enough to warrant it our unquestionable formation, there are more questions than answers.

Whilst I appreciate that you dont want the manager out at the moment, does it worry you at all that in spite of the obvious personnel improvements (mainly Kaminski and Elliott) and the new style (death by a thousand passes) that we are picking up points at a rate that is unfavourable even compared to last seasons mediocrity, in which there was a public admittance that we had failed on our target? Or is there no gauge of progress in your mind until the season is over? What are the parameters for you in regards to Mowbrays position come the summer? Would only promotion suffice? Would a top 6 finish regardless of what happens after that suffice? Would we have to only finish higher than 11th for you to be content?