Yes but "grinding out results" suggests your team is in control. In those games we were not in control, we were lucky to edged the game with fortunate goals. We have a serious problem in that it is now very very obvious how to make our tactical system stop working. All the opposition need to do is play3 at the back, pack midfield, be aggressive and be direct. Even the most modest teams can play that way. We need an alternative to our current system desperately. We are not going to get promoted just playing the same way over and over and praying for fortuitous goals to get us out of jail.

Yes, they were completely in the driving seat until they sat deep. Very odd from them. Their fans must be devastated.

Never seen a game we won that we should have lost more. The squads good, but we have some deep tactical issues to sort out. We can't keep trotting out 433 against a back three and playing terrible over and over and over again.

Lol

Rotherham are stupidly sitting deep and we are able to play the game we want...

Just made us a goal...

We should be 3-0 down!

Also what is going on with the pitch? It looks horrendous.

I think we'd probably need to lose two or three on the trot after this one for Mowbray to go.

We're just tactically way too one dimensional.... We are swapping players around but the system is the same.

Horrendous...

Reckon Bell coming in will improve us. Rothwell off will make us worse..

This has fallen into exactly the same pattern as we have experienced whenever we play against 3 at the back. We lose all the space and dynanism that we have against a back 4. We just don't create chances. Really thought we would have a plan B... We need an extra midfielder on the pitch and get wider. Front three are currently totally isolated, midfield overwhelmed.

Oh Mercer Mercer Mercer Mercer. I bet you drive your family up the wall!

Have to win this one or it begins to feel like the wheels have fallen off. Bad news for us is they can play 3 at the back so will surely do that as they did against Bristol City. We really struggle when that happens. What's worrying is all the teams between now and Birmingham (6 games total) can play 3 at the back.... I personally don't think we can just play 433 and hope we can bulldoze through. We need a plan B desperately as we will definitely need it in that run, maybe as soon as Wednesday. I'd change up to 343 for the start of the game with the option to switch to 433 mid game if required. I think we need to get some time in a new system under our belt against a supposedly weaker team. Kaminski Lenihan. Ayala. Williams Nyambe. Johnson. Rothwell. Downing Elliott. Armstrong. Dolan.

For me Ayala, Williams, Lenihan, Nyambe are all good defenders.

I would say all we need immediately is a left back who can defend. If somehow we could find someone who is guaranteed to score goals I wouldn't say no either. But we have all the tools really to get into top six. It's not a recruitment issue.

And I think all those managers would look at the squad and think they could make playoffs with a couple of new additions. A proactive chairman and owners would be getting the contingency plans lined up in the background ready to trigger start of Jan if required. But as others have said we don't have those sorts of owners or chairman.

With the squad we have we should be at least six points higher up the table than we are. I think there's little doubt about that. Every one of our first team players top championship sides would be interested in, maybe Gallagher and Williams aside. Mowbray deserves credit for assembling the squad, but we should be safely in the top six with it. If he can't do it we need a to be looking at a change in Jan.

Douglas has provided excellent set piece delivery but has been defensively abject. Gallagher isn't working, Johnson is struggling and getting closed down. Can't agree with ifollows assessment it's harsh. It's been an even game in midfield but the best chances by far have fallen to Norwich. We are lucky it's only 1-0. Should really be 2 or 3 to them. So what do we change? For me Bell, Davenport, Dolan on. Gallagher, Johnson, Douglas off.

I think we will be much more competitive in midfield with three across the back and four across midfield than the other way around personally. The extra body in the middle means you can compete in numbers and get wider. With three across the middle it's great when youre on the front foot and the fullbacks pushing up, but when the oppo have you on the back foot the central midfielders look narrow and isolated with few options on. Anyway it's about picking your battles. Seems to me : Games good for 343 - when you've got decent opposition playing 3 at the back themselves and playing tight looking to frustrate you. Games good for 433 - when oppo is relatively open and play four at the back, or teams you think you can steamroller no matter how they play.

Not for me personally, I think Rothwell is at his best picking up the ball deep and central and running at the heart of the defence. He's absolutely outstanding at that. Can taken 3 or 4 players out in a single run. Out wide or up front he doesn't get the opportunity to do that.

For me Lenihan is our best defender by some way, it's born out in the stats on our win %. I mean we just had our first loss in 7 without him in the team…. Hes quick, good in the air, physical. Is not the best distribution wise but okay. Positioning not great but better than Williams. Only area I would say Williams is better than him is on distribution. Ayala seems to offer much better positioning but does lack pace like Williams…. Personally I can see milage in the back three with Williams left, Lenihan right and Ayala anchoring. Will free Nyambe and Douglas to get really far forward and provide a lot of width against teams that pack the centre of the pitch and frustrate the 433. We keep the front three so no change there. All we really lose is one out of Holtby/Johnson/Rothwell which if it's a game where they don't get any space anyway I think is okay. If we can get to a point where we can pretty fluidly change from 433 to 343 and be comfortable in both formations, maybe even change in game as required we will be a much more challenging proposition for other teams as they won't be sure how we will play and how to nullify us.

Aren't we the highest scoring for this many games into the season since we won the Prem? But I guess your point is Armstrong scores the lion share.

I can see by he has been reticent to change. We have a new system in 433 and against back fours it has worked very well. I can see that he wanted to give it a a fair crack and see if it works against a back 3 over time as we adapt. While we plainly really struggled against Barnsley and Millwall we did quite fortuitously win both games. He recognised the problem though. Think he would maybe have changed to a back 3 against Bristol City but with Lenihan out couldn't do it as Sharp said. It's tough one as while we have clearly struggled against back 3s it's not like we are getting beat off the park. We could have won Bristol City as it was an incredibly tight game. So it's not a crisis, more of an ongoing issue. There is always the risk when you change the system you end up going backwards, you never know. But I think Stoke will be the time to try something new as we are not on a trajectory to top six at the moment. I think we need 2 systems. It's really remarkable when you go through Whoscored how flexible teams are and are able to play multiple different ways. We are a bit one dimensional and not quite good enough to steamroller decent teams. Need to be smarter.